Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

If I just did it without purpose it would not enhance the game at all.

You'd be excited about the reveal trailer, and then complain that it didn't do what you wanted. Because it wouldn't.

Honestly I feel like if we had UFC 2's range of head movement it'd be great (but keep the ability to move your feet while moving your head). Not just because of being able to pull off certain things in game easier....

It'd be more aesthetically pleasing. It'd bring more realism. More control. More immersion. That's what I meant when I said it'd enhance the game.

Head movement is ****ing cool man. And the fact that it is the primary defence now is great. But if it's going to be the primary defence... We should have more control.

[aholbert32]

Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

This thread is making me sad...



So much resistance to something that would better the game and bring more realism and control. It would make the game more dynamic. The notion that it wouldn't change the game at all is just untrue. Please stop saying that. The denial is just irritating at this point. I and many others have explained what it'd add.



There's also many more than 5 people gunning for this lol. There's more than 5 in this single thread.



I just don't understand why there is so much resistance for something that is clearly a great idea.



The idea that it'd be unrealistic because fighters don't move their head as well as that is not an argument when there are ways of utilising head movement in UFC 3 that fighters do not do. In UFC 2 as well. So let's put that one to the side as nonsense pleaseeee.



This hasn't been a fair discussion so far. There's so many invalid and plain objectively wrong points on the opposing side. It's really frustrating man. If we're not going to do it... Let's not do it because it's difficult to implement (which is why I think there's quite a bit of resistance honestly).

Ok 7 people. Lol. You, Haz, Diasuk, phillyboi, notentertained, Pappy and Aydin. Others like me have said they are ok with only certain guys having it.

Just because you post about a subject a lot doesn’t make you automatically correct.


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[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It'd be more aesthetically pleasing. It'd bring more realism. More control. More immersion. That's what I meant when I said it'd enhance the game.

You're right, I should have said it wouldn't enhance the gameplay.

It's very important to understand if the motivation for this is primarily aesthetics. There's nothing at all wrong with that being the motivation.

In a lot of ways it makes it an easier problem to solve.

That's why I ask the probing questions from a mechanics standpoint.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Ok 7 people. Lol. You, Haz, Diasuk, phillyboi, Pappy and Aydin. Others like me have said they are ok with only certain guys having it.

Just because you post about a subject a lot doesn’t make you automatically correct.


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Those are the people in this thread. This forum has like 15 active users at a time also lol. Other people have said the same thing in other threads and the comments are liked.

I'd understand you saying it's not the majority on reddit or something (it would be if someone made a post about it... nobody doesn't want more control lol) but it definitely is on this forum.

I love you guys and don't want to argue and cause disruption over this but your opinions suck < / 3

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

You're right, I should have said it wouldn't enhance the gameplay.

It's very important to understand if the motivation for this is primarily aesthetics. There's nothing at all wrong with that being the motivation.

In a lot of ways it makes it an easier problem to solve.

That's why I ask the probing questions from a mechanics standpoint.

Right. I get you. It's a mix for me (gameplay and aesthetics). With that said, not being able to experiment with the head movement on UFC 3 right now is probably going to make this a little harder. I'm about to go to sleep though. I'll try and give my view on this in a detailed but concise way tomorrow. In the meantime.... someone else can tag in.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Those are the people in this thread. This forum has like 15 active users at a time also lol. Other people have said the same thing in other threads and the comments are liked.

I'd understand you saying it's not the majority on reddit or something (it would be if someone made a post about it... nobody doesn't want more control lol) but it definitely is on this forum.

I love you guys and don't want to argue and cause disruption over this but your opinions suck < / 3

lol. It’s not other people. It’s the same guys in different threads. It doesn’t make their opinion less valid but let’s not act like y’all represent the majority.

Again, people including myself agree that head movement should be a little more responsive. Many of us agree that it should be 360 for guys like Anderson and Cody.

That’s 2/3 of your damn argument.

What we don’t agree on is if someone like Nik Lentz should have the ability to chain sways together like ****ing Shogun. Even if they are slower, that’s just a horrible look for the game. Lol.


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[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

What we don’t agree on is if someone like Nik Lentz should have the ability to chain sways together like ****ing Shogun. Even if they are slower, that’s just a horrible look for the game. Lol.

Stop saying this right now or I'm jumping out my window!!1!!111!!. Nik Lentz does not bob and weave all over the place either. You can do that with him in UFC 3 though. With all due respect, what about that are you not understanding?

[aholbert32]

Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Stop saying this right now or I'm jumping out my window!!1!!111!!. Nik Lentz does not bob and weave all over the place either. You can do that with him in UFC 3 though. With all due respect, what about that are you not understanding?

Nik Lentz has bobbed in a fight. Nik Lentz has weaved in a fight. He hasn’t chained sways.


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[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Nik Lentz has bobbed in a fight. Nik Lentz has weaved in a fight. He hasn’t chained sways.


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He hasn't chained bobs and weaves either

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

He hasn't chained bobs and weaves either

Not true but I’ll drop it. Gpd has already responded so I’m hoping that this will be enough for you guys.


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[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Not true but I’ll drop it. Gpd has already responded so I’m hoping that this will be enough for you guys.


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Bro.... how often do you see average UFC guys chaining bobbing and weaving like it's done in the beta? You're telling me that all MMA fighters do that regularly? Please just stop.

I'm all for that being in the game for the record...

MMA is a different ball game so crazy/excessive head movement like that is dangerous if you don't know when to do it and at what range. It's punishable. If anyone did that in the beta recklessly... I'd just KO them. Which is what will happen if you try Cody-esque head movement with the wrong fighter (skill level of the individual player will play it's role too). You don't think average fighters never chain together slips like Cody either? He's just very, very good at it from years of boxing experience.

You don't have a point here. Chaining together crazy head movement is already possible in UFC 3. You can even side lean to the left, then to the right, and then pull. You can do that with any fighter. That is what Anderson does.

This argument is a completely invalid one man. Period. You're just wrong here.

I don't want to come across like I'm arguing just to be right or anything but this has been brought up time and time again... And it makes no sense. Anyway, I'm tapping out and going to bed. I can't explain it any further.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

So... you want the analog press to be about the speed with which you move your head in that direction, not how far you go?

Both.

The speed at which you move your right stick should be the speed at which you actually move your head. And the distance you move your stick from neutral to all the way out should be how far your fighter moves his head in that direction.

Capped by stats obviously. So no teleportation.

The question though, is what advantage do you gain by only moving your head 30%? Why note move it all the way every time?

Presumably a faster counter right?

Among other things yes.

But like I said, full sways are tiring. You don't want to move more than you have to. If you see your opponent threatening a punch, you might twitch in a certain direction, just in case he throws it and go all the way to avoid it if they do. But if they don't, there's no need to do the full motion.

That's how UFC 3 works. You can interrupt the sway at any point with a counter strike.

Benefit being an earlier intercept the catch vulnerability or intercept a strike, risk being that you cut off the head movement early and risk eating a strike if you mis-time it.

I don't necessarily want to strike after slipping a punch though. Sometimes you just want to avoid the hit, and gain information.

Are they baiting you into countering? - Don't want to punch then.
Are they volume punchers? - Might want to interrupt my current sway with a different sway.
Are they overextending? - I'll counter punch them next time they do it.
Will they shoot for a take down immediately afterwards? - Definitely don't want to sway longer than necessary cause grappling advantage but don't want to punch either.

You don't necessarily have the answer to those questions. So you might just want to barely slip whatever punch they're throwing and reset the situation to gauge whether or not a counter is even feasible.

Like this



And once you're confident, you start countering like Aldo did.

The second half of the gif you see Hominick trying to slip and counter Aldo, by interrupting his sway with a strike. Didn't turn out too well.





Like I said in previous posts, head movement isn't just timing about avoiding punches. And avoiding punches isn't just about timing your sway.

There's distance management, gauging your opponents speed/reach/positioning, conditioning your opponent to throw certain strikes, etc.

When you only have 4 directions and it's fundamentally rock-paper-scissors all the intricacies that make head movement both powerful and dangerous in real life are lost.

So other than the feeling of one to one, I don't know what the analogue system actually gives you that we don't already have.

I'm not asking to be a dick, I just want to understand.

You're not a dick at all. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say the fact that you're even entertaining our ideas is very much appreciated. I'm a fan of yours. :o

That said, I'm also a fan of fighting games (I play one professionally) and real life MMA. So if I see something I thing can be improved on I'll always try my best to give detailed feedback.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Bro.... how often do you see average UFC guys chaining bobbing and weaving like it's done in the beta? You're telling me that all MMA fighters do that regularly? Please just stop.

I'm all for that being in the game for the record...

MMA is a different ball game so crazy/excessive head movement like that is dangerous if you don't know when to do it and at what range. It's punishable. If anyone did that in the beta recklessly... I'd just KO them. Which is what will happen if you try Cody-esque head movement with the wrong fighter (skill level of the individual player will play it's role too). You don't think average fighters never chain together slips like Cody either? He's just very, very good at it from years of boxing experience.

You don't have a point here. Chaining together crazy head movement is already possible in UFC 3. You can even side lean to the left, then to the right, and then pull. You can do that with any fighter. That is what Anderson does.

This argument is a completely invalid one man. Period. You're just wrong here.

Nah.

The point has never been that it wasn’t punishable. Your argument is that because a bad mechanic (everybody being able to chain bob and weaves even if they don’t do it in real life) is in the game that we should add to that bad mechanic by making it so every body can chain sways (just slower)like Cody.

I think that’s a dumb argument. Especially coming from a forum that is constantly arguing about realism.

Anyway like I said, gpd responded so continue to push for it. I would appreciate if y’all kept it in one thread though. The ****ing stamina thread somehow turned into a head movement thread.


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[Benjy7]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

The main reason is because to blindy replace ufc 3's head movement system with say UFC 2's head movement system, which is both 360 and analog, would destroy the benefits the new system has brought to the table.

So to move forward, we have to make sure that any improvements made don't do that.

So it's important to deconstruct the problem and go beyond the surface of what people are saying they want, to figure out what they actually want.

Then, once we understand that, we can devise a way to implement it.

Thank you for explaining GPD. This is basically my whole point as to why some ideas the community has for the game are not all needed because they'll, 1. unbalance the game or 2. Break a system thats specifically built for UFC3. Meaning the developers will have to redo the system back from square 1. Lets see how the game is when it releases and we can update it from there on

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I can't make a video for every forum argument as it takes too much time to get videos of unreleased games approved.

If someone still has the beta, post a video of pull counters with Conor.

One where you input the straight immediately after inputing the back sway, and another when you input the strike at the apex of the sway, and one where you input the strike half way back to center.

The difference should be pretty obvious.

I want to know why that's not enough.

not because I don't agree that it's not enough, because I need to know what about this is insufficient.

I'll admit my memory is skewed on headmovement at this point, I can watch videos that I recorded, but that doesn't mean I remember my exact inputs or how responsive/appropriate it felt.

No beta access for me to try any of that sadly.. I think that's the biggest issue with all our debates on head movement at this point, it was both A) Very new to us all and B) we probably didn't use it enough to be able to say confidently where issues lie, I would have played 80-100 hours of that beta while it was up at the cost of my sleeping pattern and I was still trying to understand and get truly used to and comfortable with it all.

Which is not to say its poorly designed, its just deeeeeep, so, I feel that even looking back on it my arguments are slightly skewed from both the fact it was a beta, and the fact we don't have the game yet to try these things. Stamina was an obviously needed tweak, that was pretty much unianimous, but headmovement is a very varied debate that I think needs to wait for the full release..

Or a offline demo.. it'd be the ultimate christmas present. :P (Edit: well, post Christmas. Whenever the game goes Gold)

Atleast, that's how I'm starting to feel on head movement.