NFL Off Topic

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

2020 Modern Era HOF class:

• Edgerrin James
• Steve Atwater
• Isaac Bruce
• Steve Hutchinson
• Troy Polamalu

[kehlis]

Re: NFL Off Topic

That said, I don’t have too much of an issue with Steve Atwater being in the HOF, but this just means that Carnell Lake better be getting in soon because he was better All around at his peak

Carnell Lake was most certainly not better than Atwater.

[slickdtc]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Feels like Faneca, Lynch, and probably one of the receivers should’ve gotten in over Edgerrin James but didn’t because there was already a G, S, and WR going in.

My initial feeling on James says no way, but its so hard to judge RB. The norm really is becoming a big 3 or so years followed by some good and maybe just late accumulating stats towards the end. Being a part of the trio in Indy doesn’t hurt, though he didn’t get the ring with Manning and Harrison. I’d put someone like Clinton Portis above him — similar early high level success followed by years of high volume but not as high efficiency, but Portis averaged nearly a half yard more (but about 2500 yards less total). He carried some Redskins teams whereas James was always part of a team or group. Making that comparison, Portis deserves to eventually go in if Edge is in. And I’m not sure if that will happen.

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...-award-winners

» Pepsi Rookie of the Year: San Francisco 49ers defensive end Nick Bosa

» FedEx Air and Ground Players of the Year: Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson (Air) and Tennessee Titans running back Derrick Henry (Ground)


» AP Defensive Player of the Year: New England Patriots CB Stephon Gilmore

» Salute To Service Award Presented by USAA: Former Chargers LB Donnie Edwards

» AP Offensive Rookie of the Year: Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray

» AP Offensive Player of the Year: New Orleans Saints wide receiver Michael Thomas

» Anything But Ordinary Player of the Year presented by Microsoft Surface: Arizona Cardinals wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald

» AP Defensive Rookie of the Year: San Francisco 49ers defensive end Nick Bosa

» Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2020: Safety Steve Atwater, wide receiver Isaac Bruce, guard Steve Hutchinson, running back Edgerrin James and safety Troy Polamalu

» Art Rooney Sportsmanship Award: Washington Redskins running back Adrian Peterson

» AP Comeback Player of the Year: Tennessee Titans quarterback Ryan Tannehill

» AP Assistant Coach of the Year: Baltimore Ravens offensive coordinator Greg Roman


» Bridgestone Clutch Performance Play of the Year: Miami Dolphins' "Mountaineer Shot," as punter Matt Haack threw a trick play shovel pass touchdown to kicker Jason Sanders

» Deacon Jones Award: Tampa Bay Buccaneers DE Shaquil Barrett

» Bud Light Celly of the Year: Seattle Seahawks wide receiving corps for NSYNC "Bye Bye Bye" dance

» Don Shula NFL High School Coach of the Year Award: Matt Land, Dalton High School (Dalton, Ga.)

» Courtyard Unstoppable Performance of the Year: Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes in Week 2 vs. Raiders

» AP Coach of the Year: Baltimore Ravens coach John Harbaugh

» Daily Fantasy Player of the Year presented by Draft Kings: Carolina Panthers running back Christian McCaffrey

» AP Most Valuable Player: Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson

» Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year presented by Nationwide: Jacksonville Jaguars defensive lineman Calais Campbell

[LambertandHam]

Re: NFL Off Topic

2020 Modern Era HOF class:

• Edgerrin James
• Steve Atwater
• Isaac Bruce
• Steve Hutchinson
• Troy Polamalu

Really happy for Troy, he deserved it. Thought Faneca should have got in, hopefully next year.

[Mentch]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Carnell Lake was most certainly not better than Atwater.

Remind me which guy got an MVP vote? Remind me which guy had more All-Pros? Remind me which guy could actually cover?

Atwater is a guy I’m not a huge fan of. He was basically Kam Chancellor 2 decades earlier. Box safety that was a fierce hitter but not a great tackler. And unlike Atwater, Lake was fantastic in coverage. Lake could play every single position in the secondary with ease. Although Atwater was incredibly good at timing his hits, he was much more of a 1 trick pony and you could beat him consistently on intermediate and deep routes

[Mentch]

Re: NFL Off Topic

On another note, who else is getting sick of Larry Fitzgerald continually signing these 1 year deals to return to the Cardinals? He’s done it every season since 2016 and it’s to the point that I can’t stand him anymore. I’m so tired of everyone feeling sorry for him for being stuck on such a terrible organization. He does it to himself at this point. Clearly he doesn’t actually care about winning

[kehlis]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Remind me which guy got an MVP vote?

Lol, what? This is literally a made up argument.

Remind me which guy had more All-Pros?

Remind me which guy had more first team all pros.

Remind me which guy could actually cover?

Remind me which player had more career interceptions.




(See, I can cherry pick stats too)

[Mentch]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Lol, what? This is literally a made up argument.



Remind me which guy had more first team all pros.




Remind me which player had more career interceptions.




(See, I can cherry pick stats too)

It’s not a made up argument at all. The reason Favre and Barry sanders tied for the award in 1997 was because Peter King gave his mvp vote that season to Carnell lake. If King had voted for either of Favre or Sanders, it wouldn’t have been a tie. Now this isn’t something that’s common knowledge so I don’t totally blame you for thinking I pulled it out of my ***, but I actually didn’t

Lol, 2 first team all pros to 1 isn’t much of a difference. Let’s compare that to the bigger difference of 5 total all pros versus 3. Come on man

And judging secondary players by interceptions is one of the worst possible ways to do it because it doesn’t take into account the fact that some players aren’t thrown towards in general because they blanket their opponents. Lake was one of those guys. Atwater was never remotely feared in coverage

[TripleCrown9]

Re: NFL Off Topic

It’s not a made up argument at all. The reason Favre and Barry sanders tied for the award in 1997 was because Peter King gave his mvp vote that season to Carnell lake. If King had voted for either of Favre or Sanders, it wouldn’t have been a tie. Now this isn’t something that’s common knowledge so I don’t totally blame you for thinking I pulled it out of my ***, but I actually didn’t

Lol, 2 first team all pros to 1 isn’t much of a difference. Let’s compare that to the bigger difference of 5 total all pros versus 3. Come on man

And judging secondary players by interceptions is one of the worst possible ways to do it because it doesn’t take into account the fact that some players aren’t thrown towards in general because they blanket their opponents. Lake was one of those guys. Atwater was never remotely feared in coverage

You're absolutely right. 2 more is a much bigger difference that 1 more.

[kehlis]

Re: NFL Off Topic

It’s not a made up argument at all. The reason Favre and Barry sanders tied for the award in 1997 was because Peter King gave his mvp vote that season to Carnell lake. If King had voted for either of Favre or Sanders, it wouldn’t have been a tie. Now this isn’t something that’s common knowledge so I don’t totally blame you for thinking I pulled it out of my ***, but I actually didn’t

Lol, 2 first team all pros to 1 isn’t much of a difference. Let’s compare that to the bigger difference of 5 total all pros versus 3. Come on man

And judging secondary players by interceptions is one of the worst possible ways to do it because it doesn’t take into account the fact that some players aren’t thrown towards in general because they blanket their opponents. Lake was one of those guys. Atwater was never remotely feared in coverage

My point was that you were just using cherry picked numbers to get to your conclusion. We can all do that.

I know he got an MVP vote. That's a ludicrous argument for HOF fame though. There are a number of players who actually won the MVP and aren't in the Hall of Fame.

All pro is a good argument as I see that as one of the most objective. When your saying the one has more total over someone who has the most first team all pros you're pretty much looking at a wash.


And your last argument, while accurate, isn't an indication of Hall of Fame worthiness.

Atwater wasn't a cover safety because he wasn't asked to be. He was drafted to stop the run, not stop the pass which is why he easily surpassed Lake in tackles throughout his career.

So trying to compare their statistics as Safety's that didn't play the position the same way isn't fair. Which gets me back to pointing out that all you did was cherry pick stats towards Lake.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

On another note, who else is getting sick of Larry Fitzgerald continually signing these 1 year deals to return to the Cardinals? He’s done it every season since 2016 and it’s to the point that I can’t stand him anymore. I’m so tired of everyone feeling sorry for him for being stuck on such a terrible organization. He does it to himself at this point. Clearly he doesn’t actually care about winning

Wait...what? Lol

[Mentch]

Re: NFL Off Topic

My point was that you were just using cherry picked numbers to get to your conclusion. We can all do that.

I know he got an MVP vote. That's a ludicrous argument for HOF fame though. There are a number of players who actually won the MVP and aren't in the Hall of Fame.

All pro is a good argument as I see that as one of the most objective. When your saying the one has more total over someone who has the most first team all pros you're pretty much looking at a wash.


And your last argument, while accurate, isn't an indication of Hall of Fame worthiness.

Atwater wasn't a cover safety because he wasn't asked to be. He was drafted to stop the run, not stop the pass which is why he easily surpassed Lake in tackles throughout his career.

So trying to compare their statistics as Safety's that didn't play the position the same way isn't fair. Which gets me back to pointing out that all you did was cherry pick stats towards Lake.

I suppose the MVP vote is more of a miscellaneous argument, and kind of an easy way out. I’ll give you that one and admit that the all-pros may be a wash as well

That said I still think this is a legitimate debate. Both made the All-90s decade team and both excelled at different areas of the position. I suppose my biggest problem here is that I feel like cover safeties are always better than box safeties, just the same as I will always see man corners as better than zone corners. That’s the main reason I’ve been so willing to take Lake over Atwater, because he was so much more versatile. Lake transitioned to cornerback for an entire season after rod woodson tore his acl in the 1995 season opener and had literally no issues. I dont see Atwater being able to play cornerback If asked to do so, much less at a high level

[Mentch]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Wait...what? Lol

You’re not tired of Fitz pulling this “maybe I will retire, maybe I won’t” crap, and signing all these stupid 1 year deals year after year? Remember Favre did the exact same thing and everyone (understandably) got sick of hearing about it every season

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

You’re not tired of Fitz pulling this “maybe I will retire, maybe I won’t” crap, and signing all these stupid 1 year deals year after year? Remember Favre did the exact same thing and everyone (understandably) got sick of hearing about it every season

This might be the first I've ever heard of anyone complaining about it, and it certainly doesn't compare to the spectacle of the end of Favre's career.