Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

[mestevo]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

Sony announced this morning they've lost $6.4b in 2011, rather than the previously doubled forecasted loss in February of $2.7b.

[ScoobySnax]

With those kind of losses, it's gonna be a while before we see another console.


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[CaptainZombie]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

Sony doubles down on games, confirms 10,000 lay-offs

Sony doubles down on games, confirms 10,000 lay-offs

New CEO Kazuo Hirai has revealed Sony’s strategic plans to dig back out of several successive loss years, focusing on core businesses and making significant cuts.

“Sony is positioning digital imaging, game and mobile as the three main focus areas of its electronics business and plans to concentrate investment and technology development resources in these areas,” the company said in a press release.

“By growing these three businesses, Sony aims to generate approximately 70% of total sales and 85% of operating income for the entire electronics business from these categories by FY14.”

In the gaming stream, Sony highlighted the PlayStation 3, Vita and PlayStation Network as its core platforms, failing to mention the aging but still viable PSP whatsoever, in conjunction with “accessories and peripherals”.

“The Company also aims to increase sales by enriching its catalog of downloadable game titles and subscription services available through the PSN platform, and also by expanding the lineup of PlayStation Suite compatible devices and content,” it said.

“Sony will target game business sales of one trillion yen and operating income margin of 8% by FY14.”

In addition to refocusing on three successful streams, Sony intends to ‘turn around’ its ailing TV line; expand into emerging global markets; and launch new businesses.

Finally, it intends to ‘realign the business portfolio and optimize resources’ – restructuring headquarters and subsidiaries.

“As a result of these measures, Sony estimates that the headcount across the entire Sony Group will be reduced by approximately 10,000 in FY12,” the company confirmed.

The total number of layoffs includes staff expected to end up part of external companies and subsidiaries as Sony realigns its corporate structure, and will “consider various measures to secure continuity of employment for employees at their new destinations”.

The restructuring is expected to cost ¥75 billion yen during FY12, but Sony is targeting sales of ¥6 trillion with an operating income margin of 5% in its electronics business, in FY14.

[mestevo]

Meanwhile Vita had its worst week ever in Japan, less than 9000 units sold last week. They've only sold like 70k Vitas in Japan in the last 6 weeks.

Pachter predicting price cuts for both the PS3 and 360 at E3.


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[23]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

Sony always shoots themselves in the foot with their product pricing first and foremost

[LastExit]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

Wait a minute. You're telling me that I can't play if I'm offline? So what if somebody hacks XBOX Live like they did PSN last year? We wouldn't be able to play for a month while they try and get their **** together?

I don't see them following through with this or the concept of only allowing people to play new games that they've purchased and registered online. Both Nintendo and Sony would drum up a ton of ill will from their customer base and they would lose big time money because of it.

I don't know if these are just rumors or actual statements made by both companies, but if it's the latter they better think long and hard about 1) not allowing people to purchase used games and/or allow people to borrow them from a friend to try them out, and 2) making it so that you have to be online in order to play. If this is the case, I'll stick with my PS3 and they can think of an appropriate orifice where they could shove their new console.

[Meatfish87]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

At this point how much better could a line of next gen consoles be?

[mestevo]

At this point how much better could a line of next gen consoles be?

There is a lot of room for improvement, and not just graphics.

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[J_Posse]

From reading that bit on Sony's financial woes, we may not be seeing the PS4 for awhile. Being first to market and with an "affordable" price-point is the only way they have a chance of once again overtaking Microsoft and Nintendo.

from Spurs Nation

[choadler]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

There is a lot of room for improvement, and not just graphics.

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Like what? More motion gaming? Not interested. Xbox live integration, they can do that on the current console. AI, doubtful you are going to see a jump. The computers out now are as powerful as what these consoles will be. Graphics? Eh? most HD tv's out now are 720 to 1080, so perhaps you will see 1080p on all games, but I wouldn't expect more than that.

[mestevo]

Like what? More motion gaming? Not interested. Xbox live integration, they can do that on the current console. AI, doubtful you are going to see a jump. The computers out now are as powerful as what these consoles will be. Graphics? Eh? most HD tv's out now are 720 to 1080, so perhaps you will see 1080p on all games, but I wouldn't expect more than that.

This just shows how low expectations are by consumers. Games layer a number of systems to produce the affects, behaviors and graphics you see and interact with while playing them. They all have overhead, and even without an increase in graphics being able to layer even more will yield enough to make it worth upgrading. AI, weather, physics, etc, people just have a hard time understanding it after the jump to HD.

Speaking more generically, take your favorite sports title... Between audio, physics, graphics, say there are 10 systems there, tweaked and adjusted so they coexist, loading and unloading into the finite resources available on the console.

Now take those resources and multiply them by 5. 50 systems, or 25 that are each twice as powerful as each of those used previously.

It's pretty abstract and not specifically comparing hardware but that's the type of jump you need to understand.

Also, 1080p is a window, not indicative of performance or graphics fidelity. I can play Doom in 1080p, if that was a barometer for a game looking good I guess I don't need to play anything else.

As for PC AI not being to your standard, I look forward to seeing what kind of work goes into games that have the potential to sell millions every other year as a franchise with a much higher common denominator, while right now to do it would yield only hundreds of thousands of units sold if PC only outside of a few specific franchises. The ROI is a bit more delicate for PC only titles IMO.


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[choadler]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

This just shows how low expectations are by consumers. Games layer a number of systems to produce the affects, behaviors and graphics you see and interact with while playing them. They all have overhead, and even without an increase in graphics being able to layer even more will yield enough to make it worth upgrading. AI, weather, physics, etc, people just have a hard time understanding it after the jump to HD.

Speaking more generically, take your favorite sports title... Between audio, physics, graphics, say there are 10 systems there, tweaked and adjusted so they coexist, loading and unloading into the finite resources available on the console.

Now take those resources and multiply them by 5. 50 systems, or 25 that are each twice as powerful as each of those used previously.

It's pretty abstract and not specifically comparing hardware but that's the type of jump you need to understand.

Also, 1080p is a window, not indicative of performance or graphics fidelity. I can play Doom in 1080p, if that was a barometer for a game looking good I guess I don't need to play anything else.

As for PC AI not being to your standard, I look forward to seeing what kind of work goes into games that have the potential to sell millions every other year as a franchise with a much higher common denominator, while right now to do it would yield only hundreds of thousands of units sold if PC only outside of a few specific franchises. The ROI is a bit more delicate for PC only titles IMO.


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Like, I don't know skyrim? Game sold millions. Lackluster AI. The possibilities are there, but I remember these same conversations surrounding the current batch of consoles.

This isn't about low expectations but about being realistic.

[mestevo]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

Like, I don't know skyrim? Game sold millions. Lackluster AI. The possibilities are there, but I remember these same conversations surrounding the current batch of consoles.

This isn't about low expectations but about being realistic.

The lowest common denominator right now is the PS3 and 360. You think the AI should be smarter on PCs because there's more overhead to take advantage of? Skyrim is yet another console port to PC. Just has better graphics while providing the same game essentially across the two 6-7 year old consoles and brand new PCs. Skyrim was a very expensive game to make, and that money went towards the general production and fitting it into a package that will get it in front of the most eyeballs... that's certainly not the PC (or the UI wouldn't be what it is).

With over 5 million players on Steam playing Skyrim at one point, perhaps future Elder Scrolls games will do more to push the envelope. It's clear though they can still design for the lowest common denominator though and players will line up for the next one, so where's the motivation?

[Phobia]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

Processing and GPU advancements can only do so much. We can advance them endlessly. The issue comes with how we can write code to take advantage of this power and "make A.I. more intelligent". It is not related to the current hardware having limitations as it is our limitation to execute believable A.I. from 1s and 0s.

So I agree with both Mestevo and Choadler. Do I think we see huge advancements in A.I. next generation of consoles? Uhhhhh I say around 30% chance. The finding how to do things better and more efficient is always a possibility. I just think we are looking at something that is a lot more complicated than just raw processing power and building better GPUs and memory.

Personally I don't see the next generation consoles being as big a step from last gen to this gen in the "consumer eyes" but a bigger step from the "developer eyes". Graphics will continue to increase at the current rate they have been. New tech will be written for better rendering of textures, lighting, shadows, weather, etc. But expecting the new consoles to come out and we have hyper realism graphics is a stretch.

This added processing power will be handled much better in functions not associated with graphics. Loading times, more and better physics, more on screen characters & environment pieces, higher poly counts, etc.

So don't expect huge jumps in graphics, you will see small increases. But what you should be expecting is way more processes being handled.

[choadler]

Re: Both PS4 and XBOX3 to be shown at E3

Processing and GPU advancements can only do so much. We can advance them endlessly. The issue comes with how we can write code to take advantage of this power and "make A.I. more intelligent". It is not related to the current hardware having limitations as it is our limitation to execute believable A.I. from 1s and 0s.

So I agree with both Mestevo and Choadler. Do I think we see huge advancements in A.I. next generation of consoles? Uhhhhh I say around 30% chance. The finding how to do things better and more efficient is always a possibility. I just think we are looking at something that is a lot more complicated than just raw processing power and building better GPUs and memory.

Personally I don't see the next generation consoles being as big a step from last gen to this gen in the "consumer eyes" but a bigger step from the "developer eyes". Graphics will continue to increase at the current rate they have been. New tech will be written for better rendering of textures, lighting, shadows, weather, etc. But expecting the new consoles to come out and we have hyper realism graphics is a stretch.

This added processing power will be handled much better in functions not associated with graphics. Loading times, more and better physics, more on screen characters & environment pieces, higher poly counts, etc.

So don't expect huge jumps in graphics, you will see small increases. But what you should be expecting is way more processes being handled.

I agree with your assessment and basically said in a more eloquent manner what I was attempting to get across. Series such as Civilization and Total War still struggle with realistic and believable AI that don't cheat or use overwhelming numbers to create a challenge. These are series that are highly successful and not hampered by porting from consoles