The LeBron James Thread

[slimm44]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

I understand that argument for sure. There are a couple of differences to me though. 1st, Kobe won his 5 in the place he began his career. Don't give me the "he was drafted by Charlotte thing" either, he was traded on draft night. I'll give Shaq the lions share of the credit for his 1st 2 rings, though he wouldn't have won them without Kobe. The 3rd ring Kobe was undeniably the best player on the team at that point. If you go back and look at the numbers from those playoffs the 1st 2 years and the 2nd year especially, Kobe more than carried his own weight. As for Gasol, he's a great player but let's not try to put him in the class of D Wade or Pippen as other stars on the teams. We all saw how pathetic Pau was this playoffs. I really believe he brought the whole team down against NO and Dallas.

Since you brought it up, Kobe was traded on draft night because he refused to play for any team not named the Lakers. That wasn't a "typical" trade, he forced it.

You agree to him winning the first two rings because of Shaq. There is a strong statistical argument against you on the third ring. The point was Shaq was still the most dominant C in the league, possibly still the most dominant force overall. No way Kobe wins those rings with anyboy but Shaq in that spot.

Do you think the Lakers win their last two rings without Gasol playing as well as he did? IMO, no. He didn't play well against Boston in 08, they lost. He didn't play well this year, swept by the Mavs. They won in 09 and 10 because Pau stepped up his game and has been regarded by many as a top 3 big in the league next to D12 and Dirk. Kobe didn't change his game during those two runs, it was Pau who was proclaimed to have grown in maturity and toughness.

I'm not digging on Kobe, he's obviously great. I'm illustrating two points - one, you're using an argument against other players that you aren't considering against who I'm assuming is your favorite player (STOP - Homertime) and two, chips aren't won by one superduperstar. Every batman has to have a robin.

[Po Pimp]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Sadly a lot of younger people don't seem to remember that Jordan himself needed help too. Before '91 people said Jordan couldn't win the big games and he needed other players to help him.

LeBron had more than enough talent to win the ring in Cleveland, he just didn't. He probably had a good shot to win in Cleveland this year had he not got desperate. Jordan lost in the ECF two years in a row (including a game 7 loss) prior to winning their first ring. LeBron just got impatient.

[slimm44]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

LeBron had more than enough talent to win the ring in Cleveland, he just didn't. He probably had a good shot to win in Cleveland this year had he not got desperate. Jordan lost in the ECF two years in a row (including a game 7 loss) prior to winning their first ring. LeBron just got impatient.

Who was going to step up and be his clear-cut number 2 guy? Cleveland was composed of a few players who would start on most squadw and the rest would barely crack most teams' rotations.

[23]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Agreed... no he didnt..if he did they wouldve won

[AlexBrady]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

IMO If most of the past greats played today, they would not be nearly as good as it seems they were. There is a whole lot more competition these days and, physically speaking, a lot more talent.

Just a little something to ponder over.

There are certain players who woudn't be as great because of their physical limitations. Bob Cousy and George Mikan come to mind. Guys like Havlicek and Barry would have been equally as great. Hondo could run for days and Barry was lightning quick.

[Po Pimp]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Agreed... no he didnt..if he did they wouldve won

When the Spurs won the title in 2003, David Robinson was a shell of himself, Tony Parker was in his 2nd season, and Ginobili was coming off the bench averaging 7 ppg. True enough, Duncan was the MVP, but the second leading scorer was 2nd year Tony Parker who averaged 15.

The Bulls who won the title in 1991 came back with virtually the same team that had lost the prior year. I guess it was the addition of Cliff Levingston who put them over the top.

The point I'm trying to make is that LeBron won 66 and 60 games respectively in his MVP seasons. Those are contender numbers, and he had enough to win the championship, but just didn't. You can chalk it up to poor coaching or mental ineptness, but the roster was there. You don't win that many games by luck. Was it the best roster, no. All I'm saying is, he COULD'VE done it eventually.

[Altimus]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

When the Spurs won the title in 2003, David Robinson was a shell of himself, Tony Parker was in his 2nd season, and Ginobili was coming off the bench averaging 7 ppg. True enough, Duncan was the MVP, but the second leading scorer was 2nd year Tony Parker who averaged 15.

The Bulls who won the title in 1991 came back with virtually the same team that had lost the prior year. I guess it was the addition of Cliff Levingston who put them over the top.

The point I'm trying to make is that LeBron won 66 and 60 games respectively in his MVP seasons. Those are contender numbers, and he had enough to win the championship, but just didn't. You can chalk it up to poor coaching or mental ineptness, but the roster was there. You don't win that many games by luck. Was it the best roster, no. All I'm saying is, he COULD'VE done it eventually.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4faGW099qYM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

When the Spurs won the title in 2003, David Robinson was a shell of himself, Tony Parker was in his 2nd season, and Ginobili was coming off the bench averaging 7 ppg. True enough, Duncan was the MVP, but the second leading scorer was 2nd year Tony Parker who averaged 15.

The Bulls who won the title in 1991 came back with virtually the same team that had lost the prior year. I guess it was the addition of Cliff Levingston who put them over the top.

The point I'm trying to make is that LeBron won 66 and 60 games respectively in his MVP seasons. Those are contender numbers, and he had enough to win the championship, but just didn't. You can chalk it up to poor coaching or mental ineptness, but the roster was there. You don't win that many games by luck. Was it the best roster, no. All I'm saying is, he COULD'VE done it eventually.

I don't even think there's really anything to chalk it up to. The Cavs just didn't make it all the way. It's like that in all sports. There's plenty of teams that are capable of winning the championship, but only one team can win it each year. The Cavs were capable, they just weren't the one team that won it all.

[Po Pimp]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

I don't even think there's really anything to chalk it up to. The Cavs just didn't make it all the way. It's like that in all sports. There's plenty of teams that are capable of winning the championship, but only one team can win it each year. The Cavs were capable, they just weren't the one team that won it all.

That was my point. If people wanted to make excuses, they have plenty to choose from, but to say their roster wasn't good enough is BS.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

I dont that the 03 Spurs 04 Pistons breaking the two superstar mold (which is arguable) proves anything...

at least both of those teams had more than one player who could create their own shot...

[videobastard]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Its hard to rank lebron at this stage of his career. This is the first year where he actually has another player to take some of the load off his shoulders. Success has a lot to do with team make up.

If you take away the main focus off these previous championship teams bulls, lakers, spurs, rockets, heat their teams would not lose 26 games in a row. In the pistons case subtract anyone off that team and its the same scenario. The jury is still out in my opinion untill we see how these years in miami turn out before a true assessment can be made.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

I dont that the 03 Spurs 04 Pistons breaking the two superstar mold (which is arguable) proves anything...

at least both of those teams had more than one player who could create their own shot...

Mo Williams and Jamison can create a shot for themselves too... not to mention that has nothing to do with the argument that Pitifighter or whatever his name is was trying to make.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Mo Williams and Jamison can create a shot for themselves too... not to mention that has nothing to do with the argument that Pitifighter or whatever his name is was trying to make.

Im not sure how to respond...

reread my post in context with who I was responding too..(the post before mine)

I def wasnt responding to "pitfighter"

[Po Pimp]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

I dont that the 03 Spurs 04 Pistons breaking the two superstar mold (which is arguable) proves anything...

at least both of those teams had more than one player who could create their own shot...

So LeBron was the only Cleveland player capable of creating his own shot? Larry Hughes put up all star numbers on a playoff Wizard team before he joined the Cavs. As much as I think Mo Williams is mediocre, he's a scoring PG who has put up 40 while playing with LeBron. If you're a point guard incapable of creating your own shot, you suck. Antawn Jamison averaged over 20ppg for his career before he joined Cleveland, so LeBron definitely had players capable of creating their own shot.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Im not sure how to respond...

reread my post in context with who I was responding too..(the post before mine)

I def wasnt responding to "pitfighter"

You were responding to Po Pimp, correct? Po Pimp and I were responding to Pitifighter when he said "name me one team in the past 20 years that won a championship with just one star and a bunch of role players." We pointed out the 03 Pistons and the Spurs team that won two championships before Ginobli and Parker became more than role players, so I think I understood the context right, but correct me if I'm mistaken.