Ask the devs : Physics

[bonannogiovanni]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

What are u guys talking bout the are many in and out **** toliet bowls and stuff in live 10. if you shooting in the hanger why should u get a lucky bounce or rattle in if you are shooting by yourself. i have 2k10 aswell and shots in practice mode go in alll net i dont see what live 10 did wrong in the area in can improve but you make it like if the ball touches the rim it misses

I'm talking about shots taken from the mid-long distance, I'd like to see a video of a long shot that touches the rim and goes in, I've tried many times both in game and practise mode but to no avail, please prove me wrong. Like I said before, Reanimator has given me hope for eleven anyway.....

[ParisB]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I'm talking about shots taken from the mid-long distance, I'd like to see a video of a long shot that touches the rim and goes in, I've tried many times both in game and practise mode but to no avail, please prove me wrong. Like I said before, Reanimator has given me hope for eleven anyway.....

especially the back rim

swishes should be rewarded on perfect releases and aim, but most shots in the NBA hit the back rim.

[FearlessKaz]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Hey rEAnimator,

On the subject of rim/net/ interactions, do you guys think you can look into getting rid of the net flipping straight up and out of the rim after a swish?

It looks really weird.

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I can't speak to what it was like in Live 10, I was simply responding to the question and explaining how it is currently in Elite.

I'd be surprised if there were no in/out's in Live 10, but that's not really relevant to the conversation.

The fact is, they are in Elite but in a much more natural way as the shot physics are a direct response to the user's input.

So is this aspect scripted in a way or did you give the rim and ball certain physical attributes to calculate with each other once they touch?

What is the programming difficulty level of making a 100% authentic ball rim interaction in video games out of curiosity?

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

So is this aspect scripted in a way or did you give the rim and ball certain physical attributes to calculate with each other once they touch?

What is the programming difficulty level of making a 100% authentic ball rim interaction in video games out of curiosity?

Not scripted at all. There is a physical model for the ball and the rim, and they interact using the physics simulation.

By 100% authentic do you mean 100% accurate? The words can be interpreted different ways.

Making a 100% accurate physical model is quite difficult. The hard part is that a ball is a soft body, and doing proper soft body collisions is quite expensive.

But we can make believable approximation, and there are different levels of quality within that approximation.

I don't think what we have in Elite (or Live for that matter) is really all that bad. I think it is a good representation of authentic ball/rim interaction.

It could always be improved upon of course, but given the complete lack of true player physics in Live, that's where we put our focus this year.

I hope people unerstand and agree with the choice we made, and appreciate the results when they get their hands on it.

[RayDog253]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Hey rEAnimator,

On the subject of rim/net/ interactions, do you guys think you can look into getting rid of the net flipping straight up and out of the rim after a swish?

It looks really weird.

This, I also dislike the way the net pops straight up.

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Not scripted at all. There is a physical model for the ball and the rim, and they interact using the physics simulation.

By 100% authentic do you mean 100% accurate? The words can be interpreted different ways.

Making a 100% accurate physical model is quite difficult. The hard part is that a ball is a soft body, and doing proper soft body collisions is quite expensive.

But we can make believable approximation, and there are different levels of quality within that approximation.

I don't think what we have in Elite (or Live for that matter) is really all that bad. I think it is a good representation of authentic ball/rim interaction.

It could always be improved upon of course, but given the complete lack of true player physics in Live, that's where we put our focus this year.

I hope people unerstand and agree with the choice we made, and appreciate the results when they get their hands on it.

Sorry I meant accurate, so the soft body budget is what's keeping it from 100%, makes sense Hopefully it gets cheaper in the future.

I am looking forward to seeing how it was implemented this year, I'd be remiss to not admit that Live 10 really had it on arcade mode with the ball/rim physics. I saw the same bounces over and over again, even with different shot angles/distances.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Sorry I meant accurate, so the soft body budget is what's keeping it from 100%, makes sense Hopefully it gets cheaper in the future.

I am looking forward to seeing how it was implemented this year, I'd be remiss to not admit that Live 10 really had it on arcade mode with the ball/rim physics. I saw the same bounces over and over again, even with different shot angles/distances.

Although we didn't change the physics system for ball/rim, I really think we've improved in this area simply by allowing more variation through the user control.

You'll be the judge when you try the demo.

[loadleft]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Although we didn't change the physics system for ball/rim, I really think we've improved in this area simply by allowing more variation through the user control.

You'll be the judge when you try the demo.

Are you saying that you didn't fix the way the ball comes off the rim and/or backboard when shots are missed? I thought I read or was told that now rebounds actually come off as they would in real life (or close to it) instead of them all just falling in front of the basket regardless of how hard the ball hit the rim. In Live 10 there was never any long rebounds and it seemed the ball came off the rim in a direction predetermined to be the direction of the person the CPU had decided would receive the rebound. You'd see the ball hit the basket and come off at angles that aren't possible in real life.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Are you saying that you didn't fix the way the ball comes off the rim and/or backboard when shots are missed? I thought I read or was told that now rebounds actually come off as they would in real life (or close to it) instead of them all just falling in front of the basket regardless of how hard the ball hit the rim. In Live 10 there was never any long rebounds and it seemed the ball came off the rim in a direction predetermined to be the direction of the person the CPU had decided would receive the rebound. You'd see the ball hit the basket and come off at angles that aren't possible in real life.

I don't know much about how the ball reacted in Live 10, but I do know that we have not changed the underlying ball physics and rim interaction, and I do see long rebounds in Elite. That could be a result of the variety in shots that you see now.

And I can say with 100% certainty that the direction the ball comes off the rim is determined 100% by physics and is in no way influenced by the players on the court.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I had a thought last night in regards to Rebounding.

Is it possible to include animations that pull out of these animations early on failed attempts and incorrect scenarios?

Currently in Live 10 when you press rebound either very far away from the ball or as a shot is about to go in, the player continues through a successful rebound catch animation which looks quite silly. Could you possibly add an animation (and variations of it) that is a player pulling back from attempting to jump from a rebound? You know, when you're getting ready for a rebound and start to gather, but then you don't actually jump, or kind of half jump when you realizes the ball bounces the other side of the rim?

The result would be the same with the animation temporarily taking you out of the play, but the animation result would be more suitable.

Same idea could work for blocks, put backs or any other off ball gather scenario.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I had a thought last night in regards to Rebounding.

Is it possible to include animations that pull out of these animations early on failed attempts and incorrect scenarios?

Currently in Live 10 when you press rebound either very far away from the ball or as a shot is about to go in, the player continues through a successful rebound catch animation which looks quite silly. Could you possibly add an animation (and variations of it) that is a player pulling back from attempting to jump from a rebound? You know, when you're getting ready for a rebound and start to gather, but then you don't actually jump, or kind of half jump when you realizes the ball bounces the other side of the rim?

The result would be the same with the animation temporarily taking you out of the play, but the animation result would be more suitable.

Same idea could work for blocks, put backs or any other off ball gather scenario.

I just tested this to make sure I'm right...

In this years game, because we're layering on the upper body animation, when the rebounder jumps, he'll jump with an upper body pose that has the hands up anticipating the ball (and tracking it where appropriate).

It isn't until he's ready to reach out and grab the ball that he plays that
animation.

If he ends up being out of position, mistiming his jump, or having the ball taken by someone else, he will transition his upper body to a natural "land without the ball" type animation.

The benefits of this are that the outcome isn't predetermined when the animation starts (which is huge for gameplay) and it also looks more natural in cases where he misses the ball, as you described.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I just tested this to make sure I'm right...

In this years game, because we're layering on the upper body animation, when the rebounder jumps, he'll jump with an upper body pose that has the hands up anticipating the ball (and tracking it where appropriate).

It isn't until he's ready to reach out and grab the ball that he plays that
animation.

If he ends up being out of position, mistiming his jump, or having the ball taken by someone else, he will transition his upper body to a natural "land without the ball" type animation.

The benefits of this are that the outcome isn't predetermined when the animation starts (which is huge for gameplay) and it also looks more natural in cases where he misses the ball, as you described.

That sounds like the perfect result for a mix of gameplay/visual feedback.

Any chance of the same thing being applied to Putbacks (essentially rebounds) and blocks?

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

That sounds like the perfect result for a mix of gameplay/visual feedback.

Any chance of the same thing being applied to Putbacks (essentially rebounds) and blocks?

Blocks work that way already, and actually share much of the same tech as the rebounding system.

technically speaking putbacks don't work this way, but you shouldn't really notice that when playing the game. Basically failed putbacks are just basically rebounds, so they use all the same tech.

A successful putback that has the ball knocked away before the catch point will still play out the rest of the animation but it doesn't look as bad as the rebound case you mentioned because the ball would be out of their hands either way.

We'll improve that aspect next year, but I think you'll be happy with what we have to offer.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

Sounds very good. I'm pleasantly surprised about how this works this year, or at least the idea of your implimentation. See how it goes once the demo drops.

Thanks again for your feedback.