The LeBron James Thread

[DukeC]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Isn't it usually as you get older, the farther you get pushed away from the basket? Look at Kobe, Pierce etc. Taking more jumpers than ever.

I don't see LeBron maintaining those numbers at the rim as he gets older. He'll still get his, just off of sheer talent, but yall act like he's going to be scoring at will in the paint, and that's not going to happen.

Most of those baskets at the rim come from him penetrating from the perimeter, not playing in the post. So I'm not sure where this assumption comes from that is trying to lead people to believe that he'll be the second coming of Kareem when he becomes an elder in this league. Not happening.

Lebron is a different type of player than both those two. He was never really the type for relying on iso, then jack up a deep two. He's always been about bullying his way to the rim with his speed and size letting him get away with having slightly shaky handle. If anything I see Carmelo going the way of Pierce and Kobe to be honest.

I don't know. It'd be kinda child's play for Lebron to bully his way to his spot against other Small Forwards. Also considering Lebron has great touch around the rim I wouldn't put it past him to continue averaging Center% around the rim. 76%? Nah, I could easily see 60-55% though.

[The 24th Letter]

Bron isn't Kobe or Pierce though...we honestly don't have example to go off of as far as how Bron will age, well just have to see...

[ojandpizza]

@Taj I understand exactly what you're saying..

But I doubt teams will start putting their bigger PFs on him.

Unless LeBron just starts going down hill faster than almost any other superstar ever he will still be far too athletic for those bigger guys to play him outside.

Look at Pierce at 35, you wouldn't put a bigger PF on him.. LeBron is still 7 years away from that and their athleticism comparison isn't even close.

I think most people here are saying he will take SFs or guards into the post more often as he ages.. I doubt we will see him trying to post up guys like Evans, Zebo, West, Boozer, etc on a regular basis when he could easily burn them off the dribble or from shooting outside.

[DukeC]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I've just been thinking recently, and treat this as a hypothetical, what if it turned out Lebron has been on steroids for his entire career?

What impact would that have on basketball?

[ojandpizza]

Look at a guy like Karl Malone.. The 2nd highest scorer ever..

He didnt get there by banging in the post.

For the most part Malone scored off of pick and roles and by running the floor exceptionally well for a PF.

LeBron could easily do that as he ages..

But I never really see him becoming strictly a PF anyways.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I've just been thinking recently, and treat this as a hypothetical, what if it turned out Lebron has been on steroids for his entire career?

What impact would that have on basketball?

Man... You talking about break my heart. That would be it. I would of followed his career for no reason.

[JODYE]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Obviously, Kobe and Pierce aren't the exact players LeBron is. That wasn't the point. However, both of those guys in their prime were at their best when driving to the rim.

All I'm saying, is he's not going to drastically change is game and start banging in the post.

It hasn't happened yet, and it sure isn't going to happen in 6-7 years.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

@Taj I understand exactly what you're saying..

But I doubt teams will start putting their bigger PFs on him.

Unless LeBron just starts going down hill faster than almost any other superstar ever he will still be far too athletic for those bigger guys to play him outside.

Look at Pierce at 35, you wouldn't put a bigger PF on him.. LeBron is still 7 years away from that and their athleticism comparison isn't even close.

I think most people here are saying he will take SFs or guards into the post more often as he ages.. I doubt we will see him trying to post up guys like Evans, Zebo, West, Boozer, etc on a regular basis when he could easily burn them off the dribble or from shooting outside.

i just think there is a big difference between what lebron will or want to do and what opposing coaches will or want to let him do. no way the league can just let lebron post up sf all the way to the finish line, atleast i hope.

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also just as part of this convo so folks get a better understanding of the background pov from which my comments are coming from....

altho lebron has elite talent, i dont think he has upper level elite skills (outside of court vision and passing). its semantics for sure, but i have a slightly different defintion between talented and skilled. (think shaq-talent vs duncan-skills)

in my view, i think that lebron is the most talented basketball player on the planet 2day, but i dont think he is the most skillfull basketball player in the league.

i think that a very large part of lebron domination revolves around his body, maybe this is unfair but im not convinced yet that if he was of regular mortal size he'd still be THIS great, because i think his body overcomes his lack of elite skills.

so im still undecided on just how skillful i think lebron is and just how gracefull his 2nd act will be. because i think that it is skills that allow you to exit gracefully not talent. however he will always have that body, so thats why im not counting him out.

so personally i wont get the answers to the questions im looking for about lebron until he's on the down side of his career, because as your talent starts to decrease, imo thats when your skills start to really come to the forefront.

4 me skills/resume is the main thing i use to seperate great players from each other. what they do/did on the backend of their careers.

so again im not as convinced as some of you may be that lebron will have this graceful 2nd act, but i wont dare say that he wont either. im in to be continued mode of that subject.

[DukeC]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Obviously, Kobe and Pierce aren't the exact players LeBron is. That wasn't the point. However, both of those guys in their prime were at their best when driving to the rim.

All I'm saying, is he's not going to drastically change is game and start banging in the post.

It hasn't happened yet, and it sure isn't going to happen in 6-7 years.

I can agree with that. All I'm saying is that once he can't use his speed and quickness to get to the spots on the floor he wants to by iso-dribble, he can always rely on his strength to get to the elbow then face up iso dribble.

We did see him do that against the Thunder in the Finals and he was just dishing out assist after assist once the defense was forced to collapse on him. All I'm saying is that he would go to that more as he gets older.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Isn't it usually as you get older, the farther you get pushed away from the basket? Look at Kobe, Pierce etc. Taking more jumpers than ever.

I don't see LeBron maintaining those numbers at the rim as he gets older. He'll still get his, just off of sheer talent, but yall act like he's going to be scoring at will in the paint, and that's not going to happen.

Most of those baskets at the rim come from him penetrating from the perimeter, not playing in the post. So I'm not sure where this assumption comes from that is trying to lead people to believe that he'll be the second coming of Kareem when he becomes an elder in this league. Not happening.

Wow these discussions must be much more interesting when interpreted through the filters in some of your heads. "yall" act like he's going to be scoring at will in the paint? Who's acting like that? The second coming of Kareem? Huh? And I know you've seen my posts about "KING" James in this forum, so even surprising coming at me with that garbage, lol.

Anyway, as you get older your ability to blow by guys goes and you have to adjust your game. That happens in different ways depending on the player. Kobe's post game actually took big strides as he got older, but he also started relying more on his jumper bc, well, he's got a nice jumper. That's most common with wing players, as you suggest, but that's bc that's generally their game and they just lean on it more. Pierce is actually a good example for what I'm saying. He wants to score at the high post and his game now is pretty centered around getting to that spot... be it cutting, posting there, whatever. But it's more brains than physical.

As for LBJ, I see him working more to get into the paint before catching the ball (similar to the end of the Finals last year, like DukeC mentioned) more than Iso at the top of the key as he gets older. I think he'll get better at knowing how to do that, and his coach will design plays to make that more likely. We're not talking about pick up ball where he just comes down, goes to the block and fights for position every possession.

I also don't think he'll be scoring at will. We're talking about the natural way for his game to progress with age just as other players' games have like Kobe, Peirce, Allen, Jordan, Barkley, etc.

[jeebs9]

wwharton.... Exactly! Couldn't have said it any better.


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[ojandpizza]

Idk why people think LeBrons body is such a major advantage. Sure it allows him to take bumps driving to the basket but it largely plays against him in drawing fouls.

Guys like Durant for example shoot just as much if not more free throws and you know they don't attack the way LeBron does..

LeBrons ability to take those hits and not bounce around like a ping pong ball often lead to no calls when many other players would get the call.

And @Taj how can you count his body against him to say he isn't as skilled as other guys? How many people his size can handle the ball, pass, rebound, score all with the ease he can? How many guys with his body shoot 50+% and 40+% from three? How many guys at his size can effective guard a PG all the way down to a PF?

As for his "skills".. If you honestly think he isn't one of the most skilled players in the league then it isn't even worth me making an argument.

I don't believe any player has a better combination of pure talent, athleticism, and skills.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

oj,

how can i explain this...

talent vs skills (atleast to me)

talent = god given/natural. athleticism. lebron's body is a talent/god-given, the body lebron got is a 1:1

skills = honed craftmanship/fundalmentals/technical skill - so for example lebron would be an elite level passer; that is a skill.

think shaq vs duncan or superman vs batman. batman has more skills than superman but superman has more talent. but if somehow superman's talent were to erode, he wouldnt age as gracefully as batman.

i agree its a fine line im trying to explain, but thats just how i see it.

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dont get it twisted lebron has skills, but to me he is more of an army swiss knife, plus when you put that swiss army knife in that body with that level of talent, your gonna get something you've never seen b4.

to me lebron does everything well but outside of passing and court vision what does he do great. he doesnt have a great handle, he doesnt have what i would call a great jump shot, he doesnt have great footwork, he doesnt have a great post game, etc.

he has advanced level body, elite talent and a jack of all trade skillset. when you put it all 2gether im not saying that its not an impressive package but imo outside of passing he doesnt have any elite level skill. (my apologies, lebron does have some elitle level defensive skills)

question: if we put them in the same body (his not lebrons)(and not including talent, i.e. things involved with athleticism) then outside of passing and defensive skills. how many technical skills does lebron have over say joe johnson? not all that many if you ask me.

[DukeC]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

oj,

how can i explain this...

talent vs skills (atleast to me)

talent = god given/natural. athleticism. lebron's body is a talent/god-given, the body lebron got is a 1:1

skills = honed craftmanship/fundalmentals/technical skill - so for example lebron would be an elite level passer; that is a skill.

think shaq vs duncan or superman vs batman. batman has more skills than superman but superman has more talent. but if somehow superman's talent were to erode, he wouldnt age as gracefully as batman.

i agree its a fine line im trying to explain, but thats just how i see it.

--------------

dont get it twisted lebron has skills, but to me he is more of an army swiss knife, plus when you put that swiss army knife in that body with that level of talent, your gonna get something you've never seen b4.

to me lebron does everything well but outside of passing and court vision what does he do great.
he doesnt have a great handle,
he doesnt have what i would call a great jump shot,
he doesnt have great footwork,
he doesnt have a great post game, etc.

he has advanced level body, elite talent and a jack of all trade skillset. when you put it all 2gether im not saying that its not an impressive package but imo outside of passing he doesnt have any elite level skill. (my apologies, lebron does have some elitle level defensive skills)

question: if we put them in the same body (his not lebrons)(and not including talent, i.e. things involved with athleticism) then outside of passing and defensive skills. how many technical skills does lebron have over say joe johnson? not all that many if you ask me.

1st Bolded: I can agree with that. It's good enough to get him just enough seperation to get into the lane, so it's pretty much moot at this point as he can just use his body to help shield the ball as he drives into the lane.

2nd Bolded: You haven't been really watching the jumpshot part of his game the past 2-3 years then. You shouldn't hold excellent shot selection against someone. You wouldn't hold it against Steve Nash would you?

3rd Bolded: This is debatable. He has clearly shown the footwork necessary to be able to pull out confident and smooth hook shots. At the very least he has better footwork than Blake Griffin (WHO IS JUST DREADFUL). I'd say he and D-wade both have a solid/equivalent grasp of how to play in the post.

4th Bolded: You could say this for 90% of Small Forwards not named Carmelo and Paul Pierce. After them it's James, and then it's a loooooooooooooooooooooooong way down from there. Just like at the Shooting Guard position it's Kobe, then D-Wade, and then a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way down from there as well in terms of post games.

At what point does Technical skill translate to Basketball IQ? Because a lot of the stuff you're talking about relates to Basketball IQ and Lebron has that in spades (which is what separates him from Joe Johnson as Joe Johnson has a similar body type to Lebron, except for the pure explosiveness).

[DukeC]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Idk why people think LeBrons body is such a major advantage. Sure it allows him to take bumps driving to the basket but it largely plays against him in drawing fouls.

Guys like Durant for example shoot just as much if not more free throws and you know they don't attack the way LeBron does..

LeBrons ability to take those hits and not bounce around like a ping pong ball often lead to no calls when many other players would get the call.

And @Taj how can you count his body against him to say he isn't as skilled as other guys? How many people his size can handle the ball, pass, rebound, score all with the ease he can? How many guys with his body shoot 50+% and 40+% from three? How many guys at his size can effective guard a PG all the way down to a PF?

As for his "skills".. If you honestly think he isn't one of the most skilled players in the league then it isn't even worth me making an argument.

I don't believe any player has a better combination of pure talent, athleticism, and skills.

If you're Lebron do you really want to take freethrows? I mean, to put this in perspective, he's shooting at a higher percentage around the basket taking all those bumps than he is at the free-throw line.

Or if your name is James Harden and you inexplicably average 10 FT's a game