Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

[ojandpizza]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Well, the best players didn't win one without him. (except Shaq with Pat Riley...)

Right, and I'm not arguing at all that he isn't a great coach.. But winning COTY has nothing to do with what happens in the playoffs.


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[KG]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

There's really only a handful of "elite" coaches today that I think people would universally agree on.

Pops, Thibbs, Carlisle, Rivers and Vogel (he's a stretch but I think he's near the top). The order is up for debate.

Is Thibs really elite?

Serious question for Bulls fans who watch him every game during the regular season. He got there and achieved immediate success taking them to the ECF before the injury to Rose but I feel as though his stubbornness has had a little to do with why the Bulls seem to be regressing. It would be impossible to fully know this because of the injuries to Rose but IMO (and get the impression from some Bulls fans on here) his stubbornness with rotations combined with what seems to be like running players into the ground are keeping the Bulls from being a better team in the long-run, especially in this series with my Wiz where tbh, we look fresher down the stretch. Unbiased thoughts?

I don't think Vogel is elite yet. I need to see a little bit more.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Judging by what Thibbs can do with the talent that he's had, yeah I don't think there's any question that he's elite. Judging from his role in the Celtics' title and his time with the Knicks, I'd say he's definitely in a group that's highly highly respected and regarded by his peers and players alike.

If Thibbs isn't "elite" then I'd like to see your list of elite coaches so we can compare and I can get context as to the standards being set to be considered elite.

[KG]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Judging by what Thibbs can do with the talent that he's had, yeah I don't think there's any question that he's elite. Judging from his role in the Celtics' title and his time with the Knicks, I'd say he's definitely in a group that's highly highly respected and regarded by his peers and players alike.

If Thibbs isn't "elite" then I'd like to see your list of elite coaches so we can compare and I can get context as to the standards being set to be considered elite.

I know he did wonders as an assistant but I only count his experience as a HC. It's a whole different ball-game when you have total responsibility. I'd say the Bulls slightly over-achieved this year considering how watered down the East was. A 4 seed is commendable but helped out a lot by Brooklyn's poor start, NY's implosion, etc... By no means am I saying he's a bad coach. He's already a very good coach but "elite" status in my book requires a little bit more time & success.

My list of elite coaches right now would be Pop 1A - Carlisle/Rivers 1B with a slight advantage to Carlisle because he had success with multiple teams and IMO he's done a tremendous job this year with aging talent and discarded talent (Monta, Calderon) in a tough Western Conference. I thought this way before the impressive Game 2 win so I don't want anyone to think I'm full off that kool-aid.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

I would say Thibs is elite but the bottom of the elite tier. Running his players into the ground is a pretty big leak in his game. This has been my knock on him for years.

[23]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

He's definitely elite defensively... That Celtics and that Rockets teams he was assistant on both had top 5 defenses and he's on a team now that has a DPOY candidate on it.

I would like to see what he can do with some more offensive talent though, not just one go to guy. At this point they have to play as hard as they do or they don't win plain and simple, and for the fact that he hasn't gotten on people's nerves like a guy like Scott Skiles managed to do multiple times tells me he has a meethod to his madness at least most of the time.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

If Spo wins another ring, there's no debate any longer as to where he ranks. He'd join that group for sure. 4 straight finals appearances and a 3-peat with an aging roster? Also to defend the throne is even harder than getting it. At this point he is in that middle tier. Crazy to think he would be going for a 4-peat if not for a historical run by Dirk and a crazy comeback early in that series.

Except according to this thread the coach doesn't matter if you have a player the caliber of LeBron James or a Kevin Durant on the roster. Spo's just there to keep a seat warm.

As for Thibs, don't let our frustrations fool you. Thibs doesn't run his players into the ground anymore than any other coach in the league.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_top_10.html

Top ten year by year in minutes played per game. Lot of prominent names on there, but since Derrick Rose blew out his knee, the fun narrative that everybody latches onto and beats into the ground without any sort of fact checking is that Thibs runs his guys into the ground.

He's definitely stubborn about his rotations though, but again that's not uncommon for coaches. Guys have to earn a coaches trust to be out there on literally every team in the league. Thibs is still an elite coach in this league if for nothing else but the elite defenses he continues to put on the floor. He doesn't have the offensive players to really show off that he knows offense too, but we've seen flashes of it with some really great offensive playcalling from him. But again, if you aren't watching all the games and basing your opinions off the narratives they feed you nationally, you won't know that.

[ThreeKing]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

If Spo wins another ring, there's no debate any longer as to where he ranks. He'd join that group for sure. 4 straight finals appearances and a 3-peat with an aging roster? Also to defend the throne is even harder than getting it. At this point he is in that middle tier. Crazy to think he would be going for a 4-peat if not for a historical run by Dirk and a crazy comeback early in that series.

100% disagree. Guy was given a winning lottery ticket from the jump. Put him on some team like the Pelicans and then judge from there. I don't think he's a ****ty coach, but that's absurd to think he could be elite.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

The reason I say Carlisle is the second best coach is because he's a great coach all-around. Thibs is a defensive mastermind, but his offensive coaching leaves something to be desired. Carlisle is an outstanding defensive coach, but he's also an extremely good offensive coach as well, and to me, that places him over Thibs.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Erik Spoelstra did coach before he got the big 3 ya know...and the squads he had before hand were far from a lottery ticket....

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Erik Spoelstra did coach before he got the big 3 ya know...and the squads he had before hand were far from a lottery ticket....

Yeah, I dunno how people have gotten it into their heads that Spo's first year was the year they lost the Finals, but it wasn't at all. He managed to take some pretty weak Heat teams to the playoffs the two years prior to that.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Erik Spoelstra did coach before he got the big 3 ya know...and the squads he had before hand were far from a lottery ticket....

To be fair, those teams were all trash, so it's not like it helps his cause. But that was more about the players he had available than the job coaching he did.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Trash is a bit harsh

2008-2009: 43-39
2009-2010: 47-35

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

You're right, probably a bit too harsh. But It was more along the lines of they were similar to Mike Brown's Cleveland teams. They could ride Wade to the playoffs and you knew they were pretty much no threat at all in the postseason. They were first round fodder.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

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Thibs can coach, he needs some more offensive minded players to really show what he can do, but his "not good offensively" and such and such is overstated.