Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

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  • st0rmb11
    All Star
    • Nov 2008
    • 5167

    #46
    Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

    I've been trying to stay out of the conversation here, but while George Gervin is very fondly remembered for his finger roll, his charisma, and his smooth scoring ability, he is not a better player than Dwayne Wade, and never was.

    Gervin was a one trick pony. He could score. He didn't care about defense. He didn't care about winning. He didn't care about his team. He wanted to score.

    Dwyane Wade has proven that he can play both ends of the floor. He can score, he can pass, he can handle the ball, he can attack the basket like no shooting guard since Jordan. He has proven that he will do whatever it takes for his team to come out on top.

    Before anyone jumps on me about saying Gervin didn't care about winning. I can't find the quote at the moment, but there is a quote where he says so. His teams were notoriously bad for choking and losing big games...and when you're the go to guy on your team, a lot of that falls on you.

    His quote about his career (and I'm paraphrasing..I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of ), "I'm just fine being remembered as nothing but a scorer. In basketball, scoring is what you do, and people who score usually get ahead."

    He didn't care a thing about being remembered as a God awful defender or a loser.

    I'm sorry, but while George Gervin was an ahead of his time, scoring machine, he was nothing more than that.

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    • ojandpizza
      Hall Of Fame
      • Apr 2011
      • 29807

      #47
      Originally posted by st0rmb11
      I've been trying to stay out of the conversation here, but while George Gervin is very fondly remembered for his finger roll, his charisma, and his smooth scoring ability, he is not a better player than Dwayne Wade, and never was.

      Gervin was a one trick pony. He could score. He didn't care about defense. He didn't care about winning. He didn't care about his team. He wanted to score.

      Dwyane Wade has proven that he can play both ends of the floor. He can score, he can pass, he can handle the ball, he can attack the basket like no shooting guard since Jordan. He has proven that he will do whatever it takes for his team to come out on top.

      Before anyone jumps on me about saying Gervin didn't care about winning. I can't find the quote at the moment, but there is a quote where he says so. His teams were notoriously bad for choking and losing big games...and when you're the go to guy on your team, a lot of that falls on you.

      His quote about his career (and I'm paraphrasing..I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of ), "I'm just fine being remembered as nothing but a scorer. In basketball, scoring is what you do, and people who score usually get ahead."

      He didn't care a thing about being remembered as a God awful defender or a loser.

      I'm sorry, but while George Gervin was an ahead of his time, scoring machine, he was nothing more than that.
      Well that's fine that we have different opinions right?

      I will add however that having a better all around game doesn't always make you the better player. If that was the case we might as well go ahead and shove Joe Dumars all the way up to the number two spot.

      And depending on how Wade finishes his career will ultimately determine how high he makes it on my list. With his past 2 years being short of impressive in my opinion and his ability to not carry the team to anything when they were horrible is why he isn't higher now..

      He had a few seasons of absolute greatness, but unless he bounces back this next season and extends that over a longer period of time in my opinion is just another McGrady.

      At this point the only thing I have for Wade that gives him any justice at being higher than Iverson, or Gervin, is the fact that he has 2 rings
      Last edited by ojandpizza; 10-16-2012, 03:52 AM.

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      • C the Lyte
        Left side, strong side
        • May 2009
        • 2253

        #48
        Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

        ^^^ I'm not as high on Wade as most in here, but c'mon man, another McGrady? I don't think so.
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        • ojandpizza
          Hall Of Fame
          • Apr 2011
          • 29807

          #49
          Originally posted by C the Lyte
          ^^^ I'm not as high on Wade as most in here, but c'mon man, another McGrady? I don't think so.
          That was a little harsh ill admit.. I was just saying unless he comes back to his dominant form starting this next season and continues it for a few years, then the "peak" of his career will be short lived.. There was a whole other thread on debating which player had a better career, peak, or prime between Wade, Kobe and McGrady.. And all of but a couple people chose McGrady for the peak, and about half chose his prime over Wades or Kobe's.. McGrady probably was the best of the 3 at his peak, or very best if you want to call it that.

          I'm just simply saying Wade has to do better these next few years to reach a 'career' legacy good enough to pass some of those other guys. If I were to move him up there that high now, I'd see no reason not to include T-Mac

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          • ojandpizza
            Hall Of Fame
            • Apr 2011
            • 29807

            #50
            I know as well as all of you that Gervin wasn't known as being a good defender, however I never remembered him being quite as bad as what some of you are saying.. Especially at playing off ball D getting in the passing lanes (probably so he could score lol) So I looked into it some.

            At points in Gervin's career he was averaging very close to 2 steals and 2 blocks per game. That's not horrible if you ask me. And although in his first season the steals/blocks total wasn't kept, and when he got older those numbers dropped off quite a bit, his career averages are pretty darn close to Wade's career averages.. Both in the regular season and in the playoffs..

            Also discovered something I didn't know. Gervin became the first guard to ever block 100 shots in a single season.
            And has 5 100/100 seasons. Steals and Blocks. Compared to Wades 1.. Gervin was also very close to a 6th, with 137steals, 91blocks.

            -only Wilt and Jordan have more scoring titles than Gervin, and he was the first guard to ever win 3 straight scoring titles. He recorded a streak of double figures that reached 407 games, played in 12 straight all star games. During his time with the Spurs they won 5 division titles (an awful lot for somebody who didn't care about winning or losing games) - he won an all star game MVP award, and finished in 2nd place twice for the regular season MVP award. Losing once to Bill Walton and once to Moses Malone. I'll also throw in that he was a better rebounder than Wade, Just because lol

            He's a 5time all NBA first teamer, a 2 time all NBA second teamer, and a 2 time all ABA second teamer. Everybody always says "he's famous for the finger role" or "he was smooth" which is true, but nobody seems to realize how great the rest of his offensive game was. The guy was a scoring machine, not just smooth finger rolls, but from everywhere..

            Gervin scored 40 or more points in 68 regular season games, and in 6 playoff games. He has a career high of 63 points in one game, 53 points in one half, and 33 points in one quarter. He puts up this ridiculous of scoring numbers all while shooting better than 50% over his entire career. That's scoring at a higher rate than Melo or Durant with a higher efficiency than LeBron.. And every team he played against knew he was looking to score, he was constantly faced with double and triple teams. I'm sure all of the people here who say he didn't pass or care about his teammates are also aware of this too.

            Also, just to show that I'm not the only crazy person who would take Gervin at this point, not only did I give you a huge list of credible sources in my other post, but also at basketball reference's Elo player ratings Gervin is rated at 29, and Wade at 47.

            - just to add something extra, lots of people consider Kevin Durant the best player in the NBA right now, or at least 2nd best behind LeBron.. I'm not saying their games are exactly alike, but aside from slightly better rebounding numbers KD is looking more and more like George Gervin.. In fact, their career steals and block numbers are the EXACT same, Gervins actually would have both been higher had they not dropped so much when he got old..And those who watch Durant know of his defensive struggles, his length definitely makes up for it most of the time though. And I'll give it to him that he seems to actually want to play defense, which most of you say Gervin didn't. But just because Durant's wants to it still, this far, hasn't made him great at it.

            Despite being damn near 7 foot tall, Durant's highest season block average is 1.2, while Gervin's is 1.8.. Durant is also yet to have a 100/100 season.
            Last edited by ojandpizza; 10-16-2012, 08:51 AM.

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            • ehh
              Hall Of Fame
              • Mar 2003
              • 28962

              #51
              Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

              Originally posted by AlexBrady
              Miller

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              • jeebs9
                Fear is the Unknown
                • Oct 2008
                • 47568

                #52
                Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

                I still don't understand the argument for Reggie Miller. The votes are all towards Wade's side which isn't surprising.

                I just don't see much of an argument. I think someone worded it the right way. Reggie Miller is a good basketball player who came up with some great clutch moments in NBA history.
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                • JerzeyReign
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 4847

                  #53
                  Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

                  Originally posted by ehh
                  I'm still wondering how he got a 5 for rebounding
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                  • daveberg
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2788

                    #54
                    Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

                    Don't care for either of them. Both dirty flopping players.

                    If I had to take one, it'd be Miller, simply because I cannot stand Wade.
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                    • TajDeni
                      Pro
                      • May 2010
                      • 906

                      #55
                      Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

                      i think that Wade is better all-around player but if i had to choose between the 2 of them to have on my team id rather have Reggie than Wade. i think Reggie fits into many more different types of team builds then Wade.

                      Wade had the 1 come out yr yr b4 Shaq and 1 great playoff run w/ Shaq and now the winning with Lebron 4 the last v2yrs, but outside of that, though he was doing his best to help the cause, his career amounted to zero team success. even missing the playoffs when the east was downright terrible. his teams were terrible. but to not make the playoffs in the east back then is inexcusable.

                      and i think reggie's career has had more signature moments in it than wade's. so while historically Wade will be considered a better player. reggie's career will be talked about and remembered more often. (up to this point of course, obviously Wade is still playing.). i know Wade has the 2 championships. but this yrs championship, he was really just an after thought to Lebron in the playoffs

                      if it wasnt for Jordan i believe Reggie would have atleast 1 chip on his resume. i dont think its the landslide ppl are making it ot out to be imo.
                      Last edited by TajDeni; 10-17-2012, 01:02 PM.
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                      • BringTheHeat
                        MVP
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 2264

                        #56
                        Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

                        Originally posted by TajDeni
                        i think that Wade is better all-around player but if i had to choose between the 2 of them to have on my team id rather have Reggie than Wade. i think Reggie fits into many more different types of team builds then Wade.

                        Wade had the 1 come out yr yr b4 Shaq and 1 great playoff run w/ Shaq and now the winning with Lebron 4 the last v2yrs, but outside of that, though he was doing his best to help the cause, his career amounted to zero team success. even missing the playoffs when the east was downright terrible. his teams were terrible. but to not make the playoffs in the east back then is inexcusable.

                        and i think reggie's career has had more signature moments in it than wade's. so while historically Wade will be considered a better player. reggie's career will be talked about and remembered more often. (up to this point of course, obviously Wade is still playing.). i know Wade has the 2 championships. but this yrs championship, he was really just an after thought to Lebron in the playoffs

                        if it wasnt for Jordan i believe Reggie would have atleast 1 chip on his resume. i dont think its the landslide ppl are making it ot out to be imo.
                        Wade has only missed the Playoffs once in his career. When he came to Miami, we made the Playoffs that year. In the 2007-2008 season, when Wade was injured for 30 games, we went 15-67. Not to mention Shaq didn't play but 33 games.

                        We were easily the worst team in the league, I mean we had Smush Parker on our team! If you don't know how bad he is go to the NBA Off Topic thread, there's a discussion going on there lmao.
                        "To the last minute, to the last second, to the last man, we fight"

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                        • BornBetter
                          Rookie
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 245

                          #57
                          Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

                          I love Reggie and despise Wade but I gotta give this one to Wade. His accolades speak for themself.

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                          • The_Wise_One
                            Why Not Us?
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 2633

                            #58
                            Wade is the better player. Easily
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                            • ojandpizza
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 29807

                              #59
                              Originally posted by BringTheHeat
                              Wade has only missed the Playoffs once in his career. When he came to Miami, we made the Playoffs that year. In the 2007-2008 season, when Wade was injured for 30 games, we went 15-67. Not to mention Shaq didn't play but 33 games.

                              We were easily the worst team in the league, I mean we had Smush Parker on our team! If you don't know how bad he is go to the NBA Off Topic thread, there's a discussion going on there lmao.
                              I voted Wade > Reggie

                              But I'm not sure what you're trying to say here lol.. Making the playoffs doesn't mean much. He said Wade didn't lead them to success outside of the seasons he mentioned. And he was right.

                              Nobody gives guys like Iggy, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, etc praise for making the playoffs year after year, if it's not impressive for them it for sure isn't impressive for Wade..

                              Also, Reggie was one of those guys who was always in the playoffs as well. I'm just not sure where your post was going is all.

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                              • BringTheHeat
                                MVP
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 2264

                                #60
                                Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

                                Originally posted by ojandpizza
                                I voted Wade > Reggie

                                But I'm not sure what you're trying to say here lol.. Making the playoffs doesn't mean much. He said Wade didn't lead them to success outside of the seasons he mentioned. And he was right.

                                Nobody gives guys like Iggy, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, etc praise for making the playoffs year after year, if it's not impressive for them it for sure isn't impressive for Wade..

                                Also, Reggie was one of those guys who was always in the playoffs as well. I'm just not sure where your post was going is all.
                                So because the Heat had a god awful team we still should've made the Playoffs with an injured Wade? "Inexcusable"? I think not. Wade did lead to team success when he was healthy.

                                I'm not part of that group, I love guys like that. Granted as a whole those teams are better than what Wade had to work with, but I like teams where there's a few top players on them. Hawks, Memphis, and Philly come to mind.

                                I guess it really just depends on how you compare players..do you judge a player by what he did vs his competition? Or do you judge a player by an imaginary 1 on 1 scenario? I just feel that either way Wade takes this one easily.
                                Last edited by BringTheHeat; 10-17-2012, 07:18 PM.
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