2014 Draft Discussion

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  • volstopfan14
    MVP
    • Jul 2010
    • 2307

    #1456
    Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

    Originally posted by AC
    To be clear, it's not that I don't support it, it's that I'm not sure if I support it. There's a large distinction. I like that it would probably completely eliminate tanking, but it would probably cripple small market teams with an increased emphasis on free agent signings (bad teams won't have picks to get better with so they'll need to sign FAs, and if they're small market they can't), and I can't see how youth could be reliably and repeatably acquired for a rebuild. I like a lot about the plan, but I also dislike a lot about the plan.
    This is my big issue with it.

    I don't think the lottery is perfect, but I don't know what is better. This tourney idea is nice in theory, but how is it right to punish teams who are just truly bad? Not teams "tanking". But teams who just suck. The whole idea of competitive balance is to let the "bad" teams get better by adding top draft choices. With a tourney, you will have teams stuck in awfulness for a long time until they get lucky by hitting big on a late lottery pick or making a run in this tourney. If you put this tourney in place, instead of teams being smart and trying to build through the draft you're gonna see small market teams overpaying mediocre free agents in hopes of getting lucky because they no longer can build though the draft. That's not good for basketball.

    I get the whole tanking issue, though I feel it is a bit overblown, and I don't like it any more than anyone else. But there has to be something else you can do.
    Tennessee Volunteers
    Charlotte Hornets

    Comment

    • AC
      Win the East
      • Sep 2010
      • 14951

      #1457
      Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

      I still like the "wheel" idea, although iirc it's pretty unpopular.
      "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

      Comment

      • TheMatrix31
        RF
        • Jul 2002
        • 52918

        #1458
        Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

        I don't like the excuse that teams are bad beyond help. Don't have talent? Fine. Have better coaching and management. You can have a bad roster but there's no excuse for bad coaching and bad management. The Suns had a worthless roster going into this year but you know what they had? Coaching and management. A vision. And it paid off. If a bad team got eliminated in the tournament early, then it forces them to have better coaching, management, and draft scouting to find the best player at the slot they're picking at. Much like saying that it's unfair the truly bad teams wouldn't be picking the highest, so too is the idea that the worst teams should just have the best players fall into *their* laps.

        Either way, it's pointless to discuss. My idea will never happen, which is shocking because you'd think the league would be interested in the money.
        Last edited by TheMatrix31; 05-22-2014, 07:20 PM.

        Comment

        • ehh
          Hall Of Fame
          • Mar 2003
          • 28962

          #1459
          Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

          Originally posted by TheMatrix31
          I don't like the excuse that teams are bad beyond help. Don't have talent? Fine. Have better coaching and management. You can have a bad roster but there's no excuse for bad coaching and bad management.
          That is what it boils down to and sadly there are only a handful of well-run teams and top quality coaches in this league. There are so many organizations in the NBA that are a complete mess from top to bottom. So many bad GMs, so many bad head coaches, so many franchises in a no-win situation unless they draft a legend. For all the praise that OKC and San Antonio's front office get (and they do deserve it) their teams still wouldn't be anything special if they didn't luck into Tim Duncan and Kevin Durant.
          "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

          "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

          Comment

          • roadman
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2003
            • 26339

            #1460
            Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

            How about bad ownership for over 30 years?

            You can't prevent that.

            On the Bucks fansites, it's noted on a regular basis that Kohl was a meddling owner who didn't allow his GM's to be GM's. He had multiple layers of non-basketball people on payroll making basketball decisions.

            This is why the Bucks fan base is energized for the new ownership and the #2 pick to go along with Giannis, Wolters, Middleton, etc....

            Kohl is also blamed for kicking Nellie out of town.

            His directive every year to the public was "win now." Can't win now with Sjax, an oversized Mayo, an injured Delfino,(FA's) etc....... and Kohl has been to blame with those over paying FA acquisitions.

            That is the main reason the Bucks have been in NBA purgatory over the past 3 decades. It would be nice to return to the Moncrief and Big Dog/Ray Allen/Sam Cassell eras on a more consistent basis.

            Comment

            • da ThRONe
              Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
              • Mar 2009
              • 8528

              #1461
              Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

              Clearly it's not that easy for 30 franchise to all have great coaching and great management. I'm sure if it was that easy they would all have those people in place.

              I don't think even the worse owner says "How can I find the absolutely worst individuals possible to have full control of all things basketball". It may seem like that at times lol, but I don't see any owner saying that.
              You looking at the Chair MAN!

              Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

              Comment

              • ProfessaPackMan
                Bamma
                • Mar 2008
                • 63852

                #1462
                Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                Not much difference between hiring the absolute worst individual to run Basketball Operations and hiring people with absolute zero experience to run it.

                Or when you have an Owner who's one and only(And I mean only)priority is to make money? This is basically what the Nets were before The Russian bought them.
                #RespectTheCulture

                Comment

                • LingeringRegime
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Jun 2007
                  • 17089

                  #1463
                  Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                  I hope Hornets can trade down and get Hairston. I don't think Stauskas or McDermott will have a better career than him. Ceiling is much higher for Hairston, plus he can DEFEND. Seems like he has got his act together in the D-League, and I think he has a huge chip on his shoulder.

                  <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tXN7xsfg78Y?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                  <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bQzmWSparEI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
                  Last edited by LingeringRegime; 05-22-2014, 08:55 PM.

                  Comment

                  • da ThRONe
                    Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 8528

                    #1464
                    Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                    Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                    Not much difference between hiring the absolute worst individual to run Basketball Operations and hiring people with absolute zero experience to run it.

                    Or when you have an Owner who's one and only(And I mean only)priority is to make money? This is basically what the Nets were before The Russian bought them.
                    I'm sure that every person without experience interview well and gove very detail plans on how they would improve the team. I think an owner like Sterling would be one of those owners who didn't give a damn so long as the Clippers made money. I'm sure there's been a few more George Shinn comes to mind, but even with a few rare exceptions there's still plenty of turnover in management and coaching in the NBA.
                    You looking at the Chair MAN!

                    Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                    Comment

                    • ProfessaPackMan
                      Bamma
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 63852

                      #1465
                      Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                      Originally posted by TheMatrix31
                      "Tanking" is losing games on purpose. Period. The obfuscation of the term in recent years is infuriating. Being bad is not "tanking." Accumulating assets is not "tanking."

                      I don't know who did or didn't "tank", all I know is that I'm sick of reporters and fans and everyone else under the sun even talking about it, or uggesting it does or should happen because, along with piss-poor and corrupted officiating, it severely delegitimizes the sport. This is coming from someone who roots for a team that everyone expected to lose on purpose going into the year and ended up winning 48 games and missing the playoffs by one game. I can't even put into words how proud that makes me feel, and a lot of that is due to shutting these idiotic, simple-minded, "tanking"-peddlers up.

                      The lottery is fine, but I'm all about fixing real problems. If you're going to fix something, fix it. If we hear about lottery problems, it's always about the "sketchiness" of it. Even though the lottery itself is not really that sketchy (especially compared to everything else the NBA does), the losing and encouragement for teams to be bad has become increasingly so. Those are my concerns, so my idea is geared toward eliminating that as much as possible.
                      Who are we as fans to know or say if a team is tanking on purpose? If there's one word that's overrated by Sports Fans, it's "tanking". Because they all assume that when a team loses 2-3 games in a row, they're doing it on purpose without no real, factual evidence to back it up, ignoring the other factors that play a role in a team struggling.

                      And there's ALWAYS going to be questions of "sketchiness" surrounding the NBA. Same goes for the NFL, MLB and College Football/Bball as well. It's not going away especially in a society where literally EVERYTHING is constantly questioned as it is.
                      #RespectTheCulture

                      Comment

                      • ProfessaPackMan
                        Bamma
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 63852

                        #1466
                        Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                        Originally posted by da ThRONe
                        I'm sure that every person without experience interview well and gove very detail plans on how they would improve the team. I think an owner like Sterling would be one of those owners who didn't give a damn so long as the Clippers made money. I'm sure there's been a few more George Shinn comes to mind, but even with a few rare exceptions there's still plenty of turnover in management and coaching in the NBA.
                        I blame that more on the lack of patience that exists in Sports nowadays more than anything.
                        #RespectTheCulture

                        Comment

                        • kingkilla56
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Jun 2009
                          • 19395

                          #1467
                          Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                          Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                          Who are we as fans to know or say if a team is tanking on purpose? If there's one word that's overrated by Sports Fans, it's "tanking". Because they all assume that when a team loses 2-3 games in a row, they're doing it on purpose without no real, factual evidence to back it up, ignoring the other factors that play a role in a team struggling.

                          And there's ALWAYS going to be questions of "sketchiness" surrounding the NBA. Same goes for the NFL, MLB and College Football/Bball as well. It's not going away especially in a society where literally EVERYTHING is constantly questioned as it is.
                          Im so tired of the tanking rhetoric. If a team is historically bad, they must be tanking and thank goodness Cleveland won the lottery to teach those no good tankers to stop tanking. But what if the team is just THAT bad?

                          The NFL(for example) does it right. The worst teams get the best picks tanking be damned. Could you imagine if the Lions got the number one pick this year, Texans got bumped to 5 or 6? It would be bull****.
                          Tweet Tweet

                          Comment

                          • da ThRONe
                            Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 8528

                            #1468
                            Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                            Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                            I blame that more on the lack of patience that exists in Sports nowadays more than anything.
                            We agree here. I think the fact that most people in management have such little job security that they make unnecessary gambles that are very low percentage because they don't have the time to do things right.
                            You looking at the Chair MAN!

                            Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                            Comment

                            • roadman
                              *ll St*r
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 26339

                              #1469
                              Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                              Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                              Not much difference between hiring the absolute worst individual to run Basketball Operations and hiring people with absolute zero experience to run it.

                              Or when you have an Owner who's one and only(And I mean only)priority is to make money? This is basically what the Nets were before The Russian bought them.
                              In Milwaukee, we couldn't tell though if the GM's were good or not because they were hamstrung by Kohl's hiring of non-basketball cronies.

                              We know Hammond is a pretty good drafter(outside of Joe Alexander and Yi Jilian)(sp?), but the trades and FA pickups have been lousy. So, if Hammond is still a GM after the draft, we should be able to find out if he is good , decent or lousy outside of drafting because he won't have the meddling Kohl around anymore.

                              Comment

                              • Sportsbuck
                                The Predator
                                • Jul 2006
                                • 4326

                                #1470
                                Re: 2014 Draft Discussion

                                Originally posted by LingeringRegime
                                I hope Hornets can trade down and get Hairston. I don't think Stauskas or McDermott will have a better career than him. Ceiling is much higher for Hairston, plus he can DEFEND. Seems like he has got his act together in the D-League, and I think he has a huge chip on his shoulder.
                                I like Hairston at the #24. I think he'd be a great sparkplug off the bench.

                                I like McDermott a lot though. Sure, he and MKG will have to figure things out from a minutes standpoint. But he's a sharpshooter, has excellent footwork, and is very efficient and smart. I think he can be a Kyle Korver/Mike Miller and that would be great for this team.
                                Ohio State Buckeyes | Carolina Panthers | Charlotte Hornets | Cincinnati Reds

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