*** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[tsalbysp]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

It is obvious that maybe Abrams had teh best vision for the show, because after he left the path changed considerably.

JJ Abrams was on the show for a culmination of two episodes: Pilot 1 & 2. What you saw throughout these six years was mostly from Damon, Carlton, and the various writers in the writing room. JJ Abrams may have been a part of the show, and may have had some good ideas, but to say he had the best vision for the show is a slap in the face to Darlton and the writers who actually worked on the show for the past six years.

[rsnomar05]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

So can anyone confirm for me that Seasons 1 & 2 were by JJ Abrams, Season 3 by a different writer (unknown to me), and Seasons 4-6 by Cuse/Lindelof?

No.

The series was originally supposed to be a cross between Lord of the Flies, Castaway, and Survivor, but ABC wasn't satisfied with the pilot script. They approached Abrams, and he and Lindelof changed the concept and created the show as we know it today, pitching a show with supernatural elements and presenting a book that they called "The Bible" to ABC, a book that contained an outline for a 5/6 season show that contained future storylines, mysteries and their answers.

Seasons 1 and 2 were Lindelof and Abrams, with Abrams taking a reduced role in season 2.

Seasons 3-6 were Lindelof and Cuse with Abrams still overseeing the show but in more of an advisory role, no longer writing for the show.

[moose1619]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

JJ Abrams was on the show for a culmination of two episodes: Pilot 1 & 2. What you saw throughout these six years was mostly from Damon, Carlton, and the various writers in the writing room. JJ Abrams may have been a part of the show, and may have had some good ideas, but to say he had the best vision for the show is a slap in the face to Darlton and the writers who actually worked on the show for the past six years.

Yes he directed pilot 1 and 2, but he was also involved throughout season 1 and 2, after season 3 he dropped out. There is an obvious path change in direction of show, I am just trying to pinpoint a shift that could have happened.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

You are correct, I did some research Jeffrey Lieber is the guys name and he had the original idea of the Pilot. It is obvious that maybe Abrams had the best vision for the show, because after he left the path changed considerably.

It's been said repeatedly that Abrams and Lindelof plotted out the main points of the series from the beginning. Abrams left because he trusted that Lindelof could carry out that story and he wanted to focus on filmmaking.

Lindelof then hired Cuse because of their Nash Bridges relationship. Cuse was filled in on the story created by Lindelof and Abrams and they went to work.

Lindeloff also explained once that though they knew how the show would end, they didn't even start planning a lot of the stuff out until they wrote in Locke discovering the hatch.

Once the hatch was discovered, he sat down and began to dissect the mystery of the hatch, why it was there, how it got there, and the rest of the story grew from there.

When you look at the main plot points of the series, I think it's very obvious that an ending was always planned. The ending was: The Smoke Monster is defeated and a replacement is chosen.

Obviously that is extremely vague, but I think that ending was planned from the get-go. How they got there, a whole other story.

[tsalbysp]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

No.

The series was originally supposed to be a cross between Lord of the Flies, Castaway, and Survivor, but ABC wasn't satisfied with the pilot script. They approached Abrams, and he and Lindelof changed the concept and created the show as we know it today, pitching a show with supernatural elements and presenting a book that they called "The Bible" to ABC, a book that contained an outline for a 5/6 season show that contained future storylines, mysteries and their answers.

Seasons 1 and 2 were Lindelof and Abrams, with Abrams taking a reduced role in season 2.

Seasons 3-6 were Lindelof and Cuse with Abrams still overseeing the show but in more of an advisory role, no longer writing for the show.

Yes he directed pilot 1 and 2, but he was also involved throughout season 1 and 2, after season 3 he dropped out. There is an obvious path change in direction of show, I am just trying to pinpoint a shift that could have happened.

According Damon himself, Abrams bolted after the Pilot. Abrams dumped the series into Damon's lap, who had never ran a show before, so Damon brought in Carlton Cuse (who he had worked with on Nash Bridges, and became friends with) to help him along.

This show was Darlton's project, not Abrams. Abrams was a key part in the beginning, but when he left, the show became Damon's. Then Damon brought in Carlton, and the show became both of theirs.

Damon on Abrams:

His contribution [on the Finale] will be what is has been the last five years or so -- as an incredible supportive fan, which is pretty cool for us.

Abrams may have helped flesh out the Pilot and some future storylines, but to say he was an integral part throughout the entire series is down right facetious.

[ehh]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

When you look at the main plot points of the series, I think it's very obvious that an ending was always planned. The ending was: The Smoke Monster is defeated and a replacement is chosen.

Obviously that is extremely vague, but I think that ending was planned from the get-go. How they got there, a whole other story.

Yup, and a little further, the main character saved the Island, the world and everyone trying to leave the island while sacrificing his own life. The main plot points remain very good IMO. Things swayed SO much though in the final three seasons.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Yup, and a little further, the main character saved the Island, the world and everyone trying to leave the island while sacrificing his own life. The main plot points remain very good IMO. Things swayed SO much though in the final three seasons.

Yes, those are main points too. I'm not sure how I forgot to mention that stuff, ha.

But, I do think (and I feel this is what you're also saying) that because they knew the end, they were writing to reach that point rather than letting the characters tell them how to get to that point. Probably confusing, but it's how I see it.

For example: Matthew Fox says he always knew the ending of the show would be him dying and close up of his eye closing. I thought I read he was told that during Season 5 or something, but now I'm reading people saying he knew from the beginning of the series. I'm pretty sure it was Season 5.

Anyway, when you say that and you haven't even written the episodes leading up to it, you get Jack climbing out of a cave that Desmond couldn't climb out of and then collapsing in the spot he started. I loved the idea behind it: finish where you started, but it was a bit forced, no? I think it was. I'm not upset over it or anything, but I see it as the writers doing all they can to finish how they wanted to without considering the character motivation fully.

The point is: it's symbolic for the audience to see Jack die where he started on the Island, but for Jack, was there a real point? He had already been shown as relieved and accepting of his decision to die in the cave. There was no added benefit for him to leave it and die in a spot in the jungle. It was audience motivated not character motivated and that's a result of writing to a point that you want rather than a point the characters wanted.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

It's been said repeatedly that Abrams and Lindelof plotted out the main points of the series from the beginning. Abrams left because he trusted that Lindelof could carry out that story and he wanted to focus on filmmaking.

Lindelof then hired Cuse because of their Nash Bridges relationship. Cuse was filled in on the story created by Lindelof and Abrams and they went to work.

Lindeloff also explained once that though they knew how the show would end, they didn't even start planning a lot of the stuff out until they wrote in Locke discovering the hatch.

Once the hatch was discovered, he sat down and began to dissect the mystery of the hatch, why it was there, how it got there, and the rest of the story grew from there.

When you look at the main plot points of the series, I think it's very obvious that an ending was always planned. The ending was: The Smoke Monster is defeated and a replacement is chosen.

Obviously that is extremely vague, but I think that ending was planned from the get-go. How they got there, a whole other story.

Good post. Exactly what seemed to happen.

[FlyingFinn]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Why does everyone keep calling it a flash sideways. It wasn't side ways by any stretch of the word. They were all already dead at the point that the "flash" was taking place. The first episode of season 6 showed a flash of Jack with the cut on his neck from his fight with Locke in the season finale. Everything in the flashes this season were all in some sort of after life with their lost souls trying to find peace.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Because people always thought it was a flash sideways. They know differently now, but they just call it that so we know what we are talking about.

I think the crash at the end of the credits was a bad idea. Seemed to cause more theories than to be taken at face value.

Most are saying that they were dead when the plane crashed and none of it ever happened despite being led down the rabbit hole while hand-held.

[FlyingFinn]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Anyway, when you say that and you haven't even written the episodes leading up to it, you get Jack climbing out of a cave that Desmond couldn't climb out of and then collapsing in the spot he started. I loved the idea behind it: finish where you started, but it was a bit forced, no? I think it was. I'm not upset over it or anything, but I see it as the writers doing all they can to finish how they wanted to without considering the character motivation fully.

The point is: it's symbolic for the audience to see Jack die where he started on the Island, but for Jack, was there a real point? He had already been shown as relieved and accepting of his decision to die in the cave. There was no added benefit for him to leave it and die in a spot in the jungle. It was audience motivated not character motivated and that's a result of writing to a point that you want rather than a point the characters wanted.

He didn't climb out of the cave, he awoke outside the cave lying by the water just like Jacob's brother did after he was thrown into the light. He proceeded to stumble into the bamboo forest but didn't make it very far because he bled out.

[ty5oke]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Why after Juliet sets off the Nuke does she come back and have the same conversation about getting coffee with Sawyer as she does in the "flash-sideways". She also tells them "it worked". I can't figure out how that would change season 6's meaning.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Why does everyone keep calling it a flash sideways.

It's what the producers called it.

He didn't climb out of the cave, he awoke outside the cave lying by the water just like Jacob's brother did after he was thrown into the light. He proceeded to stumble into the bamboo forest but didn't make it very far because he bled out.

Hmm, ok very good point.

I was so ready for Jack to be white smoke and a good friend of Hurley on the Island.

[DrJones]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

1 thing that i cant shake is what is the deal with a few "alternate reality" things: was Jacks kid just there to trick us? What is the deal with the "baby" in the church. Obviously its supposed to be AAron, but it makes no sense as Aaron should have been a grown man.

idk man, DR JONES made some solid points about the "cork" being like the bottle,etc which really had me swinging towards liking the finale, I will quote his post.

Okay, here's how I read the flash-sideways. It was the producers' "long con" of Season 6: we were meant to wonder if this alternate reality was the result of Jughead going off, or possibly of the MiB escaping the Island. Turns out it was neither; the alternate reality was Purgatory, for lack of a better word. Whether you feel that it was a clever, earned plot twist or a cheat is up to you.

IMO it was Purgatory, not just for Jack, as some are suggesting, but for all of the Losties. After they died in the real (Island) world, both before and after Jack's death on the Island, they started their lives anew in Purgatory, where through different choices and different circumstances (some subtle, some not), they resolved the issues that they had in their former, "real" lives. Part of that was the presence of Jack's son; it resolved his father issues.

Although the Lostie characters died at different times (Hurley might've lived thousands of years as the protector of the Island), they were "reborn" within Purgatory at whatever time they were born in their real lives. They were brought together in the real world by the Oceanic 815 crash. When the Oceanic 815 flight occurred in 2004 Purgatory (the sunken island in the Season 6 premiere was to show us that in their Purgatory lives, they could live free of Jacob and the Island's influence), it was significant. Because the Oceanic 815 flight was the most meaningful event of their real lives, when it occurred in Purgatory, that was where the Losties began to see and remember evidence (Jack's neck cut, etc.) of their former lives.

I'm guessing that none of the Losties within Purgatory had any deja vu feelings before Oceanic 815. Desmond's consciousness, because of when he blew up the Swan station in Season 2, could travel through time, space, and apparently, death itself. His simultaneous awareness of Island reality and Purgatory expedited the process of the other Losties becoming aware. In the Season 6 premiere, as Juliet was on the thin line between life and death, she had a brief flash of her existence in Purgatory. When she told Sawyer, "It worked," she probably thought Jughead was responsible; it wasn't.

Why was Aaron a baby? Because it was 2004 in Purgatory. The dead don't enter Purgatory in the state in which they die (ie, Aaron as an old man), they enter it as they entered the real world. All of the Losties were "born" in Purgatory and re-lived their lives, making different decisions along the way. Remembering and coming to grips with their past lives is the final step before entering "Heaven" or whatever. The reason Ben doesn't go in the church is the same reason Michael, Eko, or Ana-Lucia aren't there: they have a lot more to answer for (ie, murder, greater sins, etc.) than the other Losties. Richard isn't there because he was born in the 19th century, Jacob and the MiB aren't there because they were born thousands of years ago; they already re-lived their lives and found resolution in Purgatory long before the events we saw in the flash-sideways.

The only things about this theory that doesn't fit is why Helen (Peg Bundy) wasn't with Locke in the church, and why Ben was "woken up" by Desmond in Purgatory, as he wasn't "leaving" with the rest of the Losties. The real answer, of course, is that Michael Emerson is one of the show's stars, and couldn't exactly be left out or a secondary player in the storyline. Heh. I suppose it could be rationalized that he was made "aware" so that he could gain forgiveness from Locke, which was necessary for Ben's eventual redemption somewhere down the line.

EDIT: Someone above pointed out Sayid moving on, and that's an excellent point. I guess the best (though still flimsy) explanation is that he already went a ways towards redeeming himself before dying in the real world by refusing to kill Desmond and by sacrificing his life for his friends.

[DrJones]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

As far as people's frustration goes, I completely understand, I just don't feel the same way. I'm a skeptic by nature, so I suspected we wouldn't get all the answers we wanted, nor would all the answers we did receive be satisfactory. I rolled with it because I enjoyed the whole journey. The mysteries themselves were more interesting to me than the answers. I wish more of them had been solved, but I don't feel like it invalidates the rest of the series.

Twin Peaks, The X-Files, BSG didn't provide satisfactory answers to its mysteries, but they're still among my all-time favourites. The Stand is one of my favourite books, yet there's no question that the climax is cheap. I enjoyed thinking about LOST, reading about it, debating about it, and formed an emotional attachment to the characters. I'm satisfied and don't feel cheated at all. But that's just me. Nobody is "wrong" for thinking otherwise.