The LeBron James Thread

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I agree with your post in general, (although I do think LBJ's 2012 run was a complete postseason) but I think we have to stop itemizing performances like this when it comes to LeBron

LBJ isn't the first elite player to be slowed down by a game plan, or have a role player step up at an opportune time...I think the most important part of the situation is that he got through it...at the end of the day, he delivered in Games 6, 7..

Nobody says "Tim Duncan won a title despite struggling with PHX
's gameplan and Amares athleticism in the conf finals"

If we want to get rid of crazy qualifiers for comparisons, this needs to be one of them as well..

But these aren't comparisons to Duncan or Magic even. They are being made in comparison to Jordan... which is the problem I don't get with huge Lebron fans. His abilities and accomplishments are being minimized because they're being made in comparison to someone most don't believe he belongs on the same stage with at the moment. They bring up the defense that would hold weight against other superstars but don't want to compare him to those guys. Do you remember Jordan ever struggling to win a title? Despite anything? Lets keep him on the stage he deserves until he has gotten to that next level. He may or may not get there.

I was very young, my first real memory as a basketball fan was watching Jordan win his first ring..

But I wasn't saying that people were calling Magic better than Jordan in the 80s.. I was saying that people still called Magic the GOAT rather than Jordan.. I knew people personally who would say "Jordan still isn't Bird", "Jordan still isn't Magic", "Jordan still isn't Dr.J" because that's the players they grew up watching.. Same thing that's happening now with Kobe and LeBron in the Jordan comparisons..

Jordan went on to pass those guys when it was all said and done, LeBron is likely to not pass Jordan..

But I still feel that LeBron as a player is very very very close to Jordan as a player. Whether or not he accomplishes everything he needs to accomplish by the time he retires to be on that level or not we are still waiting to see. But as a PLAYER I never saw anything from Jordan that makes me thing back "man he was just so much better than LeBron" like others here are claiming.. And I was the biggest Jordan fan I knew when I was younger.

People were saying that about Jordan but they were talking out of their ***, and it was easy to see bc those guys were still playing and their primes weren't too far past. If we had a forum to have the discussion about Jordan in comparison to them there would be no "different eras", "nostalgia" talk. It is very similar to Kobe and Lebron discussions now... but we're having Jordan and Lebron discussions so it's not a good comparison.

Most importantly, you keep making this hard case about Lebron being "close". All I'm saying is who cares if he's close? Is he better? You say no... end of discussion. Even people saying it's not close have a case in that you may say he's close in any number of 10 areas... maybe even better in one or two. But if he's worse in all that many areas then no, it's not really close. And the biggest area is how the players bring their talents together and maximize their potential and I don't believe he's close there yet either. He's getting better and I'm happy to see it. I'm just appreciating it and I'll evaluate his entirety when it's all over, or after he's past MJ not when he looks close.

[The 24th Letter]

But these aren't comparisons to Duncan or Magic even. They are being made in comparison to Jordan... which is the problem I don't get with huge Lebron fans. His abilities and accomplishments are being minimized because they're being made in comparison to someone most don't believe he belongs on the same stage with at the moment. They bring up the defense that would hold weight against other superstars but don't want to compare him to those guys. Do you remember Jordan ever struggling to win a title? Despite anything? Lets keep him on the stage he deserves until he has gotten to that next level. He may or may not get there.
.

I think my point stands despite who the comparison is with honestly, just doesn't make much sense to me to try and break if down like that...MIA, led by James, won the series 4-3, not 4-2-and 1 game where James made errors down the stretch. This more of just a general point on how he's being evaluated. I agree otherwise though...

I'm not sure what you mean by "struggling to win a title" though, not having to play 7 games?..seems like an odd phrase...but have a I ever seen Jordan have to endure adversity through a championship run? Definitely.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I think my point stands despite who the comparison is with honestly, just doesn't make much sense to me to try and break if down like that...MIA, led by James, won the series 4-3, not 4-2-and 1 game where James made errors down the stretch. This more of just a general point on how he's being evaluated. I agree otherwise though...

I'm not sure what you mean by "struggling to win a title" though, not having to play 7 games?..seems like an odd phrase...but have a I ever seen Jordan have to endure adversity through a championship run? Definitely.

I was using your words so they meant what I felt you meant them as wen presenting Duncan against PHX. Really the point is you used Duncan as an example. You could've used Magic, Bird, whoever you want... but you didn't use Jordan. There are too many comparisons of LBJ to Jordan with the defense of James being "Well player X didn't have to deal with this" or "player Y had similar growing pains" but neither player is Jordan.

I can enjoy what Lebron is doing, faults and all bc I don't see him on Jordan's level. It's when we try to see him on Jordan's level that all of the micro-analyzing takes place bc at his peak, Jordan didn't have the issues that are being brought up. Right now, at his peak Lebron does. If and when he doesn't, then we can make the comparison. Until then... I don't get it or see it, and it's funny watching people reach to make it. "He's closer than some think" and "player not named Jordan didn't get this type of criticism"... why? He's not there yet so people need to just leave that comparison alone.

[The 24th Letter]

Hey, I mean, that's sports discussion...if I went in the Shaq/Keem thread talking about one is miles better, I'm sure some would disagree that they're miles apart...

The discussion doesn't bother me either way...because like you, I can sit back and enjoy LBJ for what he is, as ive. done with all the other superstars in the league....

[BringTheHeat]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Two different types of players..

Jordan is the best SG of all time, LeBron is the best SF of all time.

You wouldn't compare QB's to RB's or Outfielders to Basemen..

[Sportsbuck]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

This is one of the next steps for him. If he can accomplish that he should average 30 ppg again easily

I feel like FT shooting isn't something that changes that significantly though. LeBron has always shot ~75% for his career. Typically players stay within +/- 5% of their career averages.

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Two different types of players..

Jordan is the best SG of all time, LeBron is the best SF of all time.

You wouldn't compare QB's to RB's or Outfielders to Basemen..

......

I'd like to put it, He's on his way to become the Best SF of all time.

[appalled]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

We are Fans. We sit, watch and cheer.......

[Kashanova]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I feel like FT shooting isn't something that changes that significantly though. LeBron has always shot ~75% for his career. Typically players stay within +/- 5% of their career averages.

and 15% increase plus six extra attempts would definitely get him to the 30 mark, he's already at 26/27 as it is

[Sportsbuck]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

and 15% increase plus six extra attempts would definitely get him to the 30 mark, he's already at 26/27 as it is

That's not my point. I'm not arguing whether more free throws and better shooting would get him to the 30 mark, but rather whether a 15% increase is realistic.

[Kashanova]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That's not my point. I'm not arguing whether more free throws and better shooting would get him to the 30 mark, but rather whether a 15% increase is realistic.

Jose Calderon once increased his FT% from 81% to 98% in a two year span, so I guess it's possible

[BringTheHeat]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

......

I'd like to put it, He's on his way to become the Best SF of all time.

...Larry Bird?

Please don't say Larry is better than 'Bron

LeBron passed Bird last year, IMO

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Two different types of players..

Jordan is the best SG of all time, LeBron is the best SF of all time.

You wouldn't compare QB's to RB's or Outfielders to Basemen..

Jordan was a SG/SF and James is a PG/SF but your point definitely still stands and I agree. In terms of style of play, Lebron is much more Scottie than Jordan. Kobe is more Jordan... which is why the Kobe/James comparisons are tough too.

...Larry Bird?

Please don't say Larry is better than 'Bron

LeBron passed Bird last year, IMO

That's your opinion. I think he deserved to be discussed on Bird's level last year, but it's the same thing. Bird just went, and his game made sure it worked out. James is still learning that. And if you factor in accomplishments, some may think he needs to win a few more first. This is a tough call for me now, with potential for it being a clear James win. But I think some are underrating Bird too. True, he wasn't as athletic as James or most NBA players. But lets not forget that despite the lack of athleticism he's considered at least top 3 SF of all time. That shows how amazing everything else about him and his game was.

[appalled]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Michael Jordan: 6xChampion 6x FMVP 5xMVP: 17
Kareem : 6x Champ 2x FMVP 6xMVP: 14
Kobe: 5x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP: 8(retired lol, i give him 2% of getting another MVP or chip)
Tim Duncan: 4x Champ 3x FMVP 2x MVP: 9(active)
Larry Bird: 3x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP: 8
Bill Russell: 11x Camp 5x MVP: 16
Magic Johnson: 5x Camp 3x FMVP 3x MVP:11
Shaq: 4x Champ 3x FMVP 1x MVP: 8
Wilt: 2x Champ 1x FMVP 4x MVP: 7
Lebron: 2x Champ 2x FMVP 4xMVP:8 (only 28)

My top 10 all time:

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Lebron
Kobe
Shaq


Honorable mention

Big O: 1x MVP
Dream: 2x Champ 2x FMVP 1xMVP: 5

[ojandpizza]

All I know is this, I can name 10things Jordan does better than LeBron and 10things LeBron does better than Jordan.. They are the two best all around basketball players I have ever watched..

Jordan to me is the GOAT, he probably always will be, even if LeBron ends with 8rings and 8MVPs..

But as far as which of them is a better player, I'll be iffy on that until the day I die because obviously they will never get the chance to play each other. And that's really the only way to be certain.