VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

[kjcheezhead]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Maybe it was harder to rip out the old code and put in new code than anyone expected. We don't know because we are behind the scenes.

Best anyone can do is guess without having knowledge.

Ok, so let's go with that. EA, tripled the size of the dev team,hired the most talented developers in the field, worked on the game for 2 years and the code was so fubared that they could only make the ball carrier and user defender work right.

So why should I be optimistic again?

[roadman]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Ok, so let's go with that. EA, tripled the size of the dev team,hired the most talented developers in the field, worked on the game for 2 years and the code was so fubared that they could only make the ball carrier and user defender work right.

So why should I be optimistic again?

Not trying to change anyone's mind, just throwing out other alternatives.

Do you really know for a fact that they worked on true step for two years?

[ch46647]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Movement and Animations are the #1 priority for any videogame, particularly a sports game. This needs to be 100% overhauled by next August and Madden 15.

This game cannot improve until those two key areas are completely fixed.

[Jetpac]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Ok, so let's go with that. EA, tripled the size of the dev team,hired the most talented developers in the field, worked on the game for 2 years and the code was so fubared that they could only make the ball carrier and user defender work right.

So why should I be optimistic again?

Boom. He killed it.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Not trying to change anyone's mind, just throwing out other alternatives.

Do you really know for a fact that they worked on true step for two years?

I don't know if they worked on the game at all. I'm going off what I've read. When next gen was being announced people feared another 2006. The board was full of that game was made in 6 months, this time the team is much better prepared and have had a second team in place for 2 years. Now info is coming out and its underwhelming and now they just worked on it since current Madden 25 release.

Either they worked on the game for 2 years and accomplished very little, or they started late and got caught off guard like 2006 all over again. Should madden fans accept either one of these scenarios?

[roadman]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

I don't know if they worked on the game at all. I'm going off what I've read. When next gen was being announced people feared another 2006. The board was full of that game was made in 6 months, this time the team is much better prepared and have had a second team in place for 2 years. Now info is coming out and its underwhelming and now they just worked on it since current Madden 25 release.

Either they worked on the game for 2 years and accomplished very little, or they started late and got caught off guard like 2006 all over again. Should madden fans accept either one of these scenarios?

Of course not, but we don't know the full true story, do we?

What info is underwhelming? The truth? I'd rather hear the truth vs self-bloated we have the best game coming out.

What I read is the Cam Weber interview last year that stated they've been working on the transition from CG to NG.

It sounds like you'll be better prepared for the next-generation of systems and we won't see the early Madden games drop traditional features when they come out.

I think what happened in the last generation – and I think it happened in a lot of places across our industry. It absolutely did here – a lot of people were trying to re-write everything all though that transition, and so the games lost some depth and they kind of started from scratch and had to build the depth again. I think with this generation, what we want to do is really clean house, get our technology in order, and make sure we really have this great platform and these different elements so we can take that with us so we don't lose any depth along the way when we transition to future hardware.

On the flipside, is there any danger that you're starting things for the next-generation too early, and that you'll actually be behind when the next-generation hits since you're starting things already?

I think we're in so much better of a place today than we were in the last transition. Mainly because a lot of it is not a re-write, and the pieces that are re-writes, we're building a lot of those foundations now. These technologies that you're seeing are scaleable. Very scaleable.

Again, it feels like I'm being slighted for having a glimmer of hope with what I've heard or seen about NG.

I think what I'll do for awhile is just lurk and hope NG is the game everyone is looking for in the near future.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Ok, so let's go with that. EA, tripled the size of the dev team,hired the most talented developers in the field, worked on the game for 2 years and the code was so fubared that they could only make the ball carrier and user defender work right.

So why should I be optimistic again?

A) Can someone tell me where it was mentioned that true step only applies to two players on the field? If that is indeed the case, that is extremely disappointing if in fact "true step" literally means true step. If "true step" literally means true footsteps, true footplanting, implementing it into ALL football players on the field would solve a lot of stuff.

It would theoretically stop your sliding ol/dl, magical recoveries, at least help with your db/wr footsteps, qb scrambles, linemans running down a speedy back, etc.

If you're out of position, true step would mean you're literally out of position, and crazy magical recovery abilities should/would be gone.

B) tourney comments. Can anyone give me a brief insight on madden tourneys? Why can't EA simply have tourney guys/gals adapt to simulation gameplay? If someone has thousands invested in Madden tournaments, they're man/woman enough to adapt and not throw a tantrum or hissy fit like a child.


I'll quote myself from page 1 of this thread below.

1. SLIDING. why is it still prevalent? Sliding is still seen in the most recent videos released, why is it so difficult to completely eliminate this crucial aspect from the game? Sliding allows suction block, tackle, and various unrealistic scenarios to remain prevalent. If a defensive lineman takes a wrong step, the offensive lineman should have an angle advantage, better leverage, to rush the QB. If sliding is still present, it would allow the defensive lineman to magically recover.

2. TRUE STEP. is true step programmed for every single defensive and offensive player on the field, if so why do the most recent videos still show sliding happening? Isn't true step suppose to completely eliminate sliding?

[N51_rob]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

B) tourney comments. Can anyone give me a brief insight on madden tourneys? Why can't EA simply have tourney guys/gals adapt to simulation gameplay? If someone has thousands invested in Madden tournaments, they're man/woman enough to adapt and not throw a tantrum or hissy fit like a child.

Madden Big Money Tourney:
-Stick Skills over all else (ie Rocket Catch)
-Win at all costs
-Run the same play over and over and over and over.
-Hot Route every route to take advantage of the AI's weaknesses.
-If at all possible bounce every run to the outside.
-Hit Stick every one every play.
-Align defense to attempt to find the nano's that get home.
-No matter where you are on the field you are in 4 down territory.
-Get right next to your opponent's ear and yell, scream, demean w/e you can to get him off his game.
-Minimal knowledge of the game of football required, but maximum knowledge of the game of Madden is a must.

At least from what I can remember.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

N51_rob, appreciate the response. I seriously didn't know what the fuss with Madden Tournaments was all about. If that's the case, I guess we're doomed. Some of those are actually pretty funny, unfortunately.

Regardless, couldn't EA sports simply put out a more simulation product and have the tourneys adapt? They're grown man and woman are they not?

[LorenzoDC]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Of course not, but we don't know the full true story, do we?

What info is underwhelming? The truth? I'd rather hear the truth vs self-bloated we have the best game coming out.

What I read is the Cam Weber interview last year that stated they've been working on the transition from CG to NG.

It sounds like you'll be better prepared for the next-generation of systems and we won't see the early Madden games drop traditional features when they come out.

I think what happened in the last generation – and I think it happened in a lot of places across our industry. It absolutely did here – a lot of people were trying to re-write everything all though that transition, and so the games lost some depth and they kind of started from scratch and had to build the depth again. I think with this generation, what we want to do is really clean house, get our technology in order, and make sure we really have this great platform and these different elements so we can take that with us so we don't lose any depth along the way when we transition to future hardware.

On the flipside, is there any danger that you're starting things for the next-generation too early, and that you'll actually be behind when the next-generation hits since you're starting things already?

I think we're in so much better of a place today than we were in the last transition. Mainly because a lot of it is not a re-write, and the pieces that are re-writes, we're building a lot of those foundations now. These technologies that you're seeing are scaleable. Very scaleable.

Again, it feels like I'm being slighted for having a glimmer of hope with what I've heard or seen about NG.

I think what I'll do for awhile is just lurk and hope NG is the game everyone is looking for in the near future.

I finally got around to reading the interview. My guess is my overall take is similar to yours. I'm the glad bull hockey quotient and hype meter are being toned way down. I'd rather have more candor, and the interview gives more of it than we've seen in past years.

He didn't say outright that any number of things will not be in the game, but he didn't have to. It's plain from his answers. His answers make more clear what I suspected was the case anyway with the game is it is now.

The community, and apparently these game play guys, agree the game is a long way from being a sim football game. They say they are committed to change that, and have to tackle each piece of what that will require in a deliberate fashion, letting one piece build on and set up the next. Nevermind his throw away corporate line that says the game has been good. From a gameplay perspective, these guys inherited a hot smoking mess and they're playing catch up.

So it is what it is, and at least we won't have them shilling gimmicks in coming years to try to distract everyone from the more fundamental flaws in the game. They're working on those fundamental flaws.

I'm as frustrated and impatient as anyone with the content of a lot of these answers. The sliders on is the one that really kills me, personally, though I understand his rationale. But writing software code is not something you can just throw more bodies and man hours at to speed it up.

Putting too many programmers on a project can actually slow it down by adding conflict, confusion, and friction due to the need to keep everyone coordinated. I've seen this before: I once picked a team of 4 really good guys to write a complex software solution that a team of 25 had floundered and failed to get right for a year. My group did it in 4 months.

When you have a lot of new technology to plug on to old systems you can have extra problems, and throwing more bodies at it won't necessarily speed things up, and it may even slow them down. This is one of the things about writing code that a lot of people don't understand. In some of this stuff, you just can't cheat time because you need to do a lot of testing and verification at every step.

So, I don't like it, but I understand it. I've played current gen M25 and stopped after a couple of weeks. I just got bored, and frustrated with the lack of sim playability for 15 minute quarters (or 13, or 12. . .).

But at least this interview doesn't try to con me, and they at least sound like they see the problems we see and are biting the bullet to try to solve them. And it's going to take longer than one or two years.

[royounggoku]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Of course not, but we don't know the full true story, do we?

What info is underwhelming? The truth? I'd rather hear the truth vs self-bloated we have the best game coming out.

What I read is the Cam Weber interview last year that stated they've been working on the transition from CG to NG.

It sounds like you'll be better prepared for the next-generation of systems and we won't see the early Madden games drop traditional features when they come out.

I think what happened in the last generation – and I think it happened in a lot of places across our industry. It absolutely did here – a lot of people were trying to re-write everything all though that transition, and so the games lost some depth and they kind of started from scratch and had to build the depth again. I think with this generation, what we want to do is really clean house, get our technology in order, and make sure we really have this great platform and these different elements so we can take that with us so we don't lose any depth along the way when we transition to future hardware.

On the flipside, is there any danger that you're starting things for the next-generation too early, and that you'll actually be behind when the next-generation hits since you're starting things already?

I think we're in so much better of a place today than we were in the last transition. Mainly because a lot of it is not a re-write, and the pieces that are re-writes, we're building a lot of those foundations now. These technologies that you're seeing are scaleable. Very scaleable.

Again, it feels like I'm being slighted for having a glimmer of hope with what I've heard or seen about NG.

I think what I'll do for awhile is just lurk and hope NG is the game everyone is looking for in the near future.

Oh man, please don't pull a Rex. This is what the forums are for, people have contradicting opinions and we discuss them and in my opinion we've all been respectful to one another so far in this thread so no need to go on the lurk.

[jpdavis82]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

A) Can someone tell me where it was mentioned that true step only applies to two players on the field? If that is indeed the case, that is extremely disappointing if in fact "true step" literally means true step. If "true step" literally means true footsteps, true footplanting, implementing it into ALL football players on the field would solve a lot of stuff.

It would theoretically stop your sliding ol/dl, magical recoveries, at least help with your db/wr footsteps, qb scrambles, linemans running down a speedy back, etc.

If you're out of position, true step would mean you're literally out of position, and crazy magical recovery abilities should/would be gone.

B) tourney comments. Can anyone give me a brief insight on madden tourneys? Why can't EA simply have tourney guys/gals adapt to simulation gameplay? If someone has thousands invested in Madden tournaments, they're man/woman enough to adapt and not throw a tantrum or hissy fit like a child.


I'll quote myself from page 1 of this thread below.

The way I understand it and what I heard in this interview as well as on the sim perspective, is that True Step applies to everyone who is being user controlled on defense and also to the ball carriers by the user and CPU. I think it's something we will have to see in motion to better understand, it's hard to picture a player on defense running a certain way and then switching to him and he runs a different way.

I agree with Roadman though, Madden is in much better position for the future than it has been since 2004. I expect greatness for years to come, but first we have to see the legacy issues addressed. O/D line interactions have been an issue for a long time, so it's a big improvement for next gen what they're doing in the trenches, and they will keep working on it too, gap play, play action game, etc....

The main thing though, is that they keep building and building towards a simulation game from now on and don't add then remove things. So far under Cam Weber they've been building and building so it's a good sign.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

Of course not, but we don't know the full true story, do we?

What info is underwhelming? The truth? I'd rather hear the truth vs self-bloated we have the best game coming out.

Again, it feels like I'm being slighted for having a glimmer of hope with what I've heard or seen about next gen.

Of course I would rather have the truth, but I honestly don't see where your hope comes from. Again, only 2 players will move on the field realistically. Throw a wr is untouched so we can expect 90% accuracy at the moment. Signature animations will not be in the game because they are working on just getting the base animations right. Don't expect bad snaps, etc because tourney guys don't like things out of their control.

I'm sorry you feel slighted for optimism and I am not trying to change your mind either, I just can't fathom where people get so much faith in EA from.

[raguel]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

The problem is w/o improved WR/DB play, or route based passing having less time in the pocket to pass means very little because its a "new mechanic" built on top of old code and old issues. If they are gonna fix the passing game that should all be done at once not over another "3 year plan".

I haven't really played the last two versions but I thought Madden 13 introduced the bolded.

[Jetpac]

Re: VSN Arcade Podcast scheduled to interview EA's Rex Dickson and Clint Oldenberg!

I haven't really played the last two versions but I thought Madden 13 introduced the bolded.

There is and never has been route based timing in Madden. Its all tethered to the WR.

When you throw a ball to a receiver in Madden he automatically goes in the direction of the ball even if he isn't looking at the pass. Its tethered.