*** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[Beantown]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

That's how I feel as well. Good idea, poor execution. This gets back to my point about the writers wasting so much time with the alt universe just to throw the viewers off. What was the point of us having entire episodes based on Sayid, Jin/Sun, Sawyer, etc in the flash sideways?

It was meant to be Jack's spiritual closure, everything else we saw in the flash sideways was there solely to throw the viewer off. It was a complete waste of time. That's the only thing that really bothers me.

I'm pretty sure it was meant to be closure for them all. As Christian said, "This is the place you ALL created." It wasn't just Jack's closure, it was everyone's. We saw everything through Jack's point of view, in a sense, and in the end he was the missing piece of the puzzle to allow everyone's spirit to move on, but the flash sideways were not just for Jack. It was a "reality/world" created by all of the Losties in order for them to move on as a group. Sawyer and Juliet needed closer, Kate needed to make things right with Claire, Desmond and Hurley were the "special" members who had to be the catalysts for everyone else to remember, Sun and Jin needed to be reminded that even though they were dead their daughter was perfectly healthy in the real world, Locke needed to be saved and end up happy with Helen, Sayid and Shannon (ugh to the relationship, but Shannon and Boone's return scene with Hurley/Sayid was done perfectly to me) needed to heal each other once again.

That's how I viewed it, at least. They had all remembered, they had all been ready to move on, but in order to do that this specific group needed Jack to save them all once again and remember so he could let go, which was Juxtaposed with him saving the Island and finally reaching his "purpose" on the Island.

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

yea, pretty much the only attachment I have with these characters was the good acting...

These guys didn't have the most deep dialogue...

I'm also not buying the reunion, how were they important to each other when they rarely even cared for each other???

I dont see how the years spent on the island was their most important times in their life, cuz it didnt show it in season 1-5

You don't think those characters cared for each other? I think you need to go back and watch it from the start. It's VERY obvious they cared for each other and "fixed" each other.

There was always a way off the Island. Ben told Michael how to get off and the Oceanic 6 followed the same path to get away.

Jacob just didn't share that with anyone.

Now how did DHARMA find this out? Again, I agree that the DHARMA Initiative could have been explained a whole lot more. They needed an episode centered around Alvin Hanso, Pierre Chang and Charles Widmore.

Dharma built an entire Dharma station in the church to find the Island. It was probably the first Dharma station built.

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Why should it matter, though?

The show was always about the characters and their journey. The afterlife shows you that, just like when they were alive, they still needed each other to find themselves.

Everyone kept focusing on the island and it's obvious, from the episodes some calling "fillers" or whatever" that it was always about the main characters.

I find it hard to believe you dont see how people were "tricked". Take how you feel about lost away for a second, or weather or not you like the finale or loved it or hated it.

The fact is that elements of the whole alternate timeline were tricks. There was no reason for the character of David other than to trick us. Why dedicate a whole episode to Ben making different choices with Alex at school leading us to believe that whatever changed on the island changed these people.

Im not trying to make it seem like they were being malicious,etc. But I mean the writers themselves would have to admit they set out to trick us for most of the season.

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

1 thing that i cant shake is what is the deal with a few "alternate reality" things: was Jacks kid just there to trick us? What is the deal with the "baby" in the church. Obviously its supposed to be AAron, but it makes no sense as Aaron should have been a grown man.

Those characters were there (Aaron, David) because they needed to be in order for the Losties to get their memory of who they are back. Aaron had to be born to make Claire, Charlie and Kate see their past.

I think David was there to show us from the beginning that "something wasn't right" in that reality.

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I find it hard to believe you dont see how people were "tricked". Take how you feel about lost away for a second, or weather or not you like the finale or loved it or hated it.

The fact is that elements of the whole alternate timeline were tricks. There was no reason for the character of David other than to trick us. Why dedicate a whole episode to Ben making different choices with Alex at school leading us to believe that whatever changed on the island changed these people.

Im not trying to make it seem like they were being malicious,etc. But I mean the writers themselves would have to admit they set out to trick us for most of the season.

But what happened on the Island DID change those people. How could you not see that?

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

But what happened on the Island DID change those people. How could you not see that?

yeah it did, but its not like Ben let Alex die on the island and then in the Alt reality "learned from his mistakes". On the Island ben was one way, and we saw him as a changed person on the island by the end of the show, he in many ways redeemed himself,etc. In the Alt reality, they made it seem as though the island never happened and because of that, they were all different.

[techhokies]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I agree 100% with Yankeepride. Although I won't just dismiss the flash sideways as a different show, that's the only thing that ruined this episode and the season in general. With that said, this episode was still one of the most amazing pieces of work I have ever seen on tv or in the movies.

People will find faults with the on island storyline with not enough questions being answered but all of that is minor. The character stories were ended perfectly and that's really the only thing I cared for. I wanted to know what the island was, but after I got the answer of the cave of light, I realized that maybe I don't really want to know what the island is. I'd rather just leave it up my imagination. Turned out, the answers I made up for myself were more satisfactory than the ones they spoon fed me.

But I too, like every other person that watched this show, don't know what to make of the flash sideways. I understand what it is, but it just doesn't make sense and there are a million holes in their explanation. Are you telling me that Jin and Sun cared more about Boone than their kid. They could have just done away with this flash sideways, or if they really wanted that to be in the ending, introduce it only in the last couple episodes. Seeing Kate escape in the airport added no further enjoyment or relativity to the conclusion of the show.

All the discussions I'm having with friends right now are about that sideways world and all the flaws in their explanations.

[ehh]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm pretty sure it was meant to be closure for them all. As Christian said, "This is the place you ALL created." It wasn't just Jack's closure, it was everyone's. We saw everything through Jack's point of view, in a sense, and in the end he was the missing piece of the puzzle to allow everyone's spirit to move on, but the flash sideways were not just for Jack. It was a "reality/world" created by all of the Losties in order for them to move on as a group. Sawyer and Juliet needed closer, Kate needed to make things right with Claire, Desmond and Hurley were the "special" members who had to be the catalysts for everyone else to remember, Sun and Jin needed to be reminded that even though they were dead their daughter was perfectly healthy in the real world, Locke needed to be saved and end up happy with Helen, Sayid and Shannon (ugh to the relationship, but Shannon and Boone's return scene with Hurley/Sayid was done perfectly to me) needed to heal each other once again.

That's how I viewed it, at least. They had all remembered, they had all been ready to move on, but in order to do that this specific group needed Jack to save them all once again and remember so he could let go, which was Juxtaposed with him saving the Island and finally reaching his "purpose" on the Island.

I can see why you view it that way but that doesn't relate to any religious/afterlife beliefs.

If every single Lostie was in the church then I could have an easier time buying it. But the fact that only certain characters were there waiting for Jack so they could walk into the light together - that's stretching it way too much for me.

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

yeah it did, but its not like Ben let Alex die on the island and then in the Alt reality "learned from his mistakes". On the Island ben was one way, and we saw him as a changed person on the island by the end of the show, he in many ways redeemed himself,etc. In the Alt reality, they made it seem as though the island never happened and because of that, they were all different.

Things that were happening in the alt were running very parallel to the Island. Ben became selfless on the Island in the same episode he became selfless about Alex with the principal.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

-snip-

There were always elements in the show that were misleading.

Why is this a shock?

Again, I can sit there and look for things to complain about just like the rest of you. As I mentioned, they never explained the smoke monster. When MIB was thrown into the light, why did he become the SM? Desmond can withstand it, but in the same vain Jack shouldn't be able to withstand the light, right? Notice he was "thrown" and in the same position MIB's body was when Jacob found him dead.

It's all left for interpretation. People complain when the answers are spoon fed to them and they complain when it's left open ended.

Oh well. I enjoyed it. Won't see a show like this again for a while.

[Beantown]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I can see why you view it that way but that doesn't relate to any religious/afterlife beliefs.

If every single Lostie was in the church then I could have an easier time buying it. But the fact that only certain characters were there waiting for Jack so they could walk into the light together - that's stretching it way too much for me.

But which characters that were missing truly had a point to be there, or made sense being there?

We know what happened to Michael's soul - he's trapped on the Island whispering.

Ecko, Ana Lucia, all of those characters didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Ecko's soul found its peace while on the Island and he was "punished' by the Smoke Monster while there, ending his journey.

And truthfully, I can't think of anyone else that was missing, other than Miles, Alpert and Frank. Maybe I'm just forgetting someone, though, so I'd be interested to hear who else you wanted to see in there to buy that it wasn't just Jack's.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Why should it matter, though?

The show was always about the characters and their journey. The afterlife shows you that, just like when they were alive, they still needed each other to find themselves.

Everyone kept focusing on the island and it's obvious, from the episodes some calling "fillers" or whatever" that it was always about the main characters.

But the Island story did all of that too. We got everything we needed from that. We got the characters, their journey, their ups and downs, the family connection, sacrifice, acceptance.

Yes, the show was about the characters first and foremost, but the story about them being on the Island is what accentuated the importance of those characters.

The Island is extremely important. If you don't have the Island then you have the flash-sideways and the show was never about just that.

I feel the focus should be on the opposite. Everyone is focusing on the flash-sideways which was a story element introduced in Season 6 and is ignoring everything that happened on the Island which consisted of Seasons 1-6.

Everything the flash-sideways was written to show (all those things you expressed) was given to us in the Island story.


edit:

In short, we basically agree. I just don't think we needed the flash-sideways at all. It was redundant in my opinion. Jack accepting he has to let go was right there when Jack sacrificed his life for the Island and his friends, climbed out of the thing and laid his body to rest where he started his journey. The End.

[Beantown]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

When MIB was thrown into the light, why did he become the SM? Desmond can withstand it, but in the same vain Jack shouldn't be able to withstand the light, right? Notice he was "thrown" and in the same position MIB's body was when Jacob found him dead.

Don't know why The Man in Black became the Smoke Monster, but as for the other two: Desmond could withstand it because of his immunity, we all know that, and I think the reason Jack didn't turn into a smoke monster is because he went in there when a) the light was out, and b) he was not searching for power, or greed, or anything. He was in the light to save the Island and to keep the light from being extinguished. I think that's the reason that, unlike the MiB who had the greed and seemed to want the light for the power to escape from the Island finally, he received a "fate worse than death," while Jack, who went in selflessly, was spared as a "savior."

Again, just my take.

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Things that were happening in the alt were running very parallel to the Island. Ben became selfless on the Island in the same episode he became selfless about Alex with the principal.

thats the thing though, we thought that when we were watching it but per the ending, it was not related. what happened in the alt was what happened after Ben died years later. For all we know it was 200 years between what we saw on the island and Ben helping Alex in the Alt timeline. especially since ben was the new "alpert" he prob lived a long time.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

And truthfully, I can't think of anyone else that was missing, other than Miles, Alpert and Frank. Maybe I'm just forgetting someone, though, so I'd be interested to hear who else you wanted to see in there to buy that it wasn't just Jack's.

Walt was the only one that I felt should have been there.

Everyone else wasn't on the original flight. Michael being trapped on the island made sense. But Walt is the only one that should've been there.

And it was obvious why he couldn't be there - he grew up and looked too old to be cast in that scene and still fit.

But the Island story did all of that too. We got everything we needed from that. We got the characters, their journey, their ups and downs, the family connection, sacrifice, acceptance.

Yes, the show was about the characters first and foremost, but the story about them being on the Island is what accentuated the importance of those characters.

The Island is extremely important. If you don't have the Island then you have the flash-sideways and the show was never about just that.

I feel the focus should be on the opposite. Everyone is focusing on the flash-sideways which was a story element introduced in Season 6 and is ignoring everything that happened on the Island which consisted of Seasons 1-6.

Everything the flash-sideways was written to show (all those things you expressed) was given to us in the Island story.

But I'm not the one complaining about it.

It gives a deeper sense of the characters and how their lives were changed by the flight. There is no what-if - we saw what happened if the flight never crashed, so to speak. Just not in the sense some would like.

The characters didn't know they were dead. They thought they were alive. It was only until Desmond started doing his actions that they realized what happened.

Don't know why The Man in Black became the Smoke Monster, but as for the other two: Desmond could withstand it because of his immunity, we all know that, and I think the reason Jack didn't turn into a smoke monster is because he went in there when a) the light was out, and b) he was not searching for power, or greed, or anything. He was in the light to save the Island and to keep the light from being extinguished. I think that's the reason that, unlike the MiB who had the greed and seemed to want the light for the power to escape from the Island finally, he received a "fate worse than death," while Jack, who went in selflessly, was spared as a "savior."

Again, just my take.

This is the beauty of the show. I don't accept your interpretation as 100%, but that's what is so great about it - I don't have to. You can't be 100% right, and neither can I.