The LeBron James Thread

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  • ojandpizza
    Hall Of Fame
    • Apr 2011
    • 29807

    #11761
    Originally posted by TajDeni

    to me lebron does everything well but outside of passing and court vision what does he do great. he doesnt have a great handle, he doesnt have what i would call a great jump shot, he doesnt have great footwork, he doesnt have a great post game, etc.
    .
    He doesn't have a great handle but he has a good handle.

    He doesn't have a great jump shot but he has a good jump shot

    He doesn't have great footwork but he has good footwork

    He doesn't have a great post game but he has a good post game.

    How many players do you know who were great at every single aspect? No player has ever done what you're referring to.

    He could have said I've got the size and speed, I'll become a great playmaker and be the next Magic.

    He could have became great at creating his own shot and been the next Dominique or Bernard King.

    Could have became great at finishing at the rim and on the break (which he is) and became the next Dr.J

    His ability to grow and improve in every area is what makes me believe he isn't going to have this drastic fall-off when he ages. He's improved in every area like Jordan, like Larry, etc. and he continues to do so.

    Comment

    • TajDeni
      Pro
      • May 2010
      • 906

      #11762
      Re: The LeBron James Thread

      the point of my post were just to say that im not 100% sold as some of you may be that lebron will have this graceful 2nd act to his career. (im giving him the benefit of the doubt that he will, but i also have some reservations as well)

      and the reason why im not sold is because im not quite sure how much of lebron success is based on elite talent vs elite level skill. at this point i would say that his talent is so much greater than everybody elses that its almost impossible to know how much of his success is based on talent vs skill.

      to me, how great his 2nd act will be will be in direct correlation to whatever the depths of his skill level is not his talent. because father time slowly but surely will start to take his talent away from him, but he can never take away your skill level (and yes i would classify lebron's I.Q. as a skill).

      the nba has seen alot of great players in their primes (his own teammate being 1 of them) but the nba has also in the last 23 yrs not seen many players exit play past their primes and still be relatively dominate. the list is 1 hand small.

      so in no way shape or form am i question lebron's prime, that is unquestionable, im not sold on just how great his decline will be. because it is my opinion that question can only be determined by the depth of your skill level, not the depth of your talent.

      not to cross sports but it helps me to make my point better about talent vs skill...

      lets take a wr with elite level speed (talent). now is this wr always open because he runs great routes (skill) or is he always open because his talent(speed) is so superior to everyone elses talent(speed). what im saying is that we wont truly know to what depths his skill-level(route running) goes until he begins to loss some of his talent(speed). because maybe his speed(talent) is so great, that it doesnt matter how well he runs routes (skill) in his prime.

      but at some point the truth will be revealed, because once his talent (speed) begins to erode away, he will have to lean more and more on his skills (route running) to get open. and he will either possess the skill level to adjust and play well into his prime and have a graceful exit; or he wont and will fall off or retire earlier than expected.

      and so im saying with lebron... his talent and body are so above everyone elses that its really impossible to know just how much of what he is doing is elite-level skill or elite-level talent. but if he plays long enough we shall all find out 2gether.
      Last edited by TajDeni; 02-07-2013, 08:30 AM.
      Through Holy Union God Lives Inside For Everyone
      ~~~~~~~~~~ The Book of Taj ~~~~~~~~~~

      Hidden Within the Depths of Silence and Solitude, Awaits the Realest Dude...
      -- TajDeni

      Comment

      • JODYE
        JB4MVP
        • May 2012
        • 4834

        #11763
        Re: The LeBron James Thread

        Originally posted by wwharton
        Wow these discussions must be much more interesting when interpreted through the filters in some of your heads. "yall" act like he's going to be scoring at will in the paint? Who's acting like that? The second coming of Kareem? Huh? And I know you've seen my posts about "KING" James in this forum, so even surprising coming at me with that garbage, lol.
        Don't take the hyperbole so personally. It wasn't directed at you or really anyone for that matter.

        In fact I'm not even sure the need to write this paragraph, seeing the rest of your post we are pretty much on the exact same page.

        I was just trying to match the drastic overstatements of a LeBron career arc. Kareem was just the first guy that came to mind. Not that serious.
        Cubs | Bulls | Dolphins | 'Noles
        The artist formerly known as "13"
        "Heroes get remembered, but legends never die..."


        Comment

        • wwharton
          *ll St*r
          • Aug 2002
          • 26949

          #11764
          Re: The LeBron James Thread

          I think you guys are taking what Taj is saying with a chip on your shoulder (and this is the first time in a while there's been some good discussion in this thread so I'd hate for it to turn into another petty argument).

          Saying James isn't great at any of those specific things isn't the same as saying he's bad. Also saying he's good at all of those things, great at a couple of things and INSANE physically still adds up to the amazing player we see... which is what Taj is saying. Honestly the questions he's asking about James are the same that were asked about Jordan, or Barkley, or Shaq for example. They were so "talented" (using his definition) it was hard to get a good gauge on exactly how skilled they were. We knew they were skilled but how skilled is tough when the "talent" is so obvious.

          Once the talent starts to fade with age, the skill will come out. Of course there should be constant improvement between now and then also, but he's questioning how much he will improve in the "good" areas. We're talking more about where we think his game will go. Kind of two different conversations but I don't think anything's wrong with either of them.

          Comment

          • jeebs9
            Fear is the Unknown
            • Oct 2008
            • 47568

            #11765
            Re: The LeBron James Thread

            I really hate the whole skill vs talent thing. I think what happens as a player gets old is that he gets smarter. Like someone just said. LeBron is just too "good" not to be good. If you can't see LeBron has more skill on him than talent. I can't help you. He's just too good in so many areas.
            Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

            Comment

            • King_B_Mack
              All Star
              • Jan 2009
              • 24450

              #11766
              Re: The LeBron James Thread

              Am I the only one who could totally see LeBron throwing us all a curve ball and retiring early and we never find this out? Like LeBron is so Hollywood and has aspirations of being a billionaire that I could see him getting bored of the game or just generally turning his interest to something else and walking away from the game as his physical skill starts to decline before the age of 34.

              Keep in mind I'm not saying that will happen, but if it did I would not be stunned at all.

              Comment

              • The 24th Letter
                ERA
                • Oct 2007
                • 39373

                #11767
                Lol, I can't see it.

                LeBron may be Hollywood, but you can tell he has a passion for the game, and enjoys playing it...I see him playing until he physically can't...

                Comment

                • ojandpizza
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 29807

                  #11768
                  Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                  Lol, I can't see it.

                  LeBron may be Hollywood, but you can tell he has a passion for the game, and enjoys playing it...I see him playing until he physically can't...
                  I thought the same about Jordan though.

                  Comment

                  • jeebs9
                    Fear is the Unknown
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 47568

                    #11769
                    Re: The LeBron James Thread

                    I think King B Mack has a sightly point. But it's only how LeBron wins in the long run of things. If he doesn't win anymore championships he could play for very long time. But he if is winning more championships. He will retire.
                    Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                    Comment

                    • JODYE
                      JB4MVP
                      • May 2012
                      • 4834

                      #11770
                      Re: The LeBron James Thread

                      Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                      Lol, I can't see it.

                      LeBron may be Hollywood, but you can tell he has a passion for the game, and enjoys playing it...I see him playing until he physically can't...
                      I agree that I see the passion for the game, but I also don't see that burning desire to play until he's a cripple to break all these records and rack up accolades ala Kobe. Honestly, does Kobe really have any real reason to still be in the league other than statistical greed and this obsession with being called the best to ever do it? The answer is simply no.

                      I don't see LeBron in that way. Never really have.
                      Cubs | Bulls | Dolphins | 'Noles
                      The artist formerly known as "13"
                      "Heroes get remembered, but legends never die..."


                      Comment

                      • SteelersFreak
                        All Star
                        • May 2004
                        • 9582

                        #11771
                        Re: The LeBron James Thread

                        My bold prediction for LeBron is that he's going to turn into an assist MONSTER as he gets older. His vertical is gonna fade, he won't be around the rim as much, but his basketball IQ and sheer court vision is going to magnify when he starts focusing more on it as he ages.
                        NFL: Pittsburgh Steelers
                        NBA: Dallas Mavericks
                        MLB: Texas Rangers
                        NHL: Dallas Stars
                        NCAA: Alabama Crimson Tide


                        University of North Texas '14
                        GO MEAN GREEN!

                        Comment

                        • bghost
                          Pro
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 576

                          #11772
                          Re: The LeBron James Thread

                          Originally posted by DukeC
                          I've just been thinking recently, and treat this as a hypothetical, what if it turned out Lebron has been on steroids for his entire career?

                          What impact would that have on basketball?
                          It would be likely catastrophic for basketball, but it would not change my views on Lebron, just like it does not change my views on any other Pro who uses.

                          Comment

                          • jeebs9
                            Fear is the Unknown
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 47568

                            #11773
                            Re: The LeBron James Thread

                            Originally posted by SteelersFreak
                            My bold prediction for LeBron is that he's going to turn into an assist MONSTER as he gets older. His vertical is gonna fade, he won't be around the rim as much, but his basketball IQ and sheer court vision is going to magnify when he starts focusing more on it as he ages.
                            That's what I've been saying. That's why I been leaning towards the Magic/Mark Jackson player.

                            Originally posted by bghost
                            It would be likely catastrophic for basketball, but it would not change my views on Lebron, just like it does not change my views on any other Pro who uses.
                            It would break my heart just because I had followed him for so long. Can you imagine your favorite player being in HS as a sophomore? I been there for all the ups and downs. Drugs would make me disown him. I'd sale his signed rookie card jersey to any of you guys if that comes out.
                            Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                            Comment

                            • King_B_Mack
                              All Star
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 24450

                              #11774
                              Re: The LeBron James Thread

                              Originally posted by bghost
                              It would be likely catastrophic for basketball, but it would not change my views on Lebron, just like it does not change my views on any other Pro who uses.
                              I don't think it would be catastrophic for basketball at all. There's murmurs of Dwyane Wade being on roids and nobody cares enough to actually look into it. People only care about PEDs in baseball. The media would make a big deal and milk the coverage for a couple months just because of LeBron's name, but it wouldn't have any sort of long term affect on basketball because the sterotypes of roids don't fit basketball. That and there isn't any highly overhyped, beloved all-time records in basketball like baseball. Yeah, there are revered records if you follow the NBA, but in the grand picture of today's sports fans and Sportscenter Nation, nobody cares about the NBA's records.

                              Comment

                              • Sam Marlowe
                                Banned
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 1230

                                #11775
                                Re: The LeBron James Thread

                                Theres a huge difference between whispers of steriod use and a report that makes it official. That kind of exposure would be a big problem for the NBA. On the flipside though look at the NFL. They've had numeruous players get tagged for it and it doesn't seem to make a huge difference to fans at all.

                                Comment

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