Global Warming Never Felt So Good

[bamalam]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

You still haven't proven anything to me. He has. I'd love to see you stop talking out of your *** and actually back it up with something. Maybe you can write me a paper as to why his numbers and theories are incorrect? Then I'd take your word to mean something.

Until then... I think I'll trust a guy who has done years of research and has a lot of people behind him who have studied it too - over some kid online who thinks he knows everything.

many scientists disagree with the message that global warming is caused by human activity. they are just as credentialed as the scientists that theorize that humans driving suvs cause it. i never claimed to "know everything" , but i know humans driving suvs are not causing the recent climate change.
why dont you take time to look at both sides?

i also know that many of these same scientists that sound the alarm over global warming were warning us of the impending doom we were facing from global cooling back in the 70s.

i have no problem with investigating alternate energy sources, higher mpg vehicles , etc, but beware the politicians that say we have to agree to the kyoto protocol to save the planet,

under that agreement, the economic damage to the US would cripple our country. interesting that China would not be held to the same restrictions as the US and other western nations. also interesting that the western nations under this plan could still use just as much energy as we do now, if we "pay" $ to other nations below their required limits. big-time $ transfer from the US ... to the global community


oh, and i would like to see you stop talking out of yours, and tell me why the Mars ice caps are melting at the same time our planet is warming.

[bamalam]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

Eroding Cornerstone: Temperature Trends And Climate Models Match




The increase in the earth's surface temperature during the past 150 years is far less than the best climate models predicted.

Based on models, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted in 1990 that if no further action were taken to curb greenhouse gas emissions, we could expect an increase in temperature between 4.5 degrees and 6.0 degrees Celsius by 2050. In 1996 a new IPCC prediction was for an increase of 0.8 degrees to 3.5 degrees Celsius by 2100 - less than half the warming in twice the time. A U.S. government survey of the global climate model literature conducted predicted even less warming - between 0.5 degrees and 2.0 degrees Celsius by 2100. (See figure) With every new report the range of warming falls, which implies that the early models on which the most catastrophic claims were based were crude predictors of global climate change.

As the models improve they show less and less warming - which is in line with actual temperature data - and a reduced likelihood of harmful environmental events. Yet even the improved climate models are flawed. When the models' past and present temperature estimates are compared to actual past and present temperature measurements, the models are off by more than a degree. If the models cannot describe past or present temperatures correctly, why should we base public policy decisions on their predictions of future temperatures?





Eroding Cornerstone: Natural Climate Change Takes Thousands Of Years




Environmentalists have argued that the slight surface warming of just over 1 degree Fahrenheit the earth has experienced since the mid-1800s must be the result of human activities, since natural temperature changes this substantial occur over hundreds or even thousands of years. But a study published in the October 2, 1998, issue of Science showed that around 12,500 years ago global temperature rose by more than 20 degrees Fahrenheit in approximately 50 years. This natural change was more than 10 times the "catastrophic" warming environmentalists claim humans are causing - and it occurred in half the time. The finding confirms that global climate can change dramatically within a very short period and can do so absent human influence.





Eroding Cornerstone: Increased CO2 Emissions, Primarily From The United States, Are Responsible For Current Surface Warming




Environmentalists also have argued that since the United States is the largest emitter of CO2, the greenhouse gas of primary concern, it should take the lead in reducing emissions of greenhouse gases. Unfortunately for their argument, it turns out that the U.S. is in fact a leading "air filter." According to an October 16, 1998, article in Science, North America removes more carbon (about 2 billion tons) from the atmosphere than it emits (1.5 billion tons) each year. One reason is the tremendous regrowth in the eastern U.S. of forests that act as carbon sinks, removing CO2 from the atmosphere.

Even more damaging to the environmentalists' argument is the fact that most of the warming over the last century occurred before 1940 - preceding the vast majority of human-caused carbon dioxide emissions worldwide. Global warming alarmists have been unable to explain this mismatch between warming theory and scientific data.

Two scientific papers published in March of this year may explain the mismatch quite well. In the March 11 issue of Nature, scientists report that contrary to the belief that both CO2 and global temperature have remained fairly constant during the last 11,000 years, global temperature has remained relatively stable (± 1 1/2 degrees Fahrenheit from the average), but CO2 levels have varied greatly.

In a March 12, 1999, paper in Science, a team of researchers concluded that when the earth shifts from glacial to warm periods, as it does every 100,000 years or so, temperature rise consistently precedes increased CO2 levels by between 400 and 1,000 years. This finding is at odds with global warming theory and the idea that increased levels of CO2 force climate temperatures upward, but it does correspond with reality. The earth came out of a "Little Ice Age" during the middle of the last century. During that time global temperature was about 1 degree cooler than at present. If the current research is correct, one could surmise that the temperature increase at the end of the Little Ice Age has, like previous warming, preceded an entirely natural increase in CO2. While human activities have probably contributed to the current CO2 increase, the link between that increase and warmer temperatures becomes more uncertain with each new scientific discovery.





Conclusion




James Hansen, whose 1988 pronouncements started the clamor for action to prevent global warming, wrote in the 1998 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that "the forcings that drive long-term climate change are not known with accuracy sufficient to define future climate change." So much for being sure.

While the theory of global warming still may be correct, new evidence chipping away at its cornerstones should preclude precipitous, costly and perhaps unnecessary government actions. Whether human-induced climate change is occurring and, if so, what response is appropriate are questions that merit further research.

This brief analysis was written by NCPA Senior Policy Analyst H. Sterling Burnett

[yanks1]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

First of all, global warming is not a myth. The average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere is increasing and will continue to increase for the foreseeable future. And it isn't the simple fact that temperatures are going up which is alarming, it's the rate of temperature rise. As someone else said, the last decade was the hottest on record. Humans have been able to accurately measure temperature for over 200 years, so it is statistically significant for the hottest years to occur in such a manner. Solar output cannot account for this, nor can volcanoes. However, humans HAVE been dumping enormous amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution started, and the amount has been steadily increasing, along with the temperature, since world war two. If that isn't the biggest coincidence ever, I don't know what is....

Now, I'm not saying humans are the only cause, because I highly doubt that's true. But to flat out deny scientific fact, as many in this thread appear to be doing, reeks of creationist non-sense. If you don't want to accept obvious truths, nothing I say is going to change your mind. Could you at least let people who have spent much of their lives studying a subject present valid evidence without interjecting your dogma? This, "it isn't so because I say it isn't," viewpoint goes hand in hand with the absolute ignorance (possibly hatred) of science in the US. It's everywhere. Try this: tell an average American teenager you watch the Discovery or Science channel and see what their response is. Better yet, tell him/her you read an article about the recent discovery of liquid water flowing in gullies on Mars (I know how much everyone loves mentioning Mars in this thread). My guess is you'll get something like, "what are you a nerd?" If desiring an understanding for the universe around me makes me a nerd or geek, then I'm a nerd or geek. As strange a concept as most people may believe it is, it's actually perfectly natural to be curious. In fact, that's what makes us human. Our ability to understand and adapt to our environment (or adapt the environment to us) is what makes us a successful species. Unfortunately, we've become so successful in adapting our surroundings that we no longer need to use reason to survive.

What's the rant have to do with global warming? Well, we can continue on with insanity hoping that the world temperature turns around while it rises towards a breaking point, or we can decide to take a stand and demand our government(s) install measures to curb what is fast becoming a global crisis. Here's an idea to start, ban the use of coal for generating power. Of course, the NIMBY people won't want nuclear power plants. Ya can't win. Whatever.

Oh, and Rainey and p_rushing, they're called ice cores. I guess measuring the constituents of the atmosphere hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago isn't accurate enough.

edit to add- I just read bamalam's post. I'm sorry, but I would take any evidence or opinion presented by a site that says "Everything you know about air pollution is wrong" and "The United States will need more electric power in the coming years—lots more—and coal will be critical to meeting those power needs" with a grain of salt.

CO2 levels varied greatly over 11,000 years? Yeah, and then we came along and doubled the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere in the last 200.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

Lets see here.

These scientists believe there was an ice age. So, for there to no longer be an ice age, the overall climate would have had to increase to melt all the ice. So that means that Global Warming had to occur in the past. But wait, there weren't cars back then, cavemen weren't buring oil just for the fun of it, or maybe it was gas of the animals. So who cause Global warming back then?

Face it, when it comes to weather, scientists have no clue what happen in history. They can't go back and study what the climate did over hundreds of years. I'm not a scientist, but I can cleary see they are working with an incomplete set of data.

Best post in this thread.

[bamalam]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

Global Warming Theory Is Defective
by George Crispin
by George Crispin



James A. Marusek, nuclear physicist and engineer, presents a clear and easily understood paper (9 Mar 2004), on the Internet, that debunks global warming theory as presently accepted. It is my opinion that many competent and honest scientists agree with him but competent and honest scientists have a hard time being heard.

He understands that the earth is living within an Ice Age, (1–2 million years) in which it experiences Global Cooling Events every 1,000 to 1,500 years. Ice cores have demonstrated this. The theory refers to these events as "extinction boundaries," periods in which cosmic rays from supernova produce short intense periods of radiation at the planet's surface followed by long, less intense periods (hundreds of years). After it passes this phase our Earth will experience a long period of calm (maybe 80 million years) in which life will flourish better than it has in the past. Then as our solar system passes through a spiral arm of the Milky Way we will experience another "extinction boundary." This theory is accepted by astronomers and is the basis for his discussion.

He suggests that modern Global Warming theory is only a few decades old, that billions have been spent without turning up a strong support for it and evidence has been building up to reject it. It has been taken over by antihuman ideologists and politicians and made into a fear-based religious belief. In true science, evidence is found that supports theories; this one is no longer scientific at all. The Earth is presently experiencing a warming trend caused by a supernova, and we are coming out of the Little Ice Age that began in the early 1300’s.

The theory states that mankind has caused carbon dioxide levels to rise, which raises global temperatures uncontrollably. The increase in carbon dioxide is true but the fact that water evaporates, rising above the carbon dioxide and releasing heat into space is ignored.

Carl Sagan theorized that the elevated temperature of Venus (850 degrees) was brought about by a runaway global warming process and suggested this is happening here. He assumed that the sunlight on Venus was trapped by the atmosphere of the planet and ignored the fact that the energy heating that planet’s atmosphere includes radiated thermal energy released from the planet‘s interior. The elevated temperature on Venus is not due solely to solar radiation but also to magma-released heat. The carbon dioxide level on Venus is 96.5%. On Earth it has risen from 0.028% to 0.036%. It is a real stretch to compare the Earth with Venus.

Another element focuses on the destruction of forests and pollution from factories and automobiles. To understand this one must realize that forest acreage has been expanding and pollution levels have been declining, particularly in North America. And much of carbon dioxide action takes place in the oceans.

385 million years ago Earth had an atmosphere with 10 times the present carbon dioxide levels. Those elevated levels did not produce runaway global warming then; there is no reason to assume they would do so today. Plant life thrives under enriched carbon dioxide levels and is responding to this increase.

To summarize, a strong link between carbon dioxide levels and global temperatures has not been established, the idea of runaway warming is not supported, comparing us to the planet Venus is inappropriate, the impact of the oceans has not been investigated adequately, forests are growing and pollution is coming under control. Global warming (climate change) is natural, is not caused by man, and is something to be lived with.

Note: the Auburn-Opelika News fired me as a columnist for expressing such politically incorrect views. But I have just a slightly larger readership on the worldwide LRC.

July 26, 2005

[bamalam]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

The Ice Age Theory

The 1960s and 1970s, however, were substantially cooler than previous decades in the northern hemisphere. The global warming theory lost favor and a new theory emerged to supplant it. Many scientists and environmentalists then believed that in fact global warming never had been a real threat and that the concern should be about global cooling. Just as many supporters of the global warming theory argue today, the culprit was said to be human economic activity -- chiefly dust. And just as global warming predictions today are usually stated as fact, so the coming "Ice Age" was presented to the public as fact in the 1960s and 1970s. The only question, according to numerous nationally recognized proponents, was not whether an Ice Age would occur if man continued his destructive activities, but how soon it would come and how devastating the cold would be. (For examples of colorful and forceful quotes by nationally recognized proponents of global cooling, see Anna Bray, "The Ice Age Cometh," Policy Review, No. 58, Fall 1991.)

[23]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

LOL, posting those articles does nothing for this thread. A few people overreacting to the weather and all of a sudden we'll heat up and cook ourselves by the year.

Anyone have a theory on Mars?

[bamalam]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

just having some fun with it. i found these for timmay who wanted to see some info that disagrees with algore.

[23]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

I know. I just thought it funny that although you did that, it still wont convice him either way. That's fine and all and I agree, post a rebuttal refute it instead of sticking and leaving.

Once the thread dies, everyone will feel the same way and the weather will do what it pleases without the consent of us.

[GeePee20]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

Global warming very well may be a myth. But what possible reason is there to not at least try and prevent it from happening if it is going to happen? It would not take that much to slow down CO2 emissions. Higher mileage restrictions across the globe would do wonders. How about the U.S. takes some money away from that ridiculous military budget and uses some of that money to research alternative fuel sources? Not only would it potentially prevent global warming but it would also reduce our dependency on foreign oil and even our oil reserves. I know we can all agree we need to move away from oil. The world will run out of oil eventually and that is a fact that everyone agrees on, might as well start heavily trying to find alternative fuels. So there really is no downside here when you look at it.

Life always presents threats. Most of them will probably not matriculate but if we don't do anything to prevent them then the one that is real will destroy us. Did anyone disagree with developing missile defense systems to protect us from the former Soviet Union? That never happened but if it did it would have been catastrophic. If your neighbor tells you he might come over and kick your *** if you don't stop playing loud music at night, are you going to just deny the risk and keep playing your music?

[BigRed]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

I look at the planet the same way I look at a river. If you dam up a river the water will either eventually rise over the dam or go around it. You can never dam it up forever.

Well, the planet is the same way. If it's going to heat up...it's going to heat up and if it's going to cool off...it's going to cool off. To think we have any type of control over this from happening is such a narcissistic view to adopt. Should we take better care of things? Sure. If for no other reason than to make the place look and smell nice.

And who's to say the planet isn't gradating back to normal. I believe the planet was rather tropical WAY back when the dinosaurs roamed which was followed by an ice age...right?

Which one is normal? And who's to say the time we live in right now is normal?

This planet has been around a LONG time. It has survived cold periods, hot periods, asteriods, meteors, volcanoes, etc., etc., etc. The atmosphere was once convered in volcanic ash and sulfric gases for decades and was able to repair itself.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm too naive. Maybe I'm just lazy. I recycle. I try to conserve gas. I don't litter. I keep the flactuance to a minimum. But, I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do.

But I do know that Mother Nature is a Bitch and will ALWAYS prevail. You can try to stop that river, but you won't stop it forever.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

I'm down for an ice age, I don't know about you guys.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

I'm down for an ice age, I don't know about you guys.

Alright wolly mammoths are coming back!

Edit: But I'll be dead by then.

[GeePee20]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

I look at the planet the same way I look at a river. If you dam up a river the water will either eventually rise over the dam or go around it. You can never dam it up forever.

Well, the planet is the same way. If it's going to heat up...it's going to heat up and if it's going to cool off...it's going to cool off. To think we have any type of control over this from happening is such a narcissistic view to adopt. Should we take better care of things? Sure. If for no other reason than to make the place look and smell nice.

And who's to say the planet isn't gradating back to normal. I believe the planet was rather tropical WAY back when the dinosaurs roamed which was followed by an ice age...right?

Which one is normal? And who's to say the time we live in right now is normal?

This planet has been around a LONG time. It has survived cold periods, hot periods, asteriods, meteors, volcanoes, etc., etc., etc. The atmosphere was once convered in volcanic ash and sulfric gases for decades and was able to repair itself.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm too naive. Maybe I'm just lazy. I recycle. I try to conserve gas. I don't litter. I keep the flactuance to a minimum. But, I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do.

But I do know that Mother Nature is a Bitch and will ALWAYS prevail. You can try to stop that river, but you won't stop it forever.

So we are supposed to just let the next generation inherit a potentially terrible world? And I think you are missing the point. It is not about saving the planet itself. Earth will carry on no matter what. But our way of life could be terribly threatened by extreme weather and flooding due to the oceans rising. Eventually all humans will die out but don't you want to prevent that from happening for as long as possible? If we can prevent it then it'd be stupid to just ignore something like this.

I know I don't want my kids or my kids' kids blaming my generation and my parents' generation for destroying life on this planet.

[BigRed]

Re: Global Warming Never Felt So Good

So we are supposed to just let the next generation inherit a potentially terrible world? And I think you are missing the point. It is not about saving the planet itself. Earth will carry on no matter what. But our way of life could be terribly threatened by extreme weather and flooding due to the oceans rising. Eventually all humans will die out but don't you want to prevent that from happening for as long as possible? If we can prevent it then it'd be stupid to just ignore something like this.

I know I don't want my kids or my kids' kids blaming my generation and my parents' generation for destroying life on this planet.

First of all, kids always blame their parents for how 'sucky' things are. Secondly, you completely missed the point of my post. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE PLANET. The planet will do what the planet will do. If it's gonna cause hurricanes, there's gonna be hurricanes. Would I stop it if I could? You betcha. But if you would have read my post, you would have understood that I don't think we can prevent it.