Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

LOL, come one man, you KNOW you would NOT let me do that to you, and I KNOW you would not...because you know what we both know....YOU CAN stop Earl in this game, LOL

I know it can be done. I just said that in the previous post. But I think the issues that alot of guys are talking about are certain situations that just do not make sense.

[TombSong]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

I know it can be done. I just said that in the previous post. But I think the issues that alot of guys are talking about are certain situations that just do not make sense.

I can understand that. I aint disagreeing with them. I know what their frustration is all about, but If it were more a situation were they could not do something about it, then I am 100% behind them, but they CAN. Now whether they should HAVE to make the adjustment OR the game do it for them is a debate we need to have with the devs...what do yah think ?

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

I can understand that. I aint disagreeing with them. I know what their frustration is all about, but If it were more a situation were they could not do something about it, then I am 100% behind them, but they CAN. Now whether they should HAVE to make the adjustment and the game do it for them is a debate we need to have with the devs...what do yah think ?

I think it depends. I'm more for player control but I do think we have to rely on the A.I for certain things. For instance, we gotta rely on the A.I OLB to move on the snap of the ball and to play with outside leverage. We gotta rely on the A.I controlled Dlineman to perform the line stunt called. A key issue is how much control will the user have in switching over to another player? If the player loses speed and gets out of position simply because I switch over then in the users mind he has to question whether it is worth doing so. Some guys have great stick skills, some do not. I'm not sure. Although I am for player control, I think if a guy is there to make a play he shouldn't be waiting for me to switch over. I dunno man I gotta go get ready for Barry in the hands of XxCheezZZZxX.

[catcatch22]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Thats like saying, hey I can't get a pass rush in 2k5 normally and someone saying sure you can just us the dline glitch. Or hey I can't block field goals or pat's and someone saying sure you can use the field goal block glitch.

I am not saying to stop the gold backs you have to glitch and with me its not Earl but O.J. and Sayers. I don't have a problem stopping backs its just the way it plays it can be better, I just don't understand why I'm so wrong for wanting that. That just escapes me how people don't want that.

[dunelly]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

lol funny because i just played against an earl user.
Had to run goalline every down even vs 4 wide set

stopped him but one run he broke 3 tackles in a row behind the LOS
the guy disconnected

[Disasterpiece]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

lol funny because i just played against an earl user.
Had to run goalline every down even vs 4 wide set

stopped him but one run he broke 3 tackles in a row behind the LOS
the guy disconnected

Weird, I can stop him with the Nickle.

[metallicatz]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

What makes that vid even funnier is that if you check out just about any 2K board you'll hear smack talk every single day about the QB's in Madden throwing 60 yards off the back foot. This was like 75 yards in the air off the back foot. The Legend mechanic is very arcade.

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

Weird, I can stop him with the Nickle.

And that's the EXACT problem I'm talking about. Earl should be raping Nickel because you have one less bigger body. I know about Nickel and Nickel 335 being good d's I just hate running that because it just tells me you have to use what works in the game rather than what a real team would run and that sounds like that other game that I play

[Disasterpiece]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

And that's the EXACT problem I'm talking about. Earl should be raping Nickel because you have one less bigger body. I know about Nickel and Nickel 335 being good d's I just hate running that because it just tells me you have to use what works in the game rather than what a real team would run and that sounds like that other game that I play

I don't have one less bigger body. I play Browner in the box.

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

What makes that vid even funnier is that if you check out just about any 2K board you'll hear smack talk every single day about the QB's in Madden throwing 60 yards off the back foot. This was like 75 yards in the air off the back foot. The Legend mechanic is very arcade.

Yeah I was talking with Freak about this yesterday. When EA had it in their game even if it was not a complete pass, we sat here and talked about how unrealistic and arcade it was. Now it is in 2k it gets a pass? Hell no, no pass. Fix it and stop introducing the problematic aspects of EA's game into this game. You could not do this mess in 2k4 which is another reason why it was one of my favorites. In 2k4 you sprint back and if you throw the ball it wasn't going far. 2k3 was even better with it.

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

I don't have one less bigger body. I play Browner in the box.

hahah, damn man I have a team set up exactly like that to run Nickel. I still do not like that though but I gotta use it because it works . Reminds me too much of Madden. You can't run a Nickel on an every down basis in the NFL and expect good results, just ask the Raiders from 2005 - last in the league but they ran nickel every play because they didn't have a linebacker. Last in the league against the run and the pass. But in a video game Nickel is a better run stuffer than the standard defenses and that makes me sick LOL.

[kcxiv]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

It shouldnt get a pass, but you cannot do it every play. YOu have to let the guy kind of set up. They do need to fix that though. Not every qb can chuck it that far though. I have used plenty of QB's where i tried to do that and the ball ended up going 40 yards if i was lucky.

2k football is still leaps and bounds better then anything EA has put out in years though.

[LBzrule]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

2k football is still leaps and bounds better then anything EA has put out in years though.

But there are things that we constantly talked about being unrealistic in those games slipping in and that's what I think a great deal of guys are not satisfied with.

[grunt]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

If my mind serves me correctly, Ken Stabler played for the Oilers in 1980 did he not? I remember TE Mike Barber and they had a WR named Renfro. Per 8 man fronts, the 4-3 and its variations were still the popular fronts back then. The steel curtain, Dallas Cowboys Doomsday II, the 1980 Raiders squad were some some of the toughest defenses during that era and they were all 7 man fronts. Matter of fact the Curtain was a Tilted Nose 43/Umbrella front. Earl never faced a 46 Bear or a Split 44. The closest he came to facing something like that was the Steel Curtain, which his best output was only 89 rushing yards, in his rookie season, which was considered good against the Steel Curtain, but still eaten alive in RB vs defense terms.

The thing in the back of my mind is, Earl never had to face the 46 of the Bears, he never had to face the Crunch Bunch, He never had to face the 72 Dolphins D, he never had to face the 2000 Ravens, The Rams Fearsome Foursome or the Vikings Purple People Eaters - who where not very big but fast as all hell and lived in people's backfield's vs run and pass due to the quickness and speed. All he had to face was the Curtain and he got 1 shot at the Doomsday II of the Cowboys. He never put up over 100 against the Curtain. Again his best output was 89 yds. And he never ran over anyone on the Curtain either. The same year he put up the 89 yds on the curtain, they came back later and annihilated Campbell in the AFC Championship game. When it comes to the 46 of the Bears, The Crunch Bunch nad the 2000 Ravens you are talking about bigger players than Earl had to face. Lambert, Ham and those guys were around 225lbs at the most. But when you move to the 46 of the Bears, with Fridge, Singletary, Dent, ect you are in a different ball park size wise and speed wise. Same thing with the Crunch Bunch. Now you have Carson at 240 and a maniac in Lawrence Taylor. 2000 Ravens same thing. You got Goose and Adams up front and #52 who was 265lbs and was running free like a missile and destroying HB's.

What I want to know is what happened to Earl in the big games? 78 Championship game, NOTHING. 1980 Wildcard game against the Raiders who were the leagues 22nd ranked defense, NOTHING. 1979 Championship game vs Steelers - nothing. And in 79 the Curtain was starting to head south as it fell to the #7 defense in the league. Earl had his games and he dominated alot of teams. But there were other teams that had his number.

The problem with All Pro is the same problem that 2k4 and to a degree 2k5 had. The tackling physics are in favor of the RB first and foremost. In 2k4 and 2k5 I could shoot the gap and hit the RB as soon as he got the ball with Ray Lewis or Urlacher and the RB is already breaking the tackle. Now how can the RB concentrate on getting the handoff and then at the same time use strength and power to shrug off a defenders who are going to go down as top 10 best at their position? and they are running at full speed and you are not even accelerating yet because you gotta get the handoff. That's the thing that pisses me off about the game and has done so since 2k4.

Stop giving the offensive player the advantage when he hasn't done sh@t to get it. Make him earn it. I expect Earl to run me over if he is untouched and has a head of steam and I don't. But if I have a head of steam and he has a head of steam, let real physics along with what angle I take determine the outcome. Also they need to have a better mechanic for low tackling. If I am a Safety and I come from the side and tackle him low I shouldn't see my safety fold up, roll over and start having convulsions. Earl should get flipped over because I'm not trying to hit him where his power is. But if I have a 250 to 260 lb linebacker running full speed and earl is running full speed, but I come from the side and tackle him up high, don't let Earl automatically win. Now if I'm a 225 lb linebacker and that's Earl then let Earl have that. Secondly, I do not expect him to be running over anyone when he has to find the hole, come out of the hole and then start to accelerate to get up to speed. The game does not and never has IMO, taken into account realistically, in terms of physics, the velocity, angle and weight of players as they are coming into contact with one another. If it did then in 2k4 and 2k5 and 2k8 that RB would not be breaking the tackle when I shoot that gap and hit him as soon as he gets the football. He would be looking for his two front teeth.

Another thing about 2k8 is the double team blocking does not occur as much. This is a fronts problem and a linebacker alignment problem. In the 4-3, 3-4, 4-4 there are linebacker alignment problems. In the 4-3 all three line up too close. The Mike should be about 4 to 5 yards off the line of scrimmage. The outside backers should be 3 to 4 yards off the line of scrimmage. They have all of them around 2 yards off the line. And yes you can manually move them but that's too much damn micromanagement when you are also trying to use the hot routes to change zones, man other guys up and do other things. In the 3-4 the ILB's are too damn close. They both should be 4 to 5 yards off the line of scrimmage. Same thing with the 44. Well the 44 the alignment is just I won't even bother. The last thing too that I noticed when playing Freak yesterday is that the defensive line moves ON the snap. The Linebackers do not. Big problem. Even if they are blitzing they do not move on the snap of the football and that's a huge problem. Can you contain things despite the problem? Yes, but the point is that's a problem and a big one.

Let me try to respond. This is from pro football sport's encyclopedia.

Stabler was at the end of his career. He completed 64% of passes but he threw 28 ints vs 13 touchdowns. The 2 leading receivers were tight ends. Mike Barber led the team with 59 catches with an avg of 12 yds per catch and Dave Casper traded from Oakland had 56 catches and avg of 14 yds per catch. Rob Carpenter had 43 catches but he was a full back. Mr. Renfro led all wrs with .... 35 catches.

This was a very conservative and run oriented offense. If you stop Earl then you stop the oilers.

He didn't face the 46 but I am pretty sure he faced 8 men in the box since we all know the 46 is not a new defense. The 46 defense is related to dominant defensive schemes of the 40's and early 50's. Post world war II the double eagle fronts that was a dominant force in professional football.

Steelers defense in the 70's is still the best overall defense of all time. The linebackers were in the 220's but there corner backs was pushing 200 pounds also but let compare the weight of the great 85 bears defense.

Wilbur Marshall 225
Mike Singletary 228
Otis Wilson 232

We know it is not the size of the linebackers but technique and heart and I think most football historians would rate the Steelers lb corp above the bears.

Earl was stopped in playoffs games. The man carried the ball over 370 times and with that running style I would assume the pounding would take a toll.

Now, could 2k8 defense be better. Yes. Can I stop and contain most gold rbs. Yes. I got beat up by Earl last night for 120 yards on 14 carries. The first half I held Earl to under 2.5 yards a carry. In the second half I went away from my game play and he broke lose. My bad.

Oh yeah. This was a day one buy for me but I have not played with Earl ever. Not even in practice. Why? Too easy, not because he was arcadey but because in his prime he was close to being unstoppable.

Peace

PS

You know I respect your football knowledge but Earl was a beast in real life.

[101]

Re: Biggest reason why this game is arcadey

If my mind serves me correctly, Ken Stabler played for the Oilers in 1980 did he not? I remember TE Mike Barber and they had a WR named Renfro. Per 8 man fronts, the 4-3 and its variations were still the popular fronts back then. The steel curtain, Dallas Cowboys Doomsday II, the 1980 Raiders squad were some some of the toughest defenses during that era and they were all 7 man fronts. Matter of fact the Curtain was a Tilted Nose 43/Umbrella front. Earl never faced a 46 Bear or a Split 44. The closest he came to facing something like that was the Steel Curtain, which his best output was only 89 rushing yards, in his rookie season, which was considered good against the Steel Curtain, but still eaten alive in RB vs defense terms.
*snip*

Snipped to avoid unnecessary scrolling.

LB, that was awesome. I learned alot from that post since I'm too young to have watched Earl in his prime. I've been harping on this for awhile, well, not as much lately - but the 2K series IMO is way to animation driven. Not just with blocking and tackling but in all aspects of the game. Just think back to a situation where you felt like your DB was in good position break up or pick off a pass, but a bad animation takes him out of the play.

Usually, when an argument such is this one is brought up, most people will just harp on the "result" of the play, citing "well, in X game vs Y team, Z defender made a bad play and left the WR open yada yada yada" or as I've seen in this thread "Earl Campbell is a once in a lifetime talent" Just because you saw Campbell bowl over defenders while losing half of his uniform in the process on youtube does not justify EC shimmying tackles with no upfield momentum. The results, too me are irrelevant if the method in which they are achieved are unrealistic.