*** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Some great posts here. I'm glad that so many enjoyed the ending and people like longhorn and Skierk are looking at it the right way.

But I'm not one of those people.
I'm actually more bitter this morning than I was last night, lol.

I was very interested in the science of the show. At the very beginning the producers said everything could be explained by science. Then half way through (s4 maybe?) they took it back. It allowed them to wander down a religious/philosophical road and abandon all the questions and mysteries they had raised. With the wave of a wand they built an excuse for not having to explain a lot of questions they raised (and centered several shows around, ie THE NUMBERS).

I loved the beginning when we heard about The Others and then the Dharma initiative. They planted seeds about Dharma and even had websites giving out clues. That stuff was super cool. It was a mystery.

I guess I'm one of the minority in that I cared very little, or had very little emotional attachment to most of the characters.
I HATED Jack. I couldn't stand Hurely. The only people I had a lot of interest in were Ben (because of his background) and Sawyer (for his comedic value).
The STORY and mysteries was what had me connected to the show.

That's why I'm very bitter. It always about the island for me. So that's why I felt the writers hosed me.
They bring up a Mother figure and the Light or Heart of the island but never even attempt to explain how they came to be. How their powers work.

Ben gets off the island and confronts Widemore and dialogue such as "You know that's against the rules!" is thrown about. But that is NEVER explained! What rules? Who made the rules? What happens when you violate the rules?

Or how about when Sawyer was in that fever/coma type condition and when Kate was near him he blurted out something Kate's Step-Father said to her when she was off the island. How did that happen?
Is this another example of 'No need to ask this question, it's all MAGIC and the real story is about relationships so no need to explain!'.

In my opinion the writers had a clear direction at the beginning. But then ABC said, "Hey you can't stop now! The ratings are huge and we need 100 episodes for the sweetest plumb - syndication!". So the writers are forced to extend it and they run out of scientific ideas so they come up with the religious/philosophical angle so they can elongate it.
"Hey there's superman flying through the air! What do you mean it doesn't make any sense? It's MAGIC! And hey, you're supposed to love Jack. And Jack found redemption so please ignore that weird thing and storyline we threw in way back in Season 3. It doesn't matter now.

LOL, as you can see my bitterness got worse as this long post progressed.
It's just that right now I feel like the last 6 years I've invested was a waste. I don't watch a lot of TV. Lost was the only show I watched every week. And I feel like I was duped for my patience and loyalty.

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Sorry guys, one last thought.

If this show was only supposed to be about the characters and them finding their way, why did we need Dharma, the Others, smoke monster, a statue with a foot, etc?

Why not have them just be shipwrecked and finding a way off?

That's why I'm ticked that the writers didn't do enough to tie-up loose ends that they created.
They used things like the Numbers to keep the audience interested and hooked. And then, in the end, when they couldn't even come close to explaining half the junk they dreamt up, they say "Hey, it's about Jack and their lives"?
To me, that's a slap in the face.

And I still think they changed their minds and direction of the show.
How do you go from saying the smoke monster is a 'security system' (as stated by Locke in S1 (or 2?) and by Rousseau's shipmates in S5 to saying he's really the MIB and he wants to kill the island.

How did Dharma figure out to put up electro magnetic fences to keep smokie away?
Wouldn't smokie have just murdered all of Dharma before they could figure this out?

And making Hurly the new Jacob was another quick patch job. Nobody expected him to be a guardian. Everyone knew it should have been Jack. But then they say "It was just temporary"? Hogwash.

And yes, I'm still miffed about the Numbers being waved aside as "Jacob's will".
The Numbers is what kept millions of people interested. They were a huge part of this show in the first 3 years. And then they're just dropped like a bad habit.

Ugh, sorry for the complaining guys. But this bad taste in my mouth won't go away and I find these forums help a bit.

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I went overboard, but you didn't? Right. I guess you don't remember your "name calling", as you put it, as well. I've seen you do this before, yet you're never to blame.

Truth.

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

The numbers are what brought Hurley to the Island, and Hurley eventually became Jacob's replacement...

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Christian.

He said they were all dead.

?

His father told him. (jack)

Too literal for me.

It's a symbolic ending and Christian was never very direct in the entire conversation.

I don't see how him saying: "You're dead," really means they were dead. It could mean many, many other things.

The way I see it, I can't accept it being purgatory or the after-life when actions in that flash-sideways were directly affected by the actions in the present universe.

But, I guess that was their point. There is no set meaning for the flash-sideways. I don't think there is, at least. I think it is whatever you want it to be.

Me, I want it to be nothing because I didn't care for it at all. The Island story and those characters on the Island is all that mattered to me.

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

The numbers are what brought Hurley to the Island, and Hurley eventually became Jacob's replacement...

So Jacob manipulated the numbers?
He said himself that he couldn't force choice on people and the Dharma group chose those numbers for the hatch and someone chose to use those numbers for the repeated broadcast.

If that's true then Jacob can force choice on people. Which means the show has yet another hole.

But I guess we shouldn't think too much about it because in the end it's about characters and their redemption. No need to point out flaws in prior plotlines. It's all about Jack and him letting go.
So who cares what the writers said in previous episodes.

[greenegt]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I really liked the ending. I'm glad that the writers didn't invalidate what happened on the island. All of the character deaths were real and nothing was "reset". I'm ok with not having all of the mysteries explained to us.

[ehh]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

The semi-cheap trick to try to get some emotion by having Vincent lay down next to Jack as Jack passed away was the only moment that was even remotely emotional for me last night. When the final "LOST" came on to the screen and the show ended, I was sitting on my couch confused and still trying to put it all together.

I never thought the flash-sideways was purgatory and I still don't. As others have said, I felt we were seeing some sort of spiritual closure from Jack's perspective. A lot of the pieces of this spiritual closure are questionable though. There are more holes than you can count and so many things you can question and complain about but I realized early on in S4 that there was not going to be a good way to end the show. It was going to be impossible to tie up all the loose ends and make every fan happy.

The following things are clear to me...

1. Everything that ever happened on the island actually happened, no matter how ridiculous or sci-fi. Including Jack dying, Smokie and Jacob existing, time travel and the Ajira flight successfully escaping. LaPidis, Miles, Alpert, Kate and Sawyer survived and went on to live their lives back in society. I have no idea what happened to Desmond, I assume he got home since Ben said "there's another way" to get off the Island. Hurley and Ben protected the Island for a long time. The scene outside the church was cool, when Hurley told Ben he was a great #2 and Ben said Hurley was a great #1 - referring to their tandem of protecting the Island after Jack died and the Ajira flight left.

2. The "flash sideways" was not a flash sideways or an alternate reality. It was part of Jack's spiritual closure, though I'm not convinced that it was intended to be this way from the start of S6. Some of the stuff just makes no sense. Why is there so much focus on other characters if it's supposed to be from Jack's perspective? Why does Faraday discuss the detonation of an atomic bomb and it creating two realities? Detonating the bomb did work in S5, everything on the island we saw in S6 was actually happening while the "flash sideways" was the start of Jack's letting go - we just didn't know we were starting to see this from the very beginning of S6 - since there was no way to know it anyway, why would Jack's closure have entire eps focused on Sayid, Jin/Sun, etc?

3. Although Christian said that everyone in the church was dead, I don't necessarily believe it. I think it's just a version of the people who mattered most in his life were there to watch him "let go and move on". I don't think it means they were all dead. The "some died before you, some died after you" is weird, unless the spiritual closure Jack is having is some 40-50 years in the future after every single person in the church had passed away. His son wasn't there because he doesn't have a son. He was never married to Juliet or any of the stuff from the flash sideways. As for other important people not being, I'm just going to let that slide (Michael, Walt, Jack's mom, etc). Also, if this is Jack's spiritual closure then why is Christian the one walking through the door in to the light? Shouldn't it be Jack? The only other thing I can think of is that everyone from the Island had to be there at once and they were all going to pass into the light one at a time (since Locke told Jack they'd been waiting for him and Ben was still 'taking care of some things' before he went in the church). If that's the case then should Jack have been there a head of time since he died, presumably, way before Sawyer and Kate?

I'm still waiting to hear more theories and make more sense of the finale. As of now I feel it was okay, I like how the story ended on the Island even though it was ridiculous with the whole "plug and unplug the golden drain to kill Smokie". I think that's kind of getting lost since everyone is talking about the church scene. The Island part was good, even though it was extremely sci-fi and a lot of questions were left unanswered but I'm okay with that.

[bigmoe]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm not sure "life" on the island really happened. Did Jack EVER open his eye or just close them as the finale scene suggests?

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I don't think when you died had any bearing on when you were enlightened.

[Jistic]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Damn I can't find the season 1 thread. I want to go back, cuz I remember saying it was purgatory back then. I didn't watch last night as I quit years ago, but sounds pretty much like that it was purgatory right?

[Skerik]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Damn I can't find the season 1 thread. I want to go back, cuz I remember saying it was purgatory back then. I didn't watch last night as I quit years ago, but sounds pretty much like that it was purgatory right?

Over half of Lost's audience thought they were in purgatory from the start of the show, a theory which the producers explicitly shot down in one of their many podcasts. Everything on the island actually happened - only the alt timeline in season 6 was "purgatorial" in nature. So no, they were not in purgatory back when you were watching the show.

[bigmoe]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm guessing Claire's baby was never born. Wasn't the baby in the church of moving on? Island world didn't exist,no baby could be born there and survive.

[Pete1210]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm not sure "life" on the island really happened. Did Jack EVER open his eye or just close them as the finale scene suggests?

I question this as well, due to Jack dying at the end in the same spot he ended up with when the plane crashes. And the scene at the credits showing the aftermath of the initial plane crash with apparantly no survivors.
But then the life on the Island must have been real because the characters use those real memories of their time on the Island to "move on."
But then the stuff on the Island was so outlandish - time shifts, surviving nuclear bombs, Lockes dad in a box - how could that stuff have really happened? (OK its fiction - that explains it?)

I am conflicted about Lost. It was a great story as far as the characters' journeys, transformations and endings. But I also watched trying to figure out what was going on with all the Islands' mysteries. And that turned out to be a cluster****.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I just feel like the whole idea of a flash-sideways was a poor decision.

I think the producers knew what they wanted from the Present Island story and no matter how ridiculous some of the actions were, the end result makes sense. Did some questions not get answered? Yea, some didn't. But did we get an ending? Yes. I think people are just trying to find holes if you don't think the Island story made sense in the end.

The Flash-sideways seems to me, now after watching this finale, a late decision made to appease the fans that wanted the bomb to do something. Honestly, there should have never been a bomb to begin with on the show. All of that did absolutely nothing and was a waste of time for those watching for the Island story.

That Flash-sideways ending was an example of not knowing what to do with a story element that was introduced for the fans and nothing else.

That's how I see it because unless someone comes up with a killer theory, the flash-sideways affected nothing. The story was entirely meaningless unless you just want to give it meaning through symbolism.