Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
Well that must've been the quantity for quality trade, I guess
Well that must've been the quantity for quality trade, I guess
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Wolverines Wings Same Old Lions Tigers Pistons Erika Christensen -
Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
I know what you mean, but paying Drummond was really the worst thing we could have done. I mean, I like him and he seems to be improving, but he doesn't warrant franchise-player money in the modern NBA. He basically just doesn't fit. But you're right in the sense that if you cut bait on him and elect not to pay him (which is really what they should have done), the fans lose all faith and interest because you're basically admitting you have no long-term plan and don't know what you're doing. Even though the truth of the matter is that the Pistons have no long term plan and don't know what they're doing.
Yep. I mean, it's D-league talent that is the result of very poor drafting and even worse free-agent acumen. It'd be one thing if SVG could say he's doing the best he can with what he's been given (which is true to some extent), but why is this the roster he has to work with in the first place? Oh yeah...
LOL....you called it, man. It's like you were in the Pistons' front office or something. I guarantee our executive office was basically sitting around with their thumbs up their a**es saying "what the hell can be done with this team?" and then threw their arms up and basically said, what the hell, let's see if we can go grab a big name somewhere, just for sh*ts and giggles.
I sorta wish you were in charge. I mean, I don't know you from a hole in the wall, but you would have to be better than what we've had going on at 3 Championship Drive (or whatever the hell the new address is now) for the past decade plus. Anyway, you couldn't be any worse. I mean, we can't fall from the floor.
Also, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have paid Josh Smith $54 Million over 4 years.
Boo. (microphone feedback....tap, tap....."I know you're out there, I can hear you breathing...")
About the only good thing I can think of that came out of this trade is that it's temporarily relevant to post about the Pistons in the main hoops thread. We made it to the big-time, b*tches!
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
The SVG/Bowers combo is like the anti-Holland:
1. The duo has won most of their trades on paper, unlike Holland.
2. The Pistons haven't crippled themselves on FA deals. Sure, some of them haven't worked out, but most of the signings made some sense and the worst I could say is that the AAV was 1-2 M too high.
3. Based on his history Holland would probably have overpaid Monroe and KCP, and there is no way he would have went after another team's RFA. Not saying that what the Pistons have done was good, but again, it wasn't crippling.
4. The Wings have been getting value out of their recent draft picks, whereas the Pistons haven't been.
Does this mean that I trust SVG/Bowers? Compared to where the team was from 2009-2014, this is a major improvement. At this point, I'm more concerned that SVG won't be able to make the players he has fit together. I think Griffin and Drummond are good enough passers to make it work, but not in the current system. if the Pistons are going to make this move for Griffin, they may as well keep going.Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
rdnk - great to have you posting in here! It was getting to the point where it was a private chat room between l3ulvl and I....
I agree with some of what you're saying, but I will have to respectfully disagree with some of your points:
Other than Jennings and Ilyasova to Orlando for Tobias Harris, I can't think of many trades that the Pistons have made that I would consider them the clear winners of (on paper or otherwise). And even the Harris trade, SVG only gets half-credit for, since he was the one who signed Ilyasova as a FA in the first place (with the intention of him being a rotation player for the 'Stones, by all accounts).
The Pistons have done nothing BUT sign crippling FA deals of late. Not all of that is SVG, but the recent list of high-profile failures with crippling contracts is a murderer's row of bad decision making. Charlie Villanueva, Ben Gordon (who I think might be incarcerated at present), Josh Smith (who we are still paying $5M/year despite him not playing for us in over 2 years), Jon Leuer, Reggie Jackson....both of whom have been injured for most of the time they've been on our roster. We're hard-capped and probably a luxury tax team w/ the Griffin trade, have $0 in cap space for the next year (at least), and are pretty much hand-cuffed to our current roster for the next 3-4 years. And now have fewer draft picks to help build out the team.
No argument that the Wings have been sub-optimal on the FA front of late. But even had the Pistons re-signed and overpaid Moose and KCP, it's not clear to me that we would be that much worse off (depending on the contracts) than we are now. I mean, having over $300 million tied up in Griffin, Drummond, Jackson, and Leuer is hardly that much better than a similar amount in Drummond, Monroe, KCP, and FA to be named later. It's all equally bad, I guess.
Oh, come on now, be fair: Henry Ellenson, Michael Gbinjie, Darrun Hillard, Spencer Dinwiddie, Tony Mitchell, Peyton Siva....the list goes on of the Pistons identifying guys that have been decently solid G-league players.
I would argue the Pistons are no better, and may in fact be worse off than they were from 2009-2014 than they are now. It's pretty close. Both eras featured massive overpayment and over-commitment to a handful of non-impact FA's, little-to-no cap space, consistent draft strikeouts, and a core of players that would have hard time being decently competitive in the developmental league. Both eras teams are going nowhere fast, with a ceiling of maybe a lower-half Eastern Conference seed and first-round exit. Both are boring (although hopefully Griffin at least throws down some highlight-reel dunks to make things exciting before he goes out for the year with a knee injury). And both have no hope for improvement in the foreseeable future due to salary and contract commitments. You can also excuse (to some extent) the 09-14 era because the team lost Bill Davidson as the owner, and was in a protracted sale process due to Mr. D's widow (during which time the team was in total limbo being left to rot on the vine), and then went through an ownership change. The current team has had stability and a new arena, with zero to show for it but more of the same.
I think we agree, though, that the bottom line is: neither Holland nor SVG/Bower should be employed by Detroit franchises right now. It's gonna be a long winter in Motown.Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
On the FA deals I meant SVG/Bowers specifically. Dumars was worse as far as crippling FA deals IMO.
As far as trades, SVG/Bowers got Reggie for basically nothing, Harris for basically nothing, picked up Morris and Bullock in a cap dump, the later shipped off Morris for Bradley (on paper is an upgrade). They made some other minor deals, but besides the Blake Griffin trade, it looks like to me the deals were either wins or minor in nature.
At the end of the day, we are in agreement though.Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
Hey Dinwiddie doesn't count, he's been serviceable this year
Still can't shoot (although he's no longer a 10% 3PT shooter, so there's that), but at least he gets solid NBA run, even if you don't consider the Nets an NBA teamWolverines Wings Same Old Lions Tigers Pistons Erika ChristensenComment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
Coming up on March 1 here....is it time to start the annual tanking yet?Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
LOL...how quickly I forgot about that. Once again making this trade look worse-and-worse. It's actually worse than my original assessment of it, which wasn't good.
My support for SVG ran out a season ago. Time for a different direction. This thing is headed nowhere for the forseeable future.Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
Stephen A has turned on SVG. Now it's definitely all over....Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
Well, we've wasted another perfectly good winter semi-paying attention to this moribund franchise. I'm frankly a little confused as to why they are even still fielding a team at this point. There are probably only a handful of actual Pistons fans left in the world, and even fewer that are still paying attention to any degree. I'm not even sure Gores is a Pistons fan.
If/when we fire SVG and blow it all up and start over....so what? Nothing is going to change. The roster is stuck, no one wants to come to Detroit, and we have zero tradeable assets. Why would anyone even want to coach this team at this point?
The Pistons should just have a raffle, and whoever wins gets to coach the team next year. What's the worst that could happen? We'd be more irrelevant than we are right now?Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
I wonder if they'll let SVG stay for his last year, if the rumor is true about asking him to step down from the front office but still coach, he might just exit on his own. On the other hand, he still has the "when Reggie is healthy, we're like 10 games over .500" or whatever the record is with him excuse.
It's a bummer to have the roster built for his antiquated offense, so if he does leave we'll be stuck with this crap roster and a coach not likely suited to coach it. We have a Blake/Dre/Reggie "big three" if you wanna call it that, and if we're stuck with that no matter what, we might end up with another year of StanWolverines Wings Same Old Lions Tigers Pistons Erika ChristensenComment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
Yeah, I wanted SVG fired a year ago. At this point...why bother to fire him now? I suppose the argument is if you aren't going to extend him (and heaven help us if that's even on the table....), why waste everyone's time with a lame-duck coach for an entire season?
However, the counter-argument is that while you do a thorough and exhaustive search for the best possible replacement for head coach and GM (which, by the way, is 2 separate f'n jobs!!!) - something which may take the better part of a season - get your "process" started with SVG since he's still under contract. If he happens to win in the process, fine. But it's unlikely the team will be significantly better, and if the losing continues, well it's all part of the broader plan. Even if we got this team to the playoffs next year, so what? We're building towards absolutely nothing in the long term with this roster, unless your goal is to max out as the 8-seed in the East and your ceiling is a first-round sweep.
No one on the current roster will be on the team the next time this is a consistently competitive franchise. Blame the team president. Blame the GM. Blame the coach. It all basically boils down to the same problem.Comment
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Re: ***Official Detroit Pistons Thread***
Too little, too late. We're stuck in cap hell with a (very) low ceiling. But I suppose better late than never.
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