Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

[101]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Wow, where did all of that come from? and to think, it took 14 pages for the thread to stray, that has to be some sort of record

[HotShot232]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

I agree that there's a discrepancy, I just don't think it's as huge as some make it out to be. You'll forget more football than I'll likely ever know, but regarding Tatum... each of the players you noted that felt Tatum's wrath also wasn't looking. When Tatum caught Campbell at the goalline, he hit him with everything he had - and still didn't make the tackle or stop Campbell from continuing forward (although Campbell was clearly dazed/injured by the hit). But if you gave me Campbell versus Tatum one on one, I'm pretty sure Campbell would win out on most of those. Look at Walter Payton over his career - how many times was he brought down one-on-one? He was also famous for trying to punish defensive players with forearms. We could go back and forth all day. Again, I'd like to see the defensive players tweaked some because offenses have a bit too much of an advantage, but I don't think the game is completely out of whack.

The game isn't perfect. I also agree w/you about the hits; I think the hits in the game are more vicious than in 2K5 but they could've went perhaps a step further. And the game would definitely benefit from a more pronounced low-tackle option, where the defender can take out a offensive players legs. This is something I also agree with you that Madden does relatively well, though overly-simplistic - unfortunately for that game the players seem to have no weight. If I had to choose between the two, I'd take 2K's flawed system versus Madden/NCAA's flawed system 9 times out of 10.

Check out my sliders in the slider section.

Blocking is much lower givena reason for a legend O-line man because now a Legend D-line man will get pressure much easier on a generic O-line man.

Coverage is bumped up to 80 which helps on the dreaded out route and corner routes.

Pursuit is bumped up to 65 which helps EXTREMELY, most likly the biggest helper. Now linebackers don't sit with their thumb up their $@#. They hit with the blitzs MUCH quicker also. Which results in much more realistic numbers in the ground game.

Tackling is up to 65 to help for backs like Campbell who break wayyy to many tackles.

INT is at 100 which makes throwing it into coverage wayyy more risky, if a DB gets two hands on it now it WILL be picked. Which makes the THROW AWAY button have a uses

Fumble is at 100 which will results in a fumble every 2 or 3 games. It is not realistic but it is the best we can do

All in all read the slider section this are for HEAD to HEAD only. But it is a MUCH improved. If you all are looking for a much more realism, this is the ticket here. I am thinking for dropping blocking to zero also because I am wanting a tad more pressure.

But with the blocking lower it also helps on the kick offs 90% of them are around the mid 20 to early 30s now rather than so many near the deep 40 or near 50.

Anyway guys just a heads up.

[burnwood]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

I am giving tips to try and help. If you want to complain for the rest of this thread then you do that.

Yes. But no one is asking for tips, yet you keep offering.

[TombSong]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Yes. But no one is asking for tips, yet you keep offering.

So, you can ignore them and they can too ?

[TombSong]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Its cool in all to complain and have an opinion on a matter, but once you have written 40 threads on the subject. I think people get your point. We debate it, and try and help your situation if it can be helped. They dont want the help and there is nothing anyone can do about the current game as it stands except play with the sliders.

Short of that what can anyone do ? Some of them just want to complain. Have they played Madden ? Its a good game. Its got its problems too, but you can blitz like hell, and I wreckon you can stop the star backs easily and they dont have to see Earl campbell, LOL.

[bigdunks4eva]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Another thing about 2k8 is the double team blocking does not occur as much. .

this is something i was thinking about earlier today and it really sucks. instead of the fridge commanding a double, he'll bowl the center over/get pulled down and leave a nice hole to run through. more dt blocking would alleviate the problems with the molasses mlb, because not only is he normally slow off the snap, but there's a guard or center on his @zz almost every play. i still love this game though. shoot if 2k patched this game i'd probably pay just to be able to download it. and why dont we have custom packages or a play editor? give me a play editor, custom packages (4-3 pass package, 4-3 run stuff, ect), some tweaks and i'd probably man-soil myself from playing it.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Check out my sliders in the slider section.

Blocking is much lower givena reason for a legend O-line man because now a Legend D-line man will get pressure much easier on a generic O-line man.

Coverage is bumped up to 80 which helps on the dreaded out route and corner routes.

Pursuit is bumped up to 65 which helps EXTREMELY, most likly the biggest helper. Now linebackers don't sit with their thumb up their $@#. They hit with the blitzs MUCH quicker also. Which results in much more realistic numbers in the ground game.

Tackling is up to 65 to help for backs like Campbell who break wayyy to many tackles.

INT is at 100 which makes throwing it into coverage wayyy more risky, if a DB gets two hands on it now it WILL be picked. Which makes the THROW AWAY button have a uses

Fumble is at 100 which will results in a fumble every 2 or 3 games. It is not realistic but it is the best we can do

All in all read the slider section this are for HEAD to HEAD only. But it is a MUCH improved. If you all are looking for a much more realism, this is the ticket here. I am thinking for dropping blocking to zero also because I am wanting a tad more pressure.

But with the blocking lower it also helps on the kick offs 90% of them are around the mid 20 to early 30s now rather than so many near the deep 40 or near 50.

Anyway guys just a heads up.

Personally I have no doubt that w/the sliders available and their effectiveness, the game can be tweaked manually to pretty much every personal taste (the exception being fumbling). The game plays really, really good imo at default. Some slider tweaks and it plays undeniably great imo. I think those complaining about certain players are saying that while making certain slider tweaks is good for OSers playing each other online, that doesn't translate to the larger APF online community. There are some things that sliders can't change, like ball carriers regaining full strength/momentum after a missed tackle attempt. But sliders can help alleviate a good deal of it for those having problems.

I also like what you were saying about the pursuit slider. For my cpu games I've actually lowered my Tackling to 45, upped cpu Running to 65, and upped fatigue for both sides to 80. I love how the game plays myself

[grunt]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Arcadey = blitz. This is not blitz. Double team has much to do with your fronts as with anything else.
There are simple game play fixes to make this game play more realistic.

Here are the major complaints

Can't stop Earl

Earl can be stopped using football strategy

You can't blitz or the blitz is broken

I can blitz and now the legend of Freak shows you can have really effective blitz packages

Poor db ai

I see realistic db ai and I play with generic corners

Gold tight ends

Never had a problem

etc, etc, etc

I know this game isn't perfect but there are different ways of playing effective games.

Now, the game is arcadey because a video of an offense only practice session showed an incomplete pass. This is funny.

We only started to play with the sliders and seeing some good results.

Peace

[grunt]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Personally I have no doubt that w/the sliders available and their effectiveness, the game can be tweaked manually to pretty much every personal taste (the exception being fumbling). The game plays really, really good imo at default. Some slider tweaks and it plays undeniably great imo. I think those complaining about certain players are saying that while making certain slider tweaks is good for OSers playing each other online, that doesn't translate to the larger APF online community. There are some things that sliders can't change, like ball carriers regaining full strength/momentum after a missed tackle attempt. But sliders can help alleviate a good deal of it for those having problems.

I also like what you were saying about the pursuit slider. For my cpu games I've actually lowered my Tackling to 45, upped cpu Running to 65, and upped fatigue for both sides to 80. I love how the game plays myself

If you play with the general population then you will see all type of playing styles but we have online leagues with a possible custom sliders. As much as I like 2k football, I didn't even look at the 2k tourney because of the know cheese and glitch those players use. I just want to find 10-20 solid players that are willing to go deep into the game.

[HotShot232]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

If you play with the general population then you will see all type of playing styles but we have online leagues with a possible custom sliders. As much as I like 2k football, I didn't even look at the 2k tourney because of the know cheese and glitch those players use. I just want to find 10-20 solid players that are willing to go deep into the game.

Exactly I am in 2 leagues and I have close to 40 SIM players on my friends list. So if you look at my win-loss record it is wayyyyy out of wack cause all my games are not in the general lobby. 99% of my games are in league lobby.

Or play a friend. This is what the game was designed for me. I could carless about Benrichardson being ranked number 1 or who ever else. I don't play the game for my rank. I play the game to find a good group of TRUE sim players that will be with the game ALOT longer than 90% of the rest of the community. Then like I said with sliders we can tweek them and get the most realistic football game possible.

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

I was almost convinced guys but nahhh after playing the 2nd round of the tourney I'm not convinced. This game needs a hell of alot of defensive work. Mostly the tackling physics. Dude was running end around with Shannon Sharpe and Sharpe was breaking tackles from linebackers. Sharpe was good but this is a run play and Sharpe first ran slap over Lamar Lathon and then stiffed armed my generic backer, ran out of the tackle of the safety and ran for the TD. That's when I knew, ohh boy gonna be one of those bullsh@t games.

I lost my game and it was my fault going for 2 rather than trying to tie it but there was soo much there that just made the game feel arcade. Btw the final score 42-41 I had 453 Total Offense he had 377. I had 175 Rushing, 278 Passing. He had 282 passing, 96 rushing (most of his rushing with Sharpe). After the first Sharpe TD I put focus on him then used 3 Dog T and man the OLB up on him, Sharpe just leaves the OLB in the dust and the Safety over the top is so damn incompetent to make a play. He runs right pass Sharpe before I can even switch over to make a damn play.

Ohhh and that Cadence Bull**** needs to go. He drew my guys offside 4 times and 3 of those times were on 3rd and 3 and 3rd and 4 so it is an easy 1st down pivotal point of hte game where I could have gained an edge because he was not going to stop my O. Bull**** that I cant even control. My D had 4 sacks and should have had more, dummy just stops and looks at the QB. There was not even a punt in this game.

Lastly, the defensive model is too much like the old Madden's. There is a particular run play that is pretty damn tough to stop. He got into 43, 34, Bear, 44 and could not stop it so I kept running it as you can see by the stats. I was running out of I Pro. He got into Nickel and couldn't stop it. Then he moves to Dime and shuts it down. What kinda garbage is that? That's that EA BS.

[grunt]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

I was almost convinced guys but nahhh after playing the 2nd round of the tourney I'm not convinced. This game needs a hell of alot of defensive work. Mostly the tackling physics. Dude was running end around with Shannon Sharpe and Sharpe was breaking tackles from linebackers. Sharpe was good but this is a run play and Sharpe first ran slap over Lamar Lathon and then stiffed armed my generic backer, ran out of the tackle of the safety and ran for the TD. That's when I knew, ohh boy gonna be one of those bullsh@t games.

I lost my game and it was my fault going for 2 rather than trying to tie it but there was soo much there that just made the game feel arcade. Btw the final score 42-41 I had 453 Total Offense he had 377. I had 175 Rushing, 278 Passing. He had 282 passing, 96 rushing (most of his rushing with Sharpe). After the first Sharpe TD I put focus on him then used 3 Dog T and man the OLB up on him, Sharpe just leaves the OLB in the dust and the Safety over the top is so damn incompetent to make a play. He runs right pass Sharpe before I can even switch over to make a damn play.

Ohhh and that Cadence Bull**** needs to go. He drew my guys offside 4 times and 3 of those times were on 3rd and 3 and 3rd and 4 so it is an easy 1st down pivotal point of hte game where I could have gained an edge because he was not going to stop my O. Bull**** that I cant even control. My D had 4 sacks and should have had more, dummy just stops and looks at the QB. There was not even a punt in this game.

Lastly, the defensive model is too much like the old Madden's. There is a particular run play that is pretty damn tough to stop. He got into 43, 34, Bear, 44 and could not stop it so I kept running it as you can see by the stats. I was running out of I Pro. He got into Nickel and couldn't stop it. Then he moves to Dime and shuts it down. What kinda garbage is that? That's that EA BS.

Tough loss but you know you were going to face cheese. I avoid these tourneys like a flu.

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Tough loss but you know you were going to face cheese. I avoid these tourneys like a flu.

That's the thing though he really didn't cheese. No FG block glitching, no constant corner routes it's just the tourney really handicaps you because you are given a defense and all of the defenses in the tourney SUCK. At best you are going to have 1 CB. I think 1 team has 2 CB's. But if you do that then you might have 1 linebacker and 2 defensive lineman. Some teams are worse. Some teams only have 3 or 4 defensive legends. I don't know what they were thinking with this tourney. They must have wanted high scores. I'll post in the wish list shortly. I have some ideas.

[grunt]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

That's the thing though he really didn't cheese. No FG block glitching, no constant corner routes it's just the tourney really handicaps you because you are given a defense and all of the defenses in the tourney SUCK. At best you are going to have 1 CB. I think 1 team has 2 CB's. But if you do that then you might have 1 linebacker and 2 defensive lineman. Some teams are worse. Some teams only have 3 or 4 defensive legends. I don't know what they were thinking with this tourney. They must have wanted high scores. I'll post in the wish list shortly. I have some ideas.

Sound like a poor design tourney. Yeah, that really does sucks.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Ohhh and that Cadence Bull**** needs to go. He drew my guys offside 4 times and 3 of those times were on 3rd and 3 and 3rd and 4 so it is an easy 1st down pivotal point of hte game where I could have gained an edge because he was not going to stop my O. Bull**** that I cant even control. My D had 4 sacks and should have had more, dummy just stops and looks at the QB. There was not even a punt in this game.

Yeah I hate the cadence stuff myself. You have no control over whether your DL jumps off. One thing that might make it more balanced is if they made it just as likely your OL would false start, especially if you have too many generics on the line. But I hate it when people do it to me online.

Lastly, the defensive model is too much like the old Madden's. There is a particular run play that is pretty damn tough to stop. He got into 43, 34, Bear, 44 and could not stop it so I kept running it as you can see by the stats. I was running out of I Pro. He got into Nickel and couldn't stop it. Then he moves to Dime and shuts it down. What kinda garbage is that? That's that EA BS.

This is what I thought you were talking about earlier. DBs on the whole should not be effective tacklers, while DL and LBs should be moreso. Of course players like Night Train, Woodson, Lott, etc. would be exceptions in the secondary. I haven't seen people nickel and diming to the level it was done in past Madden's, but I'd think that would be something that could be somewhat alleviated by tweaking the ratings since the player interaction in APF is much more robust (you won't see a small DB completely occupying an OL for example)