How is outside fighting considered OP?

[johnmangala]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

? Suddenly grappling has no place in range fighting.

Also you seem to ignore the part about the evasive retreat pawing becoming mobile in all directions as irl to help with cutting or circling the cage.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Omg John at this point I feel like you’re just trying to derail a pretty productive discussion we were having.

I literally have a thread about potential grappling changes for that stuff.

I meant can we focus on things that can be added to UFC 3 pertaining to this thread.

Oi bawbag i need attention as well aha

[Phillyboi207]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Oi bawbag i need attention as well aha

Lol

I wasnt responding cuz you werent being a dick to the Devs.

Anyway I think the convo has been derailed at this point.

Im out. Good thread and it’s good to know GPD atleast read parts of it.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Lol

I wasnt responding cuz you werent being a dick to the Devs.

Anyway I think the convo has been derailed at this point.

Im out. Good thread and it’s good to know GPD atleast read parts of it.

I can see why people are frustrated, unlike them we can keep our cool even when the oppostion can't. We can provide as many examples of what its like compared to waht it should be, but it seems like its set in stone due to GPD not fullt understanding the issue as well as "high" level players not understanding that fighting isnt a basic as they want it to be and its not just combo/sway/inside fighting unfortantely. Hell most IRL fights arent anything like the game but they dont care, as long as they get there W and understand that game currently they are happy.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

I would like to get back to topic, because currently there hasnt been a single point regarding outside fighting being OP or even a thing at this point.

Here is wikipedias definition of out-boxing.
"The out-boxer seeks to maintain a gap from their opponent and fight with faster, longer range punches. Out-boxers are known for being extremely quick on their feet, which often makes up for a lack of power. Since they rely on the weaker jabs and straights (as opposed to hooks and uppercuts), they tend to win by points decisions rather than by knockout, although some out-boxers can be aggressive and effective punchers.[1] Out-boxers such as Daniel Mendoza, Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney, Muhammad Ali, and Larry Holmes have many notable knockouts, but usually preferred to wear down their opponents and outclass them rather than just knock them out. Out-boxers also cross over frequently with counter-punch and/or swarming techniques, such as Naseem Hamed, who used his speed on his feet to avoid injury and his precision and power to carve his opponents down."

No lets use this as a basis for out fighting in mma, what are the differences. Firstly the range is different, MMA, it can be split up into danger zones. 1st being the clinch, its different from boxing as you are able to strike freely with no serpation, DC is iconic for his clinch work from uppercuts and his bodylock takedowns which he uses to neutralize having a shorter reach. Next is the short range. Fighters who are most successfully with this style are highly aggressive and throw hooks and overhands with “bad intentions” by maximizing trunk rotation through a more squared stance. Because of the explosive nature of the style, combos are intended to be thrown in bursts and Head movement should be “just enough,” and punches thrown with the head “off-line” to maximize power and reach while simultaneously incorporating defense. Mid-range is the “default” style and these tactics are fundamental to any striking approach. Instead of “slipping and ripping” like short-range tactics, the mid-range style relies heavily on what can be called “catching and throwing.” This strategies requires fighters use their hands, shoulders and arms, to absorb or “catch” the opponent’s offense and then immediately “throw” a strike to counter. The mid-range style allows the fighter to remain in a position where he or she can consistently defend and apply the largest variety of offense not available because of the nature of the other styles. Because of the high guard and plodding forward movement of this style, weaknesses include increased takedown susceptibility.
Then we have the out side fighting and long range, this style, used fluently by fighters like Conor McGregor and Stephen Thompson, is also an effective one for those fighters who are attempting to avoid takedowns. Tyron Woodley recently applied defensive elements of the long-range style when he effectively defended a multitude of takedown efforts by Demian Maia and their fight earlier this year. Because of the distance used by practitioners of this style, it is in direct contrast of the short-range style (think Tyson vs Ali).
Relaxed in nature, this style works best when used by fighters with superior reach against opponents moving forward aggressively. Much like a “sniper” waiting for just the right moment to pull the trigger, the long-range style practitioners use “micro footwork” to float just outside the range of their opponent searching for the counter. Kicks most effectively employed by this style tend to be longer range like oblique or teep kicks. By fighting long and using a “micro footwork” with lateral movement, defense is simultaneously incorporated as the fighter strives to remain just outside the opponents reach to “snipe” an incoming opponent.

Come at me.

Using fightscience as a source here as i dont think people understand and disagree with my opinion, even though its a fact

[kush land]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

I have very serious question what happens when we can run away easier?


I personally only fight going backwards i always have always will

So im not very good at coming forward

I have trouble catching people if they dont come after me.sure i could spam 3 or 4 lunging jabs and be all over them.


But if your just throwing jabs sidestep is VERY EFFECTIVE if they just throw jabs.

Then they throw hook in there with there jabs they hit you.

You just stopped the jab spam and now its jabs with hooks.

And that just keeps going but you add advanced L and back sways and blocking for defense.


I personally can run around pretty good until they start kicking my legs

So my point is theres ALOT GOIN ON ALREADY yes it can feel like your stuck in a phone booth that suks i know.

If they nerf pressure too much what do you think its gonna look like?

you think IM GOING TO STOP MOVING AWAY and just exchange with you if u cant catch me?

My temper is my worst enemy in this game it makes everything much harder.

I think MM idea about moving combos would slove most of this.

[aholbert32]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

If they nerf pressure too much what do you think its gonna look like?

This isnt directed at you Kush but this whole thing reminds me of a political campaign. A whole lot of rhetoric that has nothing to do with the issues.

Here is what people are asking for:

A way to use movement alone to avoid straight line pressure and combos AND cage cutting tools to help skilled players cut off that movement.

Thats it. No one is asking to nerf pressure. No one is asking to make running easier. We are asking for an additional realistic way to avoid basic pressure. We are also asking to add tools that help skilled players combat that.

Anything else is a distraction. The top 1% already thinks "running" is the meta. Fighting off your back foot constantly is a bad thing.

Even if you counter off of it.

Even if you match their activity with 100 strikes a round.

Even if you dont strike alot and get the **** kicked out of you. Winning isnt enough.

I'm hoping for yall's sake that the devs open the game up a little and add these things but who knows.

[kush land]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

This isnt directed at you Kush but this whole thing reminds me of a political campaign. A whole lot of rhetoric that has nothing to do with the issues.

Here is what people are asking for:

A way to use movement alone to avoid straight line pressure and combos AND cage cutting tools to help skilled players cut off that movement.

Thats it. No one is asking to nerf pressure. No one is asking to make running easier. We are asking for an additional realistic way to avoid basic pressure. We are also asking to add tools that help skilled players combat that.

Anything else is a distraction. The top 1% already thinks "running" is the meta. Fighting off your back foot constantly is a bad thing.

Even if you counter off of it.

Even if you match their activity with 100 strikes a round.

Even if you dont strike alot and get the **** kicked out of you. Winning isnt enough.

I'm hoping for yall's sake that the devs open the game up a little and add these things but who knows.

You just wanna add the side ways Shuffle ?

Im all good with that

[bmlimo]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

I have very serious question what happens when we can run away easier?


I personally only fight going backwards i always have always will

So im not very good at coming forward

I have trouble catching people if they dont come after me.sure i could spam 3 or 4 lunging jabs and be all over them.


But if your just throwing jabs sidestep is VERY EFFECTIVE if they just throw jabs.

Then they throw hook in there with there jabs they hit you.

You just stopped the jab spam and now its jabs with hooks.

And that just keeps going but you add advanced L and back sways and blocking for defense.


I personally can run around pretty good until they start kicking my legs

So my point is theres ALOT GOIN ON ALREADY yes it can feel like your stuck in a phone booth that suks i know.

If they nerf pressure too much what do you think its gonna look like?

you think IM GOING TO STOP MOVING AWAY and just exchange with you if u cant catch me?

My temper is my worst enemy in this game it makes everything much harder.

I think MM idea about moving combos would slove most of this.

There’s a mid ground called cut the cage... instead of always chase with a jab and pressure u could just gaining space and pointing out the outsider... when the outsider is against the cage u just have to gain more points... and then he will have to come after you to steal the round

[bmlimo]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP

This isnt directed at you Kush but this whole thing reminds me of a political campaign. A whole lot of rhetoric that has nothing to do with the issues.

Here is what people are asking for:

A way to use movement alone to avoid straight line pressure and combos AND cage cutting tools to help skilled players cut off that movement.

Thats it. No one is asking to nerf pressure. No one is asking to make running easier. We are asking for an additional realistic way to avoid basic pressure. We are also asking to add tools that help skilled players combat that.

Anything else is a distraction. The top 1% already thinks "running" is the meta. Fighting off your back foot constantly is a bad thing.

Even if you counter off of it.

Even if you match their activity with 100 strikes a round.

Even if you dont strike alot and get the **** kicked out of you. Winning isnt enough.

I'm hoping for yall's sake that the devs open the game up a little and add these things but who knows.

The thing is:
Man when u say like that I just can imagine that they simple don’t wanna adapt their game style against a more conservative player... they want to throw combos break your block in the easiest way possible... it’s to hard to close distance even being possible To run after your opponent kkkk

[johnmangala]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

I feel a new lateral evasion would be good.

The new retreating pawing evasion should be split imo.

The backwards evasion should remain as a backwards sprint. The pawing should become free movement and tie to grappling.

The lateral and backwards sprint initiates like sprinting, just double flick to the sides.

The paw would be by holding the LS+RS towards opponent or so.

So that would eliminate the R1/B+R2 config for the current retreating evasion, so fighters like Gaethje can use it too since he uses it a lot irl too. So that config becomes free again.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

I appreciate the ideas etc but it kinda goes off topic, this was a discussion thread to see why it is considered op. Currently no evidence or solid points have been made and still looking for a response

[Solid_Altair]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

I appreciate the ideas etc but it kinda goes off topic, this was a discussion thread to see why it is considered op. Currently no evidence or solid points have been made and still looking for a response

Setting aside the semantic details of outside fighting vs fighting on the back foot, doe sthat Aldo vs Holloway fight serve as evidence that that diagonal retreat angle is OP?

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Setting aside the semantic details of outside fighting vs fighting on the back foot, doe sthat Aldo vs Holloway fight serve as evidence that that diagonal retreat angle is OP?

No all it shows is some who is good at what js given, nothing op about it. What did you find op in it, i saw max constantly in his face while aldo would try and keep some distance, land leg kicks and conter him coming in with punches.

Thanks for the response and being courteous.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

No all it shows is some who is good at what js given, nothing op about it. What did you find op in it, i saw max constantly in his face while aldo would try and keep some distance, land leg kicks and conter him coming in with punches.

Thanks for the response and being courteous.

You're welcome.

I think that angle allows him to retreat considerably, enjoying the benefits of an almost full retreat (whiff baiting, recovery and forcing the opponent to throw advancing {slower} attacks)... while also circle quickly enough to never hit the cage. I think retreats should feel more like a limited resource, maybe along with the compensation of making them even better, somehow.