Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

[ShawnKemp40]

Saying the 90s era was THAT much "tougher" than today's era is the most over exaggerated argument in basketball debate history.. I grew up watching the 80s and 90s it's not like dudes were out there brawling instead of playing basketball.. And the hand checking is the worst part, it's not like people just walked around holding and pushing you.. If you honestly see THAT big of a difference in game play I suggest you go buy some glasses.

Basketball is still basketball.

And helped by the refs? Yeah the refs can just give you an automatic 40 points in the finals right? He didn't do any of that without them.. Didn't that actually count his misses as makes? I think he even got 2 points for his air balls too

LOL not that much tougher you could foul the **** outta somebody trying to score in the paint and most of the time they would take it and walk away now a days the whole bench gets up and every body acts like a bitch if they literally get touched and the refs doesn't call a foul. Yeah the refs can give you automatic points by calling a foul everytime you drive to the damn basket


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[The 24th Letter]

Good points. I'll say this, tho...In this no-touch league Reggie Miller would be ridiculous. Don't know if Wade could have held up physically with his style in the golden era of true bruisers guarding the paint without the crazy number of bailout calls. Then again, without the roids he may have developed the jumper earlier...whos to say.

You typically don't get touched shooting jump shots...so I'm not sure how much a 'no touch' league would help Reggie....

[JODYE]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

If anything it would have hurt Reggie and the way he wanted to play defense.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

You typically don't get touched shooting jump shots...so I'm not sure how much a 'no touch' league would help Reggie....

Back then, mugging off-ball cutters was legal, and it was the common technique used to defend Reggie Miller. That really isn't allowed anymore, so Miller would have had an easier time getting to his spots.

However, Dwyane Wade is so powerful and determined, its doubtful his game would be hindered much by the ferocious hand-checking of years past.

[ojandpizza]

The only difference from your so called "bruisers in the paint" era as in today's era is the fact that hard fouls were just fouls then and often times flagrants now.. Wade isn't at all scared of contact, bruiser or not a bruiser the fouls are still called and Wade isn't the type of guy to shy away from the harder fouls..

Also what people for some reason always forget to mention when talking about different fouls between eras is body contact.. While in some area calls are "softer" in this area it is actually more physical. In today's game as long as the defender goes straight up and blocks the shot there can be any amount of body contact. You can completely knock the player to the ground as long as you're straight up..

You see this a lot from guys like Ibaka. The body contact fouls were much more often called fouls back then than even now.

[ojandpizza]

LOL not that much tougher you could foul the **** outta somebody trying to score in the paint and most of the time they would take it and walk away now a days the whole bench gets up and every body acts like a bitch if they literally get touched and the refs doesn't call a foul. Yeah the refs can give you automatic points by calling a foul everytime you drive to the damn basket


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Who cares if players act like a bitch at no calls? What does that at all have to do with this argument? Reggie whined and flopped just as much if not more than anybody in today's game.

[ShawnKemp40]

Who cares if players act like a bitch at no calls? What does that at all have to do with this argument? Reggie whined and flopped just as much if not more than anybody in today's game.

That wades a ***** and wouldn't survive in the 90s and yeah shut the **** up all the superstars today cry to the refs all the damn time. Wade Bron Melo durant paul anybody and really Miller flops more than LeBron or Kobe lol hilarious you're obviously a youngin that doesn't know ****


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[DamnYanks2]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

That wades a ***** and wouldn't survive in the 90s and yeah shut the **** up all the superstars today cry to the refs all the damn time. Wade Bron Melo durant paul anybody and really Miller flops more than LeBron or Kobe lol hilarious you're obviously a youngin that doesn't know ****


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Wade wouldn't survive in the 90's LMAO, Wade would be every bit the player he is now. All those players you named could play in either era. Your really overrating the 90's.

Lemme guess Bron couldn't survive in the 90's either.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

Good points. I'll say this, tho...In this no-touch league Reggie Miller would be ridiculous. Don't know if Wade could have held up physically with his style in the golden era of true bruisers guarding the paint without the crazy number of bailout calls. Then again, without the roids he may have developed the jumper earlier...whos to say.

He probably would have gotten banged around more, and hit with some harder fouls, but he'd still be Wade.

[ojandpizza]

That wades a ***** and wouldn't survive in the 90s and yeah shut the **** up all the superstars today cry to the refs all the damn time. Wade Bron Melo durant paul anybody and really Miller flops more than LeBron or Kobe lol hilarious you're obviously a youngin that doesn't know ****


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I grew up watching the 80s and 90s, basketball is still basketball.. You're just biased man..

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

I grew up watching the 80s and 90s, basketball is still basketball.. You're just biased man..

and very grumpy lol.

[TajDeni]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

kinda long but i need the space to make my point..

despite all that has been said and its obvious that majority of ppl would take wade and ray ray over reggie, ill stand on the other side of the fence and ask for reggie on my team over both of them.

on pure skillset wade and ray ray have the advantage over reggie so i understand the points being made, but to me thats not what its really about. to me its about how do your talents translate to your team winning and being successful.

on ray ray

Spoiler

to add to this point, someone like rudy gay has more talent and if his name were to replace wades or ray rays, i feel like the majority of the folks here would take r.gay. but to me this would be silly because regardless of whatever talents reggie did or did not have, reggies career translated into success. while rudy gays has not translated to much.

so with that being said, im not even entertaining ray ray, because before he got to the celtics and became the 3rd cog in the wheel on a championship team, his talents translated to nothing for the franchise in term of team success at either of his previous 2 stops. he had a good solid nucleus with the bucks (cassell, big dog, ray ray) and a great coach to match (george karl). but he 4 whatever reasons chose to leave that situation. so i dont wanna hear about his talent in seattle because if there wasnt enough talent in seattle he shouldnt have choose to go there over staying with the bucks or going somewhere else. but he left because whatever talent he did see there he must have thought he could make a difference and he didnt in terms of team success. not just w/ winning championship but keeping the franchise relevant yr in yr out. alot of his yrs in seattle he couldnt even get the team to the playoffs. so to me that is that.

on wade

Spoiler

now on to wade, i see alot of folks here value wade in a way that i dont frankly, tho i do acknowledge that he is a great player. i just dont think he's as great as some folks seem to think he is.

so this is how ill some it up, and this is just my opinion from listening to other legends talk about reggie and talk about wade. regardless of their skill level, while folks here at OS would take wade over reggie, i dont believed other former legends who played in the league at a high level would take wade over reggie. again this is opinion.

but to me by his peers and the media reggie is viewed as a legendary player even without a championship. is wade viewed with that level of esteem? i dont think so. regardless of skillset, 50 yrs from now (using wades current point in career, because we dont know his future) whos career will be talked about more? i say Reggies.

even with the 2 rings wade has, reggie career is still considered more legendary than wades, because folks respect that reggie career happened at the wrong time. nobody holds it against him that he couldnt get past jordan, they just respect that he took jordan to the brink.

and now wade has been reduced to an after thought, while you and i still know he matters in terms of the teams success, ultimately he doesnt matter any more. because he no longer matters to history. history is not remembering him right now because all the teams glory is going to lebron james legacy and place in history. history is remembering lbj not wade. from a historical pov wade is being forgotten.

he has been relegated to sidekick from a historical standpoint. he is now pippen. or kobe b4 winning without shaq. no matter how good he really is/was history will give all his contributions towards winning the chip to lebron. even kareem gets slighted because of magic. so what chance does wade currently stand to be remembered historically. so from a historical sense wade is screwed...

he has 2 rings (2) and lbj has 1 and already lbj's shine is sufficating wades shine. and its only going to get worst, because unlike mj and kobe i dont believe wades game will age gracefully. 1 he's undersized and more importanly he's doesnt possess the level of technical skills that are needed to age gracefully, because he gets by on supreme athleticism.

look at this yrs playoffs ppl were suggesting in his home city and nationally, that maybe for lbjs sake in history the heat should trade wade. let that sink in 4 a moment... ppl were talking about the heat trading a player that had won them a championship vs dallas for a player who had choked them away a championship vs dallas.

my point in all this is that while wade's physical talents are greater than reggies, his career will not be viewed as greater by the nba brotherhood nor by history. wade is literally being 4gotten in the mist of the history being created. while miller-time is immortal and will live on 4ever.

so ill wrap this up using the story of troy and achilles to illustrate my main point.

achilles mother told him that if he went to war that he would die in battle, but that his name would ring bells 4ever, or he could stay home where he would live to a grand old age and have a beautiful life with with a super hot wife and all. but noone would remember him in history. and achilles chose to be legendary....

so, in this case, you can have your crossovers and whatever else you want to add to the convo as to why you'd rather have wade

ima side with reggie over wade in this debate because;

25yrs from now: History Will Remember Reggie as a Legendary Figure Within the Annals of Basketball. and Wade Will Be Remember as Just One of the Greatest Player to Play, but He Wont Be Legendary.

and after someone breaks ray ray 3pt record history wont even remember he existed, cept by diehards.

Its Reggie Baby (Jay-z voice)

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

You are really reaching with the Rudy Gay thing man. Nobody here would take Rudy Gay over Reggie. We are talking and comparing HOF level players when we talk Wade, Reggie, and Allen. Nobody here brought up fringe all star level players. That is just wrong and obvious reaching.

Secondly you are overrating the legend of Reggie. If Reggie was and has been viewed to the level you are trying to make it out to be then he wouldn't have been passed up for the HOF in 2011. Mullin and Rodman both went ahead of him. Reggie also didn't come close to making the top 50 list and that was before we saw the like of Duncan, Kobe, and LeBron who would be ahead of him without question. Reggie has only been all NBA three times and all of those where third team. Wade's legacy is already larger than Reggie's and even Reggie would agree with that.

Also Reggie can't be included in the group with Barkley and Malone as guys who Jordan kept from winning a ring. The Bulls only played the Pacers in the playoffs once in 98. The Pacers had their chances when MJ was gone the first time and they couldn't get out of the east then. They also lost in the first round five times. They just simply wasn't a championship team level when Jordan was playing.

[TajDeni]

Re: Dwyane Wade vs Reggie Miller?

You are really reaching with the Rudy Gay thing man. Nobody here would take Rudy Gay over Reggie. We are talking and comparing HOF level players when we talk Wade, Reggie, and Allen. Nobody here brought up fringe all star level players. That is just wrong and obvious reaching.

Secondly you are overrating the legend of Reggie. If Reggie was and has been viewed to the level you are trying to make it out to be then he wouldn't have been passed up for the HOF in 2011. Mullin and Rodman both went ahead of him. Reggie also didn't come close to making the top 50 list and that was before we saw the like of Duncan, Kobe, and LeBron who would be ahead of him without question. Reggie has only been all NBA three times and all of those where third team. Wade's legacy is already larger than Reggie's and even Reggie would agree with that.

Also Reggie can't be included in the group with Barkley and Malone as guys who Jordan kept from winning a ring. The Bulls only played the Pacers in the playoffs once in 98. The Pacers had their chances when MJ was gone the first time and they couldn't get out of the east then. They also lost in the first round five times. They just simply wasn't a championship team level when Jordan was playing.

im not reaching with rudy gay, maybe you just missed the point i was making.....

i mentioned rudy gay from a skillset pov not a career pov. the points ppl are making for wade and ray are mostly skillset points, tho they may believe them better career-wise also. so my comment about rudy gay was a skillset comment. and me saying that who cares about your skillset unless you can translate that skillset to wins.

personally i put no real stock into who gets into the HOF because alot of the time its political. i know its another sport but chris carter or art monk are not even in the HOF. so just because reggie didnt make it in the first go round means squat to me when the HOF is based on ppl who sometimes have personal agendas.

also when they did the next 10 after the 50 greatest does anyone remember who the 10 players were. did lebron make it? did wade? did reggie? did ray? or was that just a tnt thing? i honestly dont know.

edit: found it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT's_N...st_NBA_Players
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and we just disagree, and im sure many other will be on your side. but i dont think former players nor the media views wade as a legendary player, he has been demoted to sidekick by the media.

and whether he truly deserves it or not i do think that reggies career will be remembered alot fonder by basketball historians than wades career. reggie has alot of signature moments in his career and the playoffs.

wade has 1, taking control in the finals (no small feat btw) because Dirk choked the game away at the freethrow line or the heat get mashed. plus 4 getting all those bs ticky-tack calls in the finals.

now the beauty of it for wade is he still has a chance to add to his story, but with LBJ in the way i doubt it will happen.

bottom line is i view wade as a great player, but to me he's just a great player playing 2day. he's not legendary to me. he's not a player i feel is really worth remembering when im daydreaming about the league 25yrs from now.

but ill make 60secs for Miller-Time

again just my opinion....

[The 24th Letter]

So Dwyane Wades skillset hasn't translated to wins? Definitely confused by that one.