2019 Offseason Thread

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

Man they overachieved for half a season then started falling apart by the nuts and bolts.

I don't think they overachieved but even if they did that doesn't change the fact that Vogel had success when OSU said none of those coaches did. Dude took over a 37 win team that hadn't made the playoffs in 4 seasons and immediately got them to 42, 49 and 56 wins going to the second round and the conference Finals back-to-back against LeBron's first superteam. The only reason they missed the playoffs the following year was because Paul George hurt himself in the team USA game so he wasn't even wearing a Pacers uniform when it happened.

I honestly don't think people understand how hard it is to get to the NBA Finals let alone win it. Coaching success isn't solely about championships won.

[jeremym480]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

Speaking of the Crabbe contract... Are the Nets in play for a Davis trade as well?

They have contracts of Crabbe, Dinwiddie, and young pieces on great contracts in LeVert and Allen. They could realistically put together some sort of package, though it would take all their picks again lol..

Could theoretically come into next season with Kyrie, DLo, and AD.

From listening to a Pelicans podcast and reading some of their fans on Twitter it seems they like the Nets but they're package is 5th in the pecking order. They rated each teams theoretical package and they still have Boston #1 followed by the Knicks and Clippers (both fairly close), then the Lakers 4th and the Nets a distant 5th. Although, they did said the only way the Nets could get to #1 is if they went the Billy King route.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

From listening to a Pelicans podcast and reading some of their fans on Twitter it seems they like the Nets but they're package is 5th in the pecking order. They rated each teams theoretical package and they still have Boston #1 followed by the Knicks and Clippers (both fairly close), then the Lakers 4th and the Nets a distant 5th. Although, they did said the only way the Nets could get to #1 is if they went the Billy King route.

As long as Brooklyn is in the conversation, that’s really all that matters. It’s not really about the best hypothetical package because those probably won’t be offered. If it was about the best hypothetical packages, PG wouldn’t be in OKC, Kawhi wouldn’t be in Toronto, and Kyrie wouldn’t be in/leaving Boston.

If Brooklyn decides to strongly pursue it, it’s not all that hard to imagine a world where their offer ends up being the best that actually gets put on the table.


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[NYJets]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

As long as Brooklyn is in the conversation, that’s really all that matters. It’s not really about the best hypothetical package because those probably won’t be offered. If it was about the best hypothetical packages, PG wouldn’t be in OKC, Kawhi wouldn’t be in Toronto, and Kyrie wouldn’t be in/leaving Boston.

If Brooklyn decides to strongly pursue it, it’s not all that hard to imagine a world where their offer ends up being the best that actually gets put on the table.


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Well the Celtics might not offer their best package but the Lakers and Knicks both know he'll resign with them, the Lakers are desperate and will clearly go all in for him, and the Knicks seem interested, which means they would be willing to include the main assets. Doesn't seem like the same situation

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

From listening to a Pelicans podcast and reading some of their fans on Twitter it seems they like the Nets but they're package is 5th in the pecking order. They rated each teams theoretical package and they still have Boston #1 followed by the Knicks and Clippers (both fairly close), then the Lakers 4th and the Nets a distant 5th. Although, they did said the only way the Nets could get to #1 is if they went the Billy King route.

I can't possibly imagine a scenario where the Clippers have a package as good as any 4 of those other teams.. Their draft picks would likely be worse than any of those teams, and the most intriguing young asset they have is SGA.. Clippers don't have much to offer for a team that's looking to pair young pieces to grow with Zion. Net's could put together a much better offer if they wanted to, and if came down to it if the Lakers still wanted to clean house to get him the Clippers are nowhere remotely close to that either. Knicks top them with the 3rd pick alone, including some young guys like DSJ, Robinson, Knox, Trier, and they should be way ahead as well.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

Well the Celtics might not offer their best package but the Lakers and Knicks both know he'll resign with them, the Lakers are desperate and will clearly go all in for him, and the Knicks seem interested, which means they would be willing to include the main assets. Doesn't seem like the same situation

I don’t think either of those teams are necessarily going to offer everything they have even if they are interested. Also don’t really think they’ll trade him to the Lakers regardless.


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[georgiafan]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

I can't possibly imagine a scenario where the Clippers have a package as good as any 4 of those other teams.. Their draft picks would likely be worse than any of those teams, and the most intriguing young asset they have is SGA.. Clippers don't have much to offer for a team that's looking to pair young pieces to grow with Zion. Net's could put together a much better offer if they wanted to, and if came down to it if the Lakers still wanted to clean house to get him the Clippers are nowhere remotely close to that either. Knicks top them with the 3rd pick alone, including some young guys like DSJ, Robinson, Knox, Trier, and they should be way ahead as well.

I 100% agree with you I don’t get how the clipper are even in the conversation. If they hadn’t made the playoffs this year atleast they could have offered the 14th pick this year. The only young player they have of value is SGA and outside of him it’s a bunch of average guys and draft picks that won’t be any good. Atleast with LA or NY you can say your high on a player that was drafted high and your getting a top 4 rookie

[23]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

I don't think they overachieved but even if they did that doesn't change the fact that Vogel had success when OSU said none of those coaches did. Dude took over a 37 win team that hadn't made the playoffs in 4 seasons and immediately got them to 42, 49 and 56 wins going to the second round and the conference Finals back-to-back against LeBron's first superteam. The only reason they missed the playoffs the following year was because Paul George hurt himself in the team USA game so he wasn't even wearing a Pacers uniform when it happened.

I honestly don't think people understand how hard it is to get to the NBA Finals let alone win it. Coaching success isn't solely about championships won.

Im not talking about the year after or whatever OSU is saying.

Im talking about the one season where they collapsed. That by itself was an overachievement because they played like 2 different teams in the same year.

All of that wasn't necessary, we all saw them melt down on live TV

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

Im not talking about the year after or whatever OSU is saying.

Im talking about the one season where they collapsed. That by itself was an overachievement because they played like 2 different teams in the same year.

All of that wasn't necessary, we all saw them melt down on live TV

Okay I'm still not seeing the relevance of your statements to the conversation though. He said there wasn't a successful coach in that bunch for the Lakers. I pointed out that Vogel had had some form of success as a head coach and you're talking about overachieving for half a season. I don't buy into this overachieving thing you're going with now. You don't overachieve multiple years in a row. The Atlanta Hawks with the best record in the east before being swept out of the playoffs by LeBron only for them to fall off a cliff the following 2 years is overachieving. The year you're talking about is their second conference finals trip. You don't accidently get to the conference finals back-to-back. But regardless of all of that. You can't say that Vogel didn't have success as a head coach.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

When a team overachieves, doesn't that tend to be a point in the coach's favor anyway? It's like he made them more than the sum of their parts.

[jeremym480]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

I can't possibly imagine a scenario where the Clippers have a package as good as any 4 of those other teams.. Their draft picks would likely be worse than any of those teams, and the most intriguing young asset they have is SGA.. Clippers don't have much to offer for a team that's looking to pair young pieces to grow with Zion. Net's could put together a much better offer if they wanted to, and if came down to it if the Lakers still wanted to clean house to get him the Clippers are nowhere remotely close to that either. Knicks top them with the 3rd pick alone, including some young guys like DSJ, Robinson, Knox, Trier, and they should be way ahead as well.

A lot of Pelicans guys are really high on SGA.... like they think that he could be the next Penny Hardaway. They want Jrue to be his mentor and those two as they're starting backcourt. In the trade, they also want Landry Shamet and that trio (Zion, SGA, and Landry) as their young core. Then include Gallo (expiring) for salary matching purposes and either Lou or Harrell. Either of those could be either "win now" pieces if they start the year off hot, but if not then they should be good trade pieces.

Lastly, they're looking for future draft capital. Anything can happen with future picks but they're banking on the Miami unprotected pick in 2021 that the Clippers acquired from Philly in the Tobias Harris trade. They think that pick has more potential than any of New York's future picks (their own and the Dallas picks).

[ehh]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

A lot of Pelicans guys are really high on SGA.... like they think that he could be the next Penny Hardaway.

What the ****?

[23]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

Okay I'm still not seeing the relevance of your statements to the conversation though. He said there wasn't a successful coach in that bunch for the Lakers. I pointed out that Vogel had had some form of success as a head coach and you're talking about overachieving for half a season. I don't buy into this overachieving thing you're going with now. You don't overachieve multiple years in a row. The Atlanta Hawks with the best record in the east before being swept out of the playoffs by LeBron only for them to fall off a cliff the following 2 years is overachieving. The year you're talking about is their second conference finals trip. You don't accidently get to the conference finals back-to-back. But regardless of all of that. You can't say that Vogel didn't have success as a head coach.

Okay but you're still refuting OSU not me.

I was only talking about their collapse season.


I didn't have an issue with Vogel then and don't recall anyone else bad mouthing him either.


Once he left Indy he was completely off the map, and I heard people praising Steve Clifford more than him.

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[23]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

When a team overachieves, doesn't that tend to be a point in the coach's favor anyway? It's like he made them more than the sum of their parts.

Not when it's followed up with a monumental collapse

You don't see people calling Brad Stevens a genius this year do you?

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[OSUFan_88]

Re: 2019 Offseason Thread

Not when it's followed up with a monumental collapse

You don't see people calling Brad Stevens a genius this year do you?

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