Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

[Serengeti1]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

I’d really love to see video of your style so I can have my friend replicate it.

Im interested if it’s really that difficult to get away.

I don't think a video will tell you much either way but I'll try to get one up with a good player today. It's very easy to critique a video but until you experience it yourself it's difficult to understand.

It would look very simple and dull on video. And it is. But that's the point... It's so simple, yet so easy to implement.

I know AI is different but I actually went through the whole of career mode on pro this way with a KO in the first round every time. Finished undefeated.

[stephengreen]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

How do you deal with body shots if you're holding high block?

[YourFatZebra]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

I feel like the biggest issue is the footwork and the damage you're able to do to someone holding high block walking forward. So any buffs to footwork would help. This idea that you can simply lunge back and create distance is not true when playing a competent player who only wants to fight on the inside. Any kind of stiff arming would help also. But I don't think different strikes being added is the answer as it's so easy to just walk straight up to your opponent chest to chest. There are already decent options with strikes to throw on the outside but it's so easy to walk past them and keep high block held and stick to your opponent like glue.

Are you saying the damage that you're able to do to an opponent who is walking forward holding high block, or the damage they are able to do to you?

Cause I often find myself fighting people online who just drain my stamina with body shots and hide behind their unbreakable block. I can never throw anything to break it. Higher weight classes do not have the short term stamina to throw these block-breaker combos I keep seeing people mention but never see video examples of. So I end up trying to use fakes/head movement/footwork to set up an angle and an opening, never works. They just hold block the entire time waiting for me to throw a shot that hits their block so they can counter. There's gotta be something that can be done to remedy that, it's damn annoying when you're winning a fight and the guy realizes it and goes into "Unbreakable Block" mode, walking you down with no regard to his health because all you can do is throw body shots anyways. He's already worn your stamina so low that it doesn't matter. He'll wait for you to land a shot on his block and counter. Nothing you can do about it unless you know one of these mystical block-breaker combos I keep seeing referenced but still have not physically seen with my eyes.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

I don't think a video will tell you much either way but I'll try to get one up with a good player today. It's very easy to critique a video but until you experience it yourself it's difficult to understand.

It would look very simple and dull on video. And it is. But that's the point... It's so simple, yet so easy to implement.

I know AI is different but I actually went through the whole of career mode on pro this way with a KO in the first round every time. Finished undefeated.

I get it.

Did you ever watch the videos i posted btw?

[Serengeti1]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

Are you saying the damage that you're able to do to an opponent who is walking forward holding high block, or the damage they are able to do to you?

Cause I often find myself fighting people online who just drain my stamina with body shots and hide behind their unbreakable block. I can never throw anything to break it. Higher weight classes do not have the short term stamina to throw these block-breaker combos I keep seeing people mention but never see video examples of. So I end up trying to use fakes/head movement/footwork to set up an angle and an opening, never works. They just hold block the entire time waiting for me to throw a shot that hits their block so they can counter. There's gotta be something that can be done to remedy that, it's damn annoying when you're winning a fight and the guy realizes it and goes into "Unbreakable Block" mode, walking you down with no regard to his health because all you can do is throw body shots anyways. He's already worn your stamina so low that it doesn't matter. He'll wait for you to land a shot on his block and counter. Nothing you can do about it unless you know one of these mystical block-breaker combos I keep seeing referenced but still have not physically seen with my eyes.

The damage you're able to do to them. They also shouldn't be so quick on their feet while holding a block that shields them from literally everything lol. When you walk forward with your hands up... You're slower and your block isn't going to be as reliable as you're focusing on getting in range.

You can break blocks but it's not effective against someone who isn't hurt so it's pretty irrelevant.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

I get it.

Did you ever watch the videos i posted btw?

Just did.

So in the Woodley/Punk one... The Woodley player is spamming hooks that you're blocking and then backing off and creating distance himself because of the stamina loss. He's not in your face all of the time. I'm not just bull-rushing forward and gassing myself when I do it. I'm just walking forward holding high block and throwing the occasional counter.

In the Bisping/Johnson fight I don't really see how either player is being extremely aggressive. Like I'm talking the moment the fight starts until it ends.... Constantly holding the analogue in the direction of my opponent while holding block. If done right... Your opponent can do nothing about it and has to fight you on the inside for the whole fight.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

Just did.

So in the Woodley/Punk one... The Woodley player is spamming hooks that you're blocking and then backing off and creating distance himself because of the stamina loss. He's not in your face all of the time. I'm not just bull-rushing forward and gassing myself when I do it. I'm just walking forward holding high block and throwing the occasional counter.

In the Bisping/Johnson fight I don't really see how either player is being extremely aggressive. Like I'm talking the moment the fight starts until it ends.... Constantly holding the analogue in the direction of my opponent while holding block. If done right... Your opponent can do nothing about it and has to fight you on the inside for the whole fight.

The Bisping Johnson(Im Bisping) he gave up trying to chase because I kept making him whiff. He started off fairly aggressive.

And i get what you mean. You’re just walkin forward to pressure but only throwing counter shots.

What do you do when someone back dashes then sits on a leg kick?

[YourFatZebra]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

The damage you're able to do to them. They also shouldn't be so quick on their feet while holding a block that shields them from literally everything lol. When you walk forward with your hands up... You're slower and your block isn't going to be as reliable as you're focusing on getting in range.

You can break blocks but it's not effective against someone who isn't hurt so it's pretty irrelevant.

Okay yeah, then we might be having similar experiences online.

Because as I was reading what you were saying it was sounding like what I'm dealing with just in different words.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

The Bisping Johnson(Im Bisping) he gave up trying to chase because I kept making him whiff. He started off fairly aggressive.

And i get what you mean. You’re just walkin forward to pressure but only throwing counter shots.

What do you do when someone back dashes then sits on a leg kick?

Keep pressuring and land a upper/hook or both. Or maybe go to the body. The back dashes just aren't effective enough when someone is coming forward all the time. They work if the opponent is already at a bit of distance but yeah.

Okay yeah, then we might be having similar experiences online.

Because as I was reading what you were saying it was sounding like what I'm dealing with just in different words.

I'm actually the one doing it a lot of the time. So this isn't just coming from someone who is getting their *** beat (I'm not saying that's you). I love technical striking though and just wish it wasn't so easy to force a brawl. But it's even unrealistic in terms of brawls. You can have fights where there is literally no distance at any point in the fight between the two fighters.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

I'm actually the one doing it a lot of the time. So this isn't just coming from someone who is getting their *** beat (I'm not saying that's you). I love technical striking though and just wish it wasn't so easy to force a brawl. But it's even unrealistic in terms of brawls. You can have fights where there is literally no distance at any point in the fight between the two fighters.

Oh yeah believe me, I know. It's ****ing annoying trying to be an outside kickboxer like I have in past games when me and my opponent are moving in what is essentially unison. This "back dash" people keep mentioning must be some sort of sick joke or something. Because all I see is a tiny skip that's not much different than just leaning back. Occasionally it will allow me to jump back from a body/leg kick. But other than that I fail to see how this is useful.

Was I the only one who loved the way that sliding/lunging worked in UFC 2? Where you could walk with the left stick, quickly flick the stick to step one way or another, hold down LB to do the lunges. I don't know what about that had to change. Especially with head movement on the right stick now. Why can't flicking the left stick do a step? Can't even express how much that would help me out.

[Haz____]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

Lunging was so much better in UFC 2.

You could actually hop into the pocket, throw some strikes then slide right back out of the pocket.

Outside fighting was my bread n butter in UFC 2.

UFC 3 you kinda just float around. You can kinnnda fight on the outside, but your just nowhere near as snappy and responsive as UFC 2, so it's soooo much harder.

Jab feels really wierd in UFC 3 also, and thats a big deal.

IN UFC 2, I could fight an entire round just throwing different jabs, picking an opponent apart.

Jab. Lunging jab, Leaning jab. Low jab, High jab. And it felt stiff and solid. Being able to lunge in quickly with a jab was huge. I felt like I could time people, and just slid in and jab at the perfect time to mess them up. Not so much in UFC 3....

In UFC 3 you like flick out a jab weirdly with no weight or stiffness, and there is no power behind it. Lean jab doesn't work like it used to. Lunging Jab so soooo slow, awkward and useless. Trying to time a whiff, or start up frames and hop in with a jab is way way too slow, you just slowly lumber in with a hop and a skip then throw a weak weightless jab...

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

Lunging was so much better in UFC 2.

You could actually hop into the pocket, throw some strikes then slide right back out of the pocket.

Outside fighting was my bread n butter in UFC 2.

UFC 3 you kinda just float around. You can kinnnda fight on the outside, but your just nowhere near as snappy and responsive as UFC 2, so it's soooo much harder.

Jab feels really wierd in UFC 3 also, and thats a big deal.

IN UFC 2, I could fight an entire round just throwing different jabs, picking an opponent apart.

Bab. hop in jab, leaning jab. Low jab, hi jab. And it felt stiff and solid. I felt like I could time people, and just slid in and jab at the perfect time to mess them up. Not so much in UFC 3.

I agree with the footwork. It's very hard to stay on the outside and keep the distance... even with good out fighters like Wonderboy.

The jab is less reliable because of the new head movement and vulnerability, everyone just ducks and uppercuts. It could be the level of jab like I notice a huge difference when using Whittaker/GSP to every other fighter. Not sure if you've tried those guys.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

A big part of the issue is the movement speed while holding high block. You move at the same speed whether you're holding it or not. In UFC 2 you would move significantly slower. The lunges and footwork were easier to utilise as well. But a lot of that may be to do with the block not being as OP.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

Lunging was so much better in UFC 2.

You could actually hop into the pocket, throw some strikes then slide right back out of the pocket.

Outside fighting was my bread n butter in UFC 2.

UFC 3 you kinda just float around. You can kinnnda fight on the outside, but your just nowhere near as snappy and responsive as UFC 2, so it's soooo much harder.

Jab feels really wierd in UFC 3 also, and thats a big deal.

IN UFC 2, I could fight an entire round just throwing different jabs, picking an opponent apart.

Jab. Lunging jab, Leaning jab. Low jab, High jab. And it felt stiff and solid. Being able to lunge in quickly with a jab was huge. I felt like I could time people, and just slid in and jab at the perfect time to mess them up. Not so much in UFC 3....

In UFC 3 you like flick out a jab weirdly with no weight or stiffness, and there is no power behind it. Lean jab doesn't work like it used to. Lunging Jab so soooo slow, awkward and useless. Trying to time a whiff, or start up frames and hop in with a jab is way way too slow, you just slowly lumber in with a hop and a skip then throw a weak weightless jab...

Wish you were on Xbox or that I owned a Playstation, cause I bet we'd have fun fights.

The jab is always my weapon in these games. From playing Fight Night R3 as a kid, I've always liked to work behind the jab to keep distance and set up stronger shots.

It's so hard to do that in this game. One of my favorite fighters is Joanna, and trying to implement her actual fight style in the game is so difficult. Not because of your opponent either, it's hard to do on a standing dummy.

[MartialMind]

Re: Can Someone Show Me How Outside Fighting Is Done?

Apart from the fact that right now the game overall favors in range, pocket fighting, players are stubborn beyond belief.

Have you ever faced that opponent that you rock a million freaking times but they simply REFUSE to back the heck up? Hell, I've faced players that keep walking forward, even while rocked and wobbly... They wanna get you back sooooo hard, they completely forget that there's such a thing as backing up, even for a few seconds. It's mind-boggling to behold.

Most players I run into are basically like this:



I have to kill them to stop them from matching forward.

In real life, most times, when they are not dumb, even pressure fighters retreat... You throw something meaningful at them, they will retreat. The Diaz brothers with all their pressure fighting WILL back up once they start getting hit.... Hell Conor had Nate with his back almost touching the cage NUMEROUS times in both matches.

Like right here, Conor hit him with some clean counters and he goes "Nope, i'm backing up to reset"



Unless backward movement is sped up to a point where catching people will become damn near impossible, you'll ALWAYS have those players that just stay toe to toe no matter what you're throwing at them. (I'm not suggesting that backward movement be sped up).

What I'd like to see is more "retreating style hit reactions". Like yes, being able to halt opponents forward motion is great, but I'd like more strikes causing opponents to stagger backward.

- A pull counter should be so significant that it causes the opponent to stagger backward, especially if I follow up



- A slip straight counter should cause the opponent to stagger backward



You get hit with a short, crisp intercept shot like this, you shouldn't still be standing in front of me at all



- A ducking uppercut should cause the opponent to stagger backward



If I counter with a right hook, I'd like the opponent staggered to my left briefly, giving me enough time to pivot in the opposite direction and return to the center.

Right now, the strikes that actually creates distance between you and the opponent are very limited, too limited. We need more...

Staying on the outside forever against a very good player, shouldn't be easy, but when you see your counters effectively creating distance, staggering the opponent, causing them to stumbling backward (NOT UFC2 style staggers where you can then be comboed to oblivion while you're stuck in a hit reaction) But realistic ones, then you'd really feel like you're fighting on the outside.

Just my thought.