LeBron... what's your take?

[jmood88]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

Please tell me what he's won? Rookie of the Year and one All-Star MVP.

OK. And?

As much as he's been hyped, I expect his *** at least in the Conference Finals every year. I don't expect less, if folks are gonna continue to hype his *** up without the kid accomplishing anything.

He was in the running for mvp last year, all nba first team last year, and all nba second team in 2004. He's done it with a team that was crappy for years until he got there and has played more minutes than anyone in the league the past two years.

[jmood88]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

People are holding to a higher stander because--say it with me, boys and girls--of THE HYPE.

No hype, no high expectations.

MJ wasn't hype coming out of college. At least not anywhere even close to Lebron and other kids today.

Hell, Rod Thorne, who drafted MJ because he felt he was the best player left at the point (remember, this was when centers dominated the draft and two of the most coveted--Hakeem and Sam Bowie--went before MJ), felt that the Bulls had drafted a decent shooting guard, but not someone to build a franchise around.

Those were his words. And look what happened.

MJ exceeded all expectations, dominated the League, brought multiple championships to the Bulls, and became a global icon.

See, that's how you do it. Win first.

What do MJ, Ali and Tiger all have in common as global icons?

Winning. And winning big. Rising up to the challenge time and time again. And influencing the game they played.

SO it's a problem if someone wants to be an icon? He didn't say that was what he is(even though he's on his way to it) but it's what one of his goals is. And he has been winning with the cavs, who aren't anywhere near a good team right now. He was 18 coming into the league and he has carried them since he came in. Tell me how he hasn't lived up to his hype. The Cavs were awful before he got their and he immediately made them a contender. He can't do everything by himself.

[jmood88]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

Sorry, brah, but Bron did hype himself up. "King James", "Chosen One" tatoo. If that ain't hype, I don't know what is.

The media started calling him that.

[P2K]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

People are holding to a higher stander because--say it with me, boys and girls--of THE HYPE.

No hype, no high expectations.

MJ wasn't hype coming out of college. At least not anywhere even close to Lebron and other kids today.

Hell, Rod Thorne, who drafted MJ because he felt he was the best player left at the point (remember, this was when centers dominated the draft and two of the most coveted--Hakeem and Sam Bowie--went before MJ), felt that the Bulls had drafted a decent shooting guard, but not someone to build a franchise around.

Those were his words. And look what happened.

MJ exceeded all expectations, dominated the League, brought multiple championships to the Bulls, and became a global icon.

See, that's how you do it. Win first.

What do MJ, Ali and Tiger all have in common as global icons?

Winning. And winning big. Rising up to the challenge time and time again. And influencing the game they played.

Whoa fam...wait a minute.

MJ wasn't as hyped as LeBron because of media coverage back then. Today, there are cameras, camera phones, camcorders, internet, websites, so on and so forth.

And also, Jordan was Mr. Hype before he won a damn thing. The Nike commercials and his kicks all over the place. C'mon now.

[SPTO]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

I dunno MJ was pretty damned hyped up. I had an NBA productions video from I think 1988 and they made Jordan out to be a God in the flesh and this was before he won a ring! While the media hype wasn't as consistent as far as being in your face all the time I think the hype Jordan got was actually stronger.

On to the topic at hand...It's clear that the last year and a half or so Lebron has been playing so much basketball and at such an intense level that it's only natural for the guy to have tired legs and coast as much as he can. He's still a great star for the NBA to market because he seems pretty clean cut and has a good image.

Actually, the strange thing was this whole ASW Kobe was the main man and the main focus of the NBA hype in Vegas. I found that to be quite interesting. I'm not against it because Lebron needs to step away from the spotlight as much as he can and try to make his play on the court matter more. I hope that he doesn't play any competitive basketball over the summer because it's really affecting his play in the NBA when he's basically the sole consistent weapon the Cavs have.

[blackceasar]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

Whoa fam...wait a minute.

MJ wasn't as hyped as LeBron because of media coverage back then. Today, there are cameras, camera phones, camcorders, internet, websites, so on and so forth.

And also, Jordan was Mr. Hype before he won a damn thing. The Nike commercials and his kicks all over the place. C'mon now.

Air doesnt understand. Jordan was hyped as much as you COULD hype a player back then, pre-internet, 5 different 24 hour sports channels, 600 cable stations, 50 NBA games aired every night and on top of that since I have relevant experience in marketing, companies were not spending the kind of money when MJ was 23 and 24 on advertising and TV and marketing the way they do now. Times change. Had MJ come out of UNC last year and into the league he would be just as hyped up as Lebron, and people would be on this board saying "well he hasnt done anything yet...look at Magic and Bird, you cant even begin to compare him to those types of players".

What Air needs to understand is that those players were great and thier time on the court has passed and the more years that pass the greater thier legacy becomes just as when Shaq (who's arguably the most dominat big man in the past 25 years), his legacy as a player will be 10 times larager when hes 50 and retired than it will be when hes 2 years removed from playing in the league.

Think about when the big O and dr J and those dudes back Pre bird and jordan...there were people back then saying "you will never see anything close to those types of players, ever" Then MJ , Magic, and Bird came into the league and changed that.. and just as people say that bout MJ and today, years down the road be it 10 , 20, or 50 years, there will be someone to surpass him. Air needs to stop holding onto players that he actually got to grow up watching because that time is going to pass. The torch always gets passed. The problem is that with so much media coverage today, 2 years in with a new player and we think thats who the torch is going to next then we find out its not ( Harold Miner, Penny Hardaway..who Jordan himself said he saw the torch being passed to, etc)

Air just wants to believe that there will never be someone that will wind up greater than Jordan and to think that will NEVER happen is just dumb. Might not happen for another 50-100 years, but it will happen sooner or later. The torch ALWAYS gets passed.

And putting the man's personality and personal life aside, if the torch is or was to be passed to someone in the league right now today it would be Kobe and not Lebron. Lebron is great, and is only going to get better..but Kobe is as close as youre going to see to a second coming of MJ as far as whos in the league right now. There is a killer instinct that Kobe has that sets him apart from the rest of the league and its what set MJ apart from the rest of the league in his time. However what Lebron has done in the league so far (regarless of how little Air thinks it is) is more impressive to me than what MJ or Kobe had done before the age of 25 in the league. Lebron has had FAR less around him to make things happen. MJ had Phil, Scottie, and a triangle offense that is unstoppable... Kobe had Phil and Shaq. Lebron has Lebron. There is nothing special or unique about anything else with that Cavs team.

[NovaStar]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

I think what Air23 is saying is that Jordan wasn't hyped until he started showing what his talent/skill level was. He had no hype(very little) coming out of college. He earned his hype, so if he earned the hype is it really hype at all, but rather recognition? There was no talk of Jordan being the greatest ball player ever until he started winning, remember there was a question if Jordan was even better than Dr. J back then, surely those comparisons stopped after he started to win. He was marketed after he started showing is air jordan skillz, his ability to dunk and drop numbers.

LJ has received hype(not all of his own doing) because he has yet to really do anything major in the NBA(not saying that he won't). Dwayne Wade wasn't hyped coming out of college, yet all of the attention he receives now is like Jordan in that he has earned it based on his play on the court and his accomplishments. Is Wade hyped or recognized? Was jordan hyped or recognized. LJ to me is hyped in that although he has recognizable skill, he has yet to translate that skill to contribute to a winning(championship) team, a recognized winner.

[blackceasar]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

I think what Air23 is saying is that Jordan wasn't hyped until he started showing what his talent/skill level was. He had no hype(very little) coming out of college.

You also have to factor money in with this. The money companies like Nike, etc spend today on marketing and adverstising is well over 10 times what they were spending back then. With huge blow out of cable and satelite TV, internet, etc and more kids having more of thier own money to spend today compared to back then, Lebron was a product in himself even while he was in high school. To make money you have to sell stuff, to sell stuff u have to create demand, to create demand you have to get a buzz going, to get a buzz going you need hype. They knew they were going to mlik the LJ hype probably about his junior year in high school... which is why the hype machine starts NOW rather than when hes 25 and "proven himself" supposedly. Why miss out on all those jersey sells, ticket sales, shoe sales, ____insert any other company product that can be sold and tied to basketball_____..why miss out on all of that now and wait until later when there was enough buzz about him at 17 to start the hype now...and lets say at 25 he turns into Harold Miner part 2 somehow and is no longer good enough to play in the NBA. So what, te companies that wanted him hyped so they could make thier money havce already made thier money off of everyone and they will just find the next young player to start it all over again.

Wade didnt get that kind of hype partially because:
1. The college he played for isnt really a big time popular school. He played at Marquette. He wasnt playing at Duke or UNC. How many nationally televised games did he play in at Marquette??

2. There was never any talks about him pre-college because college is where he improved which is why he went as high as he did in the draft. Had he came out after a year of college someone would have picked up in the the 2nd round (you cant build hype around that)

3. Why put your hype money, attention, marketing, plans, etc into Wade when Lebron is here at the same time, entering the draft in the same year??? Thats like taking 1 million dollars of your money and buying shares of say umm. IBM (good steady stock, not big return, but wont loose any money either) when you can sink it into shares of Apple on the day before the iPod is unveiled to the public for the first time??

[NovaStar]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

You also have to factor money in with this. The money companies like Nike, etc spend today on marketing and adverstising is well over 10 times what they were spending back then. With huge blow out of cable and satelite TV, internet, etc and more kids having more of thier own money to spend today compared to back then, Lebron was a product in himself even while he was in high school. To make money you have to sell stuff, to sell stuff u have to create demand, to create demand you have to get a buzz going, to get a buzz going you need hype. They knew they were going to mlik the LJ hype probably about his junior year in high school... which is why the hype machine starts NOW rather than when hes 25 and "proven himself" supposedly. Why miss out on all those jersey sells, ticket sales, shoe sales, ____insert any other company product that can be sold and tied to basketball_____..why miss out on all of that now and wait until later when there was enough buzz about him at 17 to start the hype now...and lets say at 25 he turns into Harold Miner part 2 somehow and is no longer good enough to play in the NBA. So what, te companies that wanted him hyped so they could make thier money havce already made thier money off of everyone and they will just find the next young player to start it all over again.

Wade didnt get that kind of hype partially because:
1. The college he played for isnt really a big time popular school. He played at Marquette. He wasnt playing at Duke or UNC. How many nationally televised games did he play in at Marquette??

2. There was never any talks about him pre-college because college is where he improved which is why he went as high as he did in the draft. Had he came out after a year of college someone would have picked up in the the 2nd round (you cant build hype around that)

3. Why put your hype money, attention, marketing, plans, etc into Wade when Lebron is here at the same time, entering the draft in the same year??? Thats like taking 1 million dollars of your money and buying shares of say umm. IBM (good steady stock, not big return, but wont loose any money either) when you can sink it into shares of Apple on the day before the iPod is unveiled to the public for the first time??

Damn good points BC! I have nothing to add to that. I guess the only question now is where will Lebron go inspite of the hype.

[Rocky]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

LJ has received hype(not all of his own doing) because he has yet to really do anything major in the NBA(not saying that he won't). Dwayne Wade wasn't hyped coming out of college, yet all of the attention he receives now is like Jordan in that he has earned it based on his play on the court and his accomplishments. Is Wade hyped or recognized? Was jordan hyped or recognized. LJ to me is hyped in that although he has recognizable skill, he has yet to translate that skill to contribute to a winning(championship) team, a recognized winner.

Thing is, whether anybody wants to admit it or not.......if you are a superstar in the NBA, your title hopes are only as good as your GM. Lebron is carrying that team and I mean CARRYING them to the point where if he's not on the court for one game, they suddenly find out they know how to play the game of basketball.

To me Lebron may be the next KG. So talented that he fools you into thinking he can win by himself. He can't.....nobody in the history in the game could. I don't put much blame on him for not winning. The media(NBA included) are so quick to put the emphasis on the "individual", that they blame the individual if the "team" is not very good.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

On another note, Lebron just blocked a shot at the end of the 1st quarter against Toronto to half court, holy!

[Pointguard]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

Bingo.

Oh please Air. You say LeBron hasnt done anything, that making the playoffs, getting ROY and winning an All-Star MVP means nothing and he should be int he conference finals, but then its ok that MJ only was getting to the playoffs without a supporting cast?

Guess what? LeBron's doing the same thing so far in his career with a horrible team. Forget this bs about the hype. Your using it as a way to make LBJ look bad. At the end of the day, hype means nothing. Its all about the play on the court and when you make it ok for MJ to just make the playoffs, but not LBJ, thats a complete double standard.

[HMcCoy]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

On another note, Lebron just blocked a shot at the end of the 1st quarter against Toronto to half court, holy!

That was hot. He sent that ish HARD.

[WTF]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

OMG! WHAT A FREAKIN PUTBACK BY VAREJAO!

[HMcCoy]

Re: LeBron... what's your take?

OMG! WHAT A FREAKIN PUTBACK BY VAREJAO!

Dude is averaging 15 boards in 4 games as a starter...lol....

This off season is really going to show if Gilbert is commited or not. Andy and Pav are going to both get some pretty decent sized offers.