Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

[JODYE]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

I'm sorry but those Pacer teams that Reggie was the "man" of were extremely well rounded.

Playing with a bunch of guys that could get you 15-5 every night made everyone's job a lot easier. Person/Schrempf/Smits/Fleming were all solid contributors. Sure Reggie was the "man" but he wasn't back packing those teams by any means.

Wade is just a better player. Has a more complete game, especially on the offensive end and two rings to boot. Regardless of how he got them.

[st0rmb11]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

I'm sorry but those Pacer teams that Reggie was the "man" of were extremely well rounded.

Playing with a bunch of guys that could get you 15-5 every night made everyone's job a lot easier. Person/Schrempf/Smits/Fleming were all solid contributors. Sure Reggie was the "man" but he wasn't back packing those teams by any means.

Wade is just a better player. Has a more complete game, especially on the offensive end and two rings to boot. Regardless of how he got them.

Thank you for saving me the time of having to type that up.

This has been my thoughts on Reggie from the get go. He gets entirely too much credit for those Pacers teams. Was he the go to guy? Yes. But, he was surrounded by talent during the 90s.
The Davis boys were bruisers inside who, between them, would routinely pull down 20 boards a game. Throw in Smits getting you 15 and 7 every night.
Jalen Rose averaging 18 to 20 points per game for a few years with Reggie.
Chuck Person averaging 20 for a few years.
Mark Jackson orchestrating the offense for several years.
Chris Mullin getting 10 to 12 for a couple of seasons.
He played with Jermaine O'Neal in his prime, Ron Artest as he was reaching his prime, Jamal Tinsley in his prime, Brad Miller in his scoring prime..

Those teams were riddled with very solid players around Reggie. If they weren't, they wouldn't have won as many games as they did or gone as far as they did. You guys actually think that Reggie averaging between 19 and 21 points per game every year was going to get a team to 45-50 wins? Come on..those teams were solid, not to mention extremely well coached (by Larry Brown and Larry Bird).

Reggie Miller played on some great all-around teams; he was just the guy who got the most touches. Saying he "carried" any teams is just plain wrong.

I found this post I made in a Ray Allen vs Reggie Miller thread a good while back. It's a list of every player who averaged 12+ points while playing with Reggie Miller

'88 & '89 - Wayman Tisdale: 16.0 PPG
'88 -'92 - Chuck Person : 19.0 PPG over the span
'89 - '93 - Detlef Schrempf : 16.3 PPG over that span, along with 8.2 boards
'89 - '00 - Rik Smits : 14.8 PPG over the span
'92 - Michael Williams : 15.0 PPG
'94 - '96 - Derrick McKey : 12.3 PPG over the span
'98 - Chris Mullin : 11.3 PPG
'99 - '02 - Jalen Rose : 18.2 PPG over the span
'01 - '05 - Jermaine O'Neal : 18.9 PPG and 10.0 RPG over that span
'02 - '05 - Ron Artest : 16.2 PPG over the span
'02 - '04 - Al Harrington : 12.8 PPG over the span
'02 - '03 - Brad Miller : 14 PPG over the 2 seasons
'05 - Stephen Jackson :18.7 PPG
'05 - Jamaal Tinsley : 15.4 PPG

This is a list of guys who averaged 11 or more points per game during Reggie Miller's career. (you'll notice that several of them overlap)(also, outside of a McKey & Mullin, all of those guys averaged 15+ points at one time..several were 18+). So the case that "Reggie never played with anyone who could put up 20" points is ridiculous.

There was a time from 1994 - 1997 where Smits was the only one who averaged over 15, but in 1994, Miller had 5 teammates average in double figures, and from 1995-1997, he had 4 teammates average in double figures - in other words, they were an extremely well rounded team.

I'm not trying to argue that Miller wasn't good, but I am trying to say that he is supremely overrated. All he was, was the guy who took the most shots on a great all-around team.

and you could actually argue that his best team was when he wasn't the number 1 guy. That 2005 team was the best team in the Eastern Conference before the fight in Detroit, and he was the 3rd or 4th best option on the team.

[TarHeelPhenom]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

It's either 1 or 2 things....

1) Either you're too young to remember Reggie's entire career.

2) It's all about what have you done for me lately.


Reggie is the best shooter this game has ever seen and he did it right up until the end of his career. He is definitely a top 10 shooting guard and one of the most cluch performers ever. As a jury of his peers and they will tell you. I give Wade his props for what he has done so far in the League; but na...give me Reggie. The thing people fail to realize is that some point...the atletically elite will be come grounded. What will a 6'3-6'4 guard do when he can no longer run and jump anymore? A shooter will always have a place.

[TarHeelPhenom]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

Thank you for saving me the time of having to type that up.

This has been my thoughts on Reggie from the get go. He gets entirely too much credit for those Pacers teams. Was he the go to guy? Yes. But, he was surrounded by talent during the 90s.
The Davis boys were bruisers inside who, between them, would routinely pull down 20 boards a game. Throw in Smits getting you 15 and 7 every night.
Jalen Rose averaging 18 to 20 points per game for a few years with Reggie.
Chuck Person averaging 20 for a few years.
Mark Jackson orchestrating the offense for several years.
Chris Mullin getting 10 to 12 for a couple of seasons.
He played with Jermaine O'Neal in his prime, Ron Artest as he was reaching his prime, Jamal Tinsley in his prime, Brad Miller in his scoring prime..

Those teams were riddled with very solid players around Reggie. If they weren't, they wouldn't have won as many games as they did or gone as far as they did. You guys actually think that Reggie averaging between 19 and 21 points per game every year was going to get a team to 45-50 wins? Come on..those teams were solid, not to mention extremely well coached (by Larry Brown and Larry Bird).

Reggie Miller played on some great all-around teams; he was just the guy who got the most touches. Saying he "carried" any teams is just plain wrong.

I found this post I made in a Ray Allen vs Reggie Miller thread a good while back. It's a list of every player who averaged 12+ points while playing with Reggie Miller



and you could actually argue that his best team was when he wasn't the number 1 guy. That 2005 team was the best team in the Eastern Conference before the fight in Detroit, and he was the 3rd or 4th best option on the team.

...and if you will please pull up a list of the players that were on Wade's teams during his career...especially during the Championship years. IIRC, his first title came with Shaq, Antoine Walker, Zo, GP and others on that team. We don't even need to discuss last years team. He clearly had more talent than Reggie did. Anyone comparing Rik Smits to Shaq should lose all credibility lol!

[st0rmb11]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

It's either 1 or 2 things....

1) Either you're too young to remember Reggie's entire career.

2) It's all about what have you done for me lately.


Reggie is the best shooter this game has ever seen and he did it right up until the end of his career. He is definitely a top 10 shooting guard and one of the most cluch performers ever. As a jury of his peers and they will tell you. I give Wade his props for what he has done so far in the League; but na...give me Reggie. The thing people fail to realize is that some point...the atletically elite will be come grounded. What will a 6'3-6'4 guard do when he can no longer run and jump anymore? A shooter will always have a place.

I'm not saying Wade hasn't played with a lot of talent (though I don't think he's had the same support that Reggie had on a consistent basis...minus these past 2 seasons. And you really can't convince me that the Heat are a better all around team than the Reggie's teams were. Sure, they have LeBron, Wade, & Bosh, but they don't have very good role players, outside of Chalmers, Battier, & Haslem).

Anyway, all I was saying was that to say that Reggie "carried" teams is ignorant. He was a very good player on a very good team. To me, Reggie was the same as Richard Hamilton was on those Pistons teams. He was just the guy who took the most shots on a team loaded with scorers. (no, I'm not calling Rip better than Reggie...Reggie was a better offensive player)

[jeebs9]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

I love the Richard Hamilton comparison to that Piston team. Good player on a Good team. And that's what I think about Reggie. He didn't carry those teams. He did hit some very important clutch shots.

But here is a weird question? Do you think Reggie would of won a ring if he was on the Heat teams and Wade was on the Pacer teams?

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

I love the Richard Hamilton comparison to that Piston team. Good player on a Good team. And that's what I think about Reggie. He didn't carry those teams. He did hit some very important clutch shots.

But here is a weird question? Do you think Reggie would of won a ring if he was on the Heat teams and Wade was on the Pacer teams?

He would not have won on the 2006 Heat. Wade carried that team.

He may have won on the 2012 Heat, with LeBron running the offense and creating shots.

[ojandpizza]

To whoever was saying Reggie carried the team.. How is scoring around 20PPG carrying a team offensively??

Also even if you could say he carried them, what did he carry them to? The playoffs? Plenty of players have done that. Iggy, Pierce, Joe Johnson ..

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

I know you're trying to make a point but Iggy NEVER carried us to the playoffs -- he may have gave us a couple dollars for the bus but his *** ain't give us a piggy back ride lol

[The15thunter]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

so, and forgive me if i glossed over it in previous posts, but what does reggie miller do better besides shoot three pointers?

moreover, wade is an astronomically superior defender, passer and rebounder. he is a better all-around offensive threat and creates more pressure on a defense when the ball is in his hands.

in a catch-and-shoot situation, i want reggie. if i need someone to spot up and bang a jumper from 14-25 feet, i want reggie. if anything else is happening on the court, i want d-wade and it's not even close.

[ojandpizza]

I know you're trying to make a point but Iggy NEVER carried us to the playoffs -- he may have gave us a couple dollars for the bus but his *** ain't give us a piggy back ride lol

Well not this past season, I was referring to years past.. He was your leading scorer and has always been a great defender for your team..

I just meant that his value/contribution to your team was pretty much as much as Miller to his. And nobody would argue Iggy as a top 10 SG or that he's better than Wade, or even Ray Allen

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

...and if you will please pull up a list of the players that were on Wade's teams during his career...especially during the Championship years. IIRC, his first title came with Shaq, Antoine Walker, Zo, GP and others on that team. We don't even need to discuss last years team. He clearly had more talent than Reggie did. Anyone comparing Rik Smits to Shaq should lose all credibility lol!

Aside from Shaq being on a completely different level than Smits this is clearly not true. Those guys you mentioned from that 06 team was not the all stars that they once was. In 06 they was off the bench average role players at best. That was a 37 year old Payton who gave you 7 points a night. A once retired 35 year old Zo who gave you a rounded up 8 points a night and only 20 minutes a night. And lastly a Walker who was the best of the three production wise that gave you 12 points a night. Combined they gave you the same 27 points a night Wade did. In the playoffs they was even worse with Zo giving you a rounded up 4 points and 11 minutes a game, Payton a rounded up 6 points, and Walker giving you 13. So combined they gave you 23 points to Wade's 28.4. Clearly their contribution was not close to the level of those Pacers players.

Speaking of the Pacers guys around Reggie. This will side the argument way in the favor of those that say Reggie played with more talent excluding the past two years. Reggie played with 6 other All Stars throughout his time with the Pacers. This is not guys who once was all stars somewhere else this is guys who made all stars teams while playing with Reggie and the Pacers. Before LeBron came to town Shaq is the only guys who ever made an all star team playing with Wade. That is a clear advantage.

Lastly I like Reggie and think he is a HOF but for those saying Reggie carried those teams until the end of his career and was the man and best player until he retired is clearly wrong. It also makes me wonder how much of those Pacers teams they actually watched. First off Reggie didn't make an all star team after 2000 while multiple of his teammates did. It could be argued that for that 2000 finals team and the team in 01 that Jalen Rose was the better player. He was the teams leader in scoring and assists and shot a higher percentage on more shots than Reggie. After that Jermaine O'Neal was clearly far and away the best player on the team without question. I guess those guys forgot about O'Neal but I mean he was a 20 and 10 player who was a annual all star and multiple time All NBA level player. Reggie wasn't close to carrying the team or being the best player during those years.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

PrettyT11 just shut ish down! lol

[Rewmac]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

As much as I'd hate to admit it I might go with Wade now. I love Reggie he is one of the best, but Wade might just be a better overall player. Of course Wade was born with better physical abilities than Miller. In Reggie's era Wade might have been just pounded into the ground I don't know.

[C the Lyte]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

Aside from Shaq being on a completely different level than Smits this is clearly not true. Those guys you mentioned from that 06 team was not the all stars that they once was. In 06 they was off the bench average role players at best. That was a 37 year old Payton who gave you 7 points a night. A once retired 35 year old Zo who gave you a rounded up 8 points a night and only 20 minutes a night. And lastly a Walker who was the best of the three production wise that gave you 12 points a night. Combined they gave you the same 27 points a night Wade did. In the playoffs they was even worse with Zo giving you a rounded up 4 points and 11 minutes a game, Payton a rounded up 6 points, and Walker giving you 13. So combined they gave you 23 points to Wade's 28.4. Clearly their contribution was not close to the level of those Pacers players.

Speaking of the Pacers guys around Reggie. This will side the argument way in the favor of those that say Reggie played with more talent excluding the past two years. Reggie played with 6 other All Stars throughout his time with the Pacers. This is not guys who once was all stars somewhere else this is guys who made all stars teams while playing with Reggie and the Pacers. Before LeBron came to town Shaq is the only guys who ever made an all star team playing with Wade. That is a clear advantage.

Lastly I like Reggie and think he is a HOF but for those saying Reggie carried those teams until the end of his career and was the man and best player until he retired is clearly wrong. It also makes me wonder how much of those Pacers teams they actually watched. First off Reggie didn't make an all star team after 2000 while multiple of his teammates did. It could be argued that for that 2000 finals team and the team in 01 that Jalen Rose was the better player. He was the teams leader in scoring and assists and shot a higher percentage on more shots than Reggie. After that Jermaine O'Neal was clearly far and away the best player on the team without question. I guess those guys forgot about O'Neal but I mean he was a 20 and 10 player who was a annual all star and multiple time All NBA level player. Reggie wasn't close to carrying the team or being the best player during those years.

Your use of "was" was killing me.

So, in response for #TeamMillerTime, Reggie made his teammates better?