Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I don't even mind if people want to use people with good head movement as examples, just why do you focus on the flashy ones? Aldo is probably the best defensive fighter in MMA history and uses small slips and constant pre-emptive head movement and I can't recall him being mentioned once. Not everyone should be able to do Anderson or Cody type ****, but everyone should (ideally) be able to do Aldo type ****, just way less consistently.

As I've said earlier in this thread, don't want it in 3, would be cool in a future game but isn't super high on the list of stuff that needs improvement.

I've mentioned it a thousand times already and given the Aldo/Holloway rematch as an example. All fighters should be able to do small slips.

Implementing this in the right way does not mean that everyone is going to be running around pulling off Cody-esque head movement. You can do it now but you didn't see that in the beta, did you?

[Nugget7211]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I've mentioned it a thousand times already and given the Aldo/Holloway rematch as an example. All fighters should be able to do small slips.

Implementing this in the right way does not mean that everyone is going to be running around pulling off Cody-esque head movement. You can do it now but you didn't see that in the beta, did you?

It shouldn't be possible though, same way I don't want to see DC throwing tornado kicks or Khabib throwing spinning back kicks, or even at a more basic level I don't want to see Wonderboy wrestling people or Khabib putting on outside fighting clinics. I don't care if it's difficult, I don't want it to be possible.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It shouldn't be possible though, same way I don't want to see DC throwing tornado kicks or Khabib throwing spinning back kicks, or even at a more basic level I don't want to see Wonderboy wrestling people or Khabib putting on outside fighting clinics. I don't care if it's difficult, I don't want it to be possible.

Okay, but then you're saying you have an issue with the current system anyway. That's what I'm getting at. This change isn't going to change that. It ALREADY is possible. That's all I'm trying to get across. It was also possible in UFC 2 but nobody complained about it then. Why? Because it was really, really hard. And you barely ever saw anyone slipping three punch combos. This is a complete non-issue in my mind. A tornado kick comes from a press of a couple of buttons. It's not the same thing.

That said, if people are really that anal about this... Just make it possible to slip in 8 directions instead of 4. Or make 360 head movement possible but balance it with stats and give fighters like Cody and Silva special perks.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I don't even mind if people want to use people with good head movement as examples, just why do you focus on the flashy ones? Aldo is probably the best defensive fighter in MMA history and uses small slips and constant pre-emptive head movement and I can't recall him being mentioned once. Not everyone should be able to do Anderson or Cody type ****, but everyone should (ideally) be able to do Aldo type ****, just way less consistently.

As I've said earlier in this thread, don't want it in 3, would be cool in a future game but isn't super high on the list of stuff that needs improvement.

I would be in favor of everyone being able to do small quick slips like that with the head movement rating determining how fast. Thats also an example of a baby step that may be possible to do using the current system.

[Nugget7211]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Okay, but then you're saying you have an issue with the current system anyway. That's what I'm getting at. This change isn't going to change that. It ALREADY is possible. That's all I'm trying to get across. It was also possible in UFC 2 but nobody complained about it then. Why? Because it was really, really hard. And you barely ever saw anyone slipping three punch combos. This is a complete non-issue in my mind. A tornado kick comes from a press of a couple of buttons. It's not the same thing.

That said, if people are really that anal about this... Just make it possible to slip in 8 directions instead of 4. Or make 360 head movement possible but balance it with stats and give fighters like Cody and Silva special perks.

It's exactly the same thing as a tornado kick, because it's giving a fighter a capability they don't have, which is bad for realism.

I don't think the head movement now if perfect, I think it's fine though and don't want to see rushed 360 head movement or universal 360 head movement because I think that'd be worse. If they increased it to 8 directions, or even just removed the weird return to the center line and changed how big the slips are, and maybe gave a few specific fighters like Cody and Anderson signature head movement in the same vein as signature lunges that some fighters have, I think that would be better than universal 360 head movement, because I don't care how good you get at the game, I don't want you to be able to tornado kick or do cody type **** as DC

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Okay, but then you're saying you have an issue with the current system anyway. That's what I'm getting at. This change isn't going to change that. It ALREADY is possible. That's all I'm trying to get across. It was also possible in UFC 2 but nobody complained about it then. Why? Because it was really, really hard. And you barely ever saw anyone slipping three punch combos. This is a complete non-issue in my mind. A tornado kick comes from a press of a couple of buttons. It's not the same thing.

That said, if people are really that anal about this... Just make it possible to slip in 8 directions instead of 4. Or make 360 head movement possible but balance it with stats and give fighters like Cody and Silva special perks.

It just makes it worse lol. Nugget is arguing the same thing I am. I dont like the fact that everyone can chain together bobs and weaves now and you want to add slips to that and make it so that its more "fluid/smoother/natural" (I removed realistic because Evan Dunham slipping strikes like that is realistic even if its slower than Anderson).

Whats crazy is people are in favor of making it easier for the fighters who are good at it....and that still isnt enough for yall. LOL. I want a fighter using Anderson to be able to do what the .gif shows without much difficulty. I also want a fighter using Nik Lentz to struggle with it (just like they would now). I dont want it to be fluid/smooth/natural for Lentz and 90% of the roster because it isnt smooth in real life.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It's exactly the same thing as a tornado kick, because it's giving a fighter a capability they don't have, which is bad for realism.

I don't think the head movement now if perfect, I think it's fine though and don't want to see rushed 360 head movement or universal 360 head movement because I think that'd be worse. If they increased it to 8 directions, or even just removed the weird return to the center line and changed how big the slips are, and maybe gave a few specific fighters like Cody and Anderson signature head movement in the same vein as signature lunges that some fighters have, I think that would be better than universal 360 head movement, because I don't care how good you get at the game, I don't want you to be able to tornado kick or do cody type **** as DC

It's not. Throwing a tornado kick is guaranteed. Pulling off Cody-esque head movement with DC (presuming the stats are balanced right) is very far from guaranteed. You didn't see people pulling off Cody head movement at all in UFC 2. However if the player is good enough and wants to take that risk... They should be able to. Just like irl. ****, Pulling off Cody head movement with Cody won't be guaranteed.

However, I'd settle for the changes you've mentioned too. People would still be able to pull off Cody head movement with the changes you mentioned as well though. Just like they can now. I'm a broken record now tho so I'm out. I'm annoying myself. lol

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It just makes it worse lol. Nugget is arguing the same thing I am. I dont like the fact that everyone can chain together bobs and weaves now and you want to add slips to that and make it so that its more "fluid/smoother/natural" (I removed realistic because Evan Dunham slipping strikes like that is realistic even if its slower than Anderson).

Whats crazy is people are in favor of making it easier for the fighters who are good at it....and that still isnt enough for yall. LOL. I want a fighter using Anderson to be able to do what the .gif shows without much difficulty. I also want a fighter using Nik Lentz to struggle with it (just like they would now). I dont want it to be fluid/smooth/natural for Lentz and 90% of the roster because it isnt smooth in real life.

Okay. Now we're getting somewhere.

Nik Lents does not move his head at set angles though. Nobody does. That's why more control is better. I don't think it'd make it worse. I just think it would feel better and heighten realism. It'd still be hard. Do you remember how hard it was in UFC 2?

I feel like you two are picturing everyone moving their head around like Cody with ease all the time. If this change is done correctly... That's not what will happen at all.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Okay. Now we're getting somewhere.

Nik Lents does not move his head at set angles though. Nobody does. That's why more control is better. I don't think it'd make it worse. I just think it would feel better and heighten realism. It'd still be hard. Do you remember how hard it was in UFC 2?

I feel like you two are picturing everyone moving their head around like Cody with ease all the time. If this change is done correctly... That's not what will happen at all.

I do and I think its easier in UFC 3. Not as easy as say FNC (which I loved) but its an improvement.

Also, are we making the argument that this change should be made for UFC 3? Like I said before, there is a long list of things that I think the devs should add by patch before we get to 360 head movement. Things that are more beneficial to the gameplay and less time consuming (and potentially buggy). This makes sense as something to look at for UFC 4.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Regarding moving the stick 30% vs going 100% whilst keeping the analogue 1 / 0 system as opposed to a 360 volleyball system:



Final point, going into the coloured / safe zones makes your counters deliver with damage whereas staying in the centre zone keeps them regular.

Where the colour starts, your 1 / 0 system kicks in.

Not sure if this is a good solution but it could very well be an improvement in terms of giving us more control.

Also, really struggling to remember if we are forced to go through centre line when switching so can't answer your question Solid. I do recall being annoyed that punches force your head back to centre though.

If we go with the 4 direction system, the amount we move the stick should correspond to how far our character's head moves, a quick flick should be a 100% movement to the edge of that character's head zone so a slip.

Can we have GPD see this please???

I think this is a very fair compromise. It’s still more movement and control but isnt changed drastically. Also need to remove when punches knock you back to centerline. If you get staggered sure but if you roll with /away from a punch you should be able to still use head movement.

To compensate for the buff to head movement just make it so that you’re at a huge disadvantage in terms of GA. Also chaining sways should take some long term stamina (head movement rating would dictate how quickly stamina depletes)

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Putting aside the issue of whether the controls even would allow this

It's definitely impossible in practice. I just said it to clarify my stance.

this is the issue I have:

Lets use the spinning back fist as an example. The SBF isnt a hard move to do. I could teach your mom to do it in less than 5 minutes. I'd argue that every MMA fighter is capable of doing at least an extremely poor version of it.

So back in 2016 when the UFC 2 trailers came out, one showed (I believe it was) Aldo doing a SBF. Now I dont believe Aldo has ever done one in a UFC fight. Some of the same people in here who are arguing for "360 movement for everyone!" were FLIPPING THE **** OUT on the old forums because Aldo had that move in his moveset.

They werent saying "I'd be ok with it if there was a ****tier version of the SBF". It wasnt because the move could be OP (In fact, when it was suggested that the move level could be low making the strike less powerful, they didnt care).They were making the same arguments that I am. That it was a bad look to have someone who doesnt throw SBFs have the ability to do so in the game.

Now this is Jose Aldo. One of the most athletic fighters of all time and people werent OK with him even having the ability to do basic spinning attacks because he hasnt attempted them in a fight.

Again, I wouldn't have minded if it was a slow, weak, clumsy, inaccurate, off balance spinning back fist.

GSP is athletic and extremely talented but watching him learn how to throw a spinning back kick from Joe Rogan makes it clear that that doesn't mean you can throw every strike perfectly. So unless we've seen fighters throw a certain strike, assume they're terrible at it.

The problem with doing that though is that you'd have to create animations for moves that will effectively be useless. So from a practical standpoint it's better to just remove that strike from a fighters move set.

With that said, I didnt completely agree but it was consistent. They wanted complete realism. So its wild to see some of the same people who bitch constantly about realism in movesets are ok with all fighters given 360 movement (which is arguably a move) and the ability to chain slower versions of Anderson like head movement.

Head movement isn't a move, it's a basic human ability.. It's literally just you moving. I haven't seen the majority of fighters run, but they're all able to run in UFC3 because it's also a basic human ability.

If done right, the majority of the cast should move their heads like this:



That's nowhere near what Anderson Silva and Cody Garbrandt can do. And it would diminish over time as fatigue and body damage starts taking its toll.

If implemented correctly it shouldn't lead to people trying to reenact The Matrix because the stats won't allow it to be that overpowered and the risk reward should deter people from trying it anyway or get knocked.

Last thing: If people want to give examples of why everyone should have 360 movement, can we stop using guys like Cody, Anderson and Shogun? Can yall come with some .gifs of mid level - lower level chaining sways together? That would go a long way in convincing others that everyone needs 360 movement.

[MalformedDC2009]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It's not. Throwing a tornado kick is guaranteed. Pulling off Cody-esque head movement with DC (presuming the stats are balanced right) is very far from guaranteed. You didn't see people pulling off Cody head movement at all in UFC 2. However if the player is good enough and wants to take that risk... They should be able to. Just like irl. ****, Pulling off Cody head movement with Cody won't be guaranteed.

However, I'd settle for the changes you've mentioned too. People would still be able to pull off Cody head movement with the changes you mentioned as well though. Just like they can now. I'm a broken record now tho so I'm out. I'm annoying myself. lol

I would also settle for increasing head movement to 8 directions as well. It's a solution within the existing digital framework that works for now. Slight slips based on how much you move the right stick would be awesome too.



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[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It's not. ]Throwing a tornado kick is guaranteed. Pulling off Cody-esque head movement with DC (presuming the stats are balanced right) is very far from guaranteed. You didn't see people pulling off Cody head movement at all in UFC 2. However if the player is good enough and wants to take that risk... They should be able to. Just like irl. ****, Pulling off Cody head movement with Cody won't be guaranteed.

However, I'd settle for the changes you've mentioned too. People would still be able to pull off Cody head movement with the changes you mentioned as well though. Just like they can now. I'm a broken record now tho so I'm out. I'm annoying myself. lol

This 100%. Hell, even with the tools we were given in UFC 2, it was very rare for me to encounter opponents who used much head movement at all. Nevermind them being any good at it.

In the UFC 3 beta, I mostly saw guys relying on the modified bumper sway, when smaller movements are typically used throughout the duration of a fight. But those smaller movements just weren't responsive enough during our short time with the game.

Giving us a system that provides a natural and smooth range of motion isn't going to turn everyone into some bullet time, Max Payne/Ip Man. The fighter attributes and the skills of both users are all things that would dictate effectiveness.


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[Not_Entertained]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Only because there's no mom-level standing elbow animation.


I'm in favor of giving everyone everything. But again, with varying degrees of usefulness and finesse.

If you want to attempt a wheel-kick with Roy Nelson and barely see him lift his foot higher than his knee and potentially slip and KO himself on the floor because he can't do it, I don't think the game should stop you from being able to try.

The deterrent should be in the risk-reward of using said techniques with fighters who don't use them in real life, not by artificially denying players access to them.

PERFECTLY explained! I agree 100%

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Everybody uses small slips. EVERYBODY. It's extremely common that fighters exchange straight punches on the outside and try to dodge each others by moving their head off the center line.

360 movement should still be in the game for everyone imo. It should just be harder with some than others. ****, it should even be quite hard with Cody and Anderson. Slipping 3-4 punches in a row I mean. The thing everybody seems to be missing is that you can do that anyway now so I still have no idea what you guys are talking about. All you'd be doing is giving the player more control and making it flow better. It'd feel amazing to have that kind of control but still be able to move your feet. It would improve the game a lot instantly imo. Imagine how it'd feel to have that control. I dream about it

It's definitely impossible in practice. I just said it to clarify my stance.



Again, I wouldn't have minded if it was a slow, weak, clumsy, inaccurate, off balance spinning back fist.

GSP is athletic and extremely talented but watching him learn how to throw a spinning back kick from Joe Rogan makes it clear that that doesn't mean you can throw every strike perfectly. So unless we've seen fighters throw a certain strike, assume they're terrible at it.

The problem with doing that though is that you'd have to create animations for moves that will effectively be useless. So from a practical standpoint it's better to just remove that strike from a fighters move set.



Head movement isn't a move, it's a basic human ability.. It's literally just you moving. I haven't seen the majority of fighters run, but they're all able to run in UFC3 because it's also a basic human ability.

If done right, the majority of the cast should move their heads like this:





That's nowhere near what Anderson Silva and Cody Garbrandt can do. And it would diminish over time as fatigue and body damage starts taking its toll.

If implemented correctly it shouldn't lead to people trying to reenact The Matrix because the stats won't allow it to be that overpowered and the risk reward should deter people from trying it anyway or get knocked.

Funny enough I disagree with this. Decent Head movement is not something everyone posseses. It takes a lot of practice and most fighters are poor at it.

I like the idea of guys with weaker head movement keeping the basic 4 directions and guys with higher head movement having acess to the 8 directions.

Can any gamechangers or GPD please confirm that other post that detailed an improved head movement system was viewed by the Dev team?

If they dont like it then it is what it is. But i want to make sure it was at least looked at. I will literally repost it every page if I have to lol