CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[The 24th Letter]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

These players have a JOB, and that job pays millions of dollars

Sorry, but they built their "resumes" up, and put in the work to get that job...

If anyone else wants that job, they are always hiring, go apply for it...

Im not mad at these atheletes for not wanting to take a pay cut one bit....I would feel the exact same way..

[King_B_Mack]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Agreed ThRone. I don't think anybody here is saying that the players are without blame here, but laying it all at they're feet cause they should be happy to get/ be able to live on 4 million dollars a year when the league is making over a billion is ridiculous.

Here is an unbiased fair look at the problems and some solutions by David Aldrige that's up on NBA.com a really good read.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/06/29/labor-analysis/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

[sharks]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I don't know much about basketball or economics but I skimmed through this entire thread. I absolutely hate greed in sports.

The whole issue I have is that the players don't want to take a pay cut when they make millions of dollars! They're not making $40,000 per year. They have nothing to complain about. As mentioned several times in this thread, the ones who should get paid are police officers and doctors.

Since when did sports become a job? I thought sports were about winning championships. I hate how they're becoming more and more about business every year.

When the players say things like "I want to win", things like this make that hard to believe. Athletes are spoiled and whiny. It is time that this ends.

I've already decided that if the NHL locks out again, I'm not coming back.

[HMcCoy]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The owner demands seem ludicrous to me. The notion of rolling back money given during a previous CBA, when no one ever held a gun to any of these owners heads to give some of these dumb-a** contracts in the first place is laughable. I agree that the players have to understand the economy and help defer some costs, but I think it's ridiculous that teams can hide behind amortization and ask players to share the startup costs of a newly purchased team, but get zero benefit when the owners recoup that cost when a team is sold.

Doesn't every company operate at a loss initially? Why should any team be guaranteed profitability from day 1, especially when they make no effort to curb costs during that startup process?

And don't these team owners usually have much bigger revenue streams than the team itself? Aren't they able to write these losses off to some degree?

Seems to me that the high profit clubs should help subsidize those losses for the sake of the league's overall health regardless of market size, or stop approving owners that really can't afford to buy a 300 million dollar franchise. Thats what rubs me wrong. This isn't about competetive balance, it's about greedy newer owners that don't want to take their lumps, nor be held responsible for bad decision-making. WTF? I find it pretty disgusting that instead of standing up to the big-market owners the league would rather make kids from low-income backgrounds liable to essentially help pay for a business that they hold no ownership stake...not because it's right...but because you can hold them hostage with their bad spending habits and fear of going back to the 'hood broke. This really smells like the music industry of the 60's.

What an athlete "deserves" in the grand scheme of things is completely IRRELEVANT. The sport rakes in a cerain amount of money, and that dictates what the players make. Somone is going to make billions either way...the players are simply protecting their cut.

[AllStarDaDon]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I just read that the lockout officially happened on ESPN's Facebook page, is this true?

[Marino]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

lol @ NBA.com

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

You're confusing the issues though 23. You're making it seem like the players are asking for more money when they're trying to not take a paycut. I'm not saying they can't live off less money, but arguing that they get whirlpools and can afford personal chefs is meaningless. I don't care that people would love that luxury. They don't have jobs that generate the cash that the players do. Exactly what the hell are the owners going to do with all the money they save from the massive paycuts the players take? Suddenly the Cavs are going to win a championship? Suddenly tax payers are never going to have to pay for a new stadium every ten years or so when a team is threatening to leave a city? Suddenly Donald Sterling is going to be a basketball virtuoso? Just like every other job in the world since we're obsessed with comparing them, the players don't wanna take a paycut. I'd love to know how many people here would just take a paycut with no problem.

This is what WTF was trying to explain... they're going to continue to operate, is what they're going to do

If they keep bleeding, they'll fold and these players will be in Europe somewhere or on the and 1 tour

Another thing people arent taking into account is that each team is its own business...they are not all one single entity under the nba

The way ticket prices are and the high salaries getting higher, something needs to be done on both sides.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

And don't these team owners usually have much bigger revenue streams than the team itself? Aren't they able to write these losses off to some degree?

Read somewhere that even the Mavs are bleeding. Matter of fact someone is trying to sue Cuban because of it as a matter of fact... its more than just profits some shared owners are in it for in the short term

Ill have to look up the story, but I dont care what company you are, you continue to bleed out hundreds of millions pretty soon something is going to happen.

I also blame David Stern for only marketing certain teams for so many years ive said this... the guy did it relentlessly, and when you have a Grizzlies or OKC or T Wolves trying to come up its much more difficult.

[HMcCoy]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Read somewhere that even the Mavs are bleeding. Matter of fact someone is trying to sue Cuban because of it as a matter of fact... its more than just profits some shared owners are in it for in the short term

Ill have to look up the story, but I dont care what company you are, you continue to bleed out hundreds of millions pretty soon something is going to happen.

I also blame David Stern for only marketing certain teams for so many years ive said this... the guy did it relentlessly, and when you have a Grizzlies or OKC or T Wolves trying to come up its much more difficult.

Perhaps a bleeding team should not be top 3 in payroll. It probably should not have state of the art electronics stuffed in every stall of it's ultra-plush locker room. But then, those things bought a chip. He can't have it both ways, lol.

Where is the balance between competitiveness and fiscal responsibility? Nah, make players on other teams give money back, so my guys can have top of the line practice facilities, and we still make money.

Im all for more control in the form of scaled back rookie wages, and partially guaranteed contracts, but the owners are asking for WAY more than that...not becasue any of these high rollers are going bankrupt any time soon, but only becasue they think they can get away with it.

[DonWuan]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I really feel dumb asking this question but I really dont have the answer to it. But with the lockout, I was wondering what things players have to pay for.

Im not talking about living expenses(food, housing, transportation) like we all have but things like traveling city to city for games, rehab for injuries, association fees, parking, uniforms/shoes/accessories, hotel rooms when traveling etc.

I was wondering this because even the nba leagues minimum is pretty decent. I think its around $500,000 and more depending on years in the league. Then I remembered reading an article about how players go broke after a couple years away from the league. I dont feel sorry for these 6+ figure salary players but my crazy mind keeps thinking it must be alot of bad financial choices or theres alot of nba expenses there responsible for.

I can go on and on but im trying to keep it simple. Any help with this would be appreciated.

[HMcCoy]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Poor financial management. The lifestyle isn't sustainable.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

..but I think youre mixing up just player salaries with Basketball related income


I think its about time we all start posting some facts about whats going on here to add to the discussion as well... anyone seen any quotes lately?

for example

One individual player's salaries might grow 8-10%, but the league's salary as a whole does not grow at that rate because you got guys coming off contracts, other guys signing new ones, and the escrow arrangement, etc.

In any case, given 4% growth in gross revenue, the current CBA would result in a annual player salary growth rate of betwen 4.35 and 4.53% during each of the next 10 years.

Union has no plans to decertify as of now and will continue to negotiate, according to a source. #NBA #lockout

For all intents, there was little for sides to discuss today in New York. As Billy Hunter said, "The gap is too great."

Union chief Billy Hunter: "I've been anticipating this #lockout for the last two or three years, and now it's here." #NBA

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/06/...labor-dispute/

Here are Dave Berri's calculations. According to Berri's estimates, player salary growth has been far outstripped by the growth of costs other than player salary/benefits. Specifically, while salaries have changed by between -2% and 6%, non-player costs have increased 6% to 19% during each of the recent seasons.

Stern and Adam Silver ripping union proposal today, saying it would increase player salaries from $5M average to $7M in year six of deal

NBA will get the national TV broadcast revenue even if there are no games played next year. Could technically be called a loan.

Stern: Under the current union proposal, the NBA would be making close to $6 billion & would be struggling to break even.

Stern: "we're not closer (than at same time in '99). In fact, it worries me that we're not closer."

Stern also said that he expects team revenue sharing to increase threefold in next agreement. Currently teams split approximately $60M/yr.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

This is so exciting.

[tehova]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I only care about 82 games of Memphis Grizzlies basketball, if they want to go on a barnstorming tour across america I will be looking for links to watch every game. Dont care about the financial situation of the league, dont care if anybody makes a dime of profit, the players dont even have to be paid... I just need to see the basketball at the end of the day

[King_B_Mack]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/06/29/labor-analysis/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Like I said earlier, check out DA's article on this whole thing. A lot of truths that both sides probably have no problem trying to cloud are in there. Like the so called 22 teams bleeding money.