Westworld (HBO)

[Boltman]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Me too.
So much goodness, I feel like I missed a lot.
So many answers but now I think I have more questions.


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I watched it a second time this morning and I'm thoroughly confused. I get the big reveal but that isn't what's confusing to me.

The confusing stuff to me is all the extracurricular activity going on with the random hosts running about.

Spoiler tagging things in tapatalk doesn't always go well for me so I'm scared to even try only to piss someone off if it doesn't tag correctly. I have a few questions about certain scenes.

[Money99]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

I watched it a second time this morning and I'm thoroughly confused. I get the big reveal but that isn't what's confusing to me.

The confusing stuff to me is all the extracurricular activity going on with the random hosts running about.

Spoiler tagging things in tapatalk doesn't always go well for me so I'm scared to even try only to piss someone off if it doesn't tag correctly. I have a few questions about certain scenes.

Totally agree.

Spoiler

I think it was spoken enough on these forums that many weren't shocked to find out Bernard is/was Arnold.

I think it's safe to assume there are at least 3 timelines at work here:
-35 years ago when Arnold is alive - where Bernarldo is chatting with Dolores in the basement of the church while wearing the Blue Dress.
- 30 years ago when William is still Opie Cunningham and in love with Dolores
- present - Bernard is Arnold 2.0, William is MiB, etc.

Not sure if these are more questions I have, or just muddled ramblings, but here goes:
- the scene where Bluedress Dolores finds the church and goes to the basement, a number of Hosts are seen glitching (or perhaps speaking in tongues).
Arnold seems pleased that Dolores found him.
Is the Maze then some kind of test to see which Hosts attain consciousness and are able to maneuver the maze to find him? Meaning they are the exceptional machines necessary for a grand scheme?
Perhaps the hosts glitching in the church were able to make it that far, but couldn't comprehend how to get any further?
- still confused about the whole Wyatt Ghost Nation thingy. Are those weirdo Hosts which wear animal heads and have tied-up the MiB still part of the park? Is this still part of Ford's narrative?
In a scene from two weeks ago, we see a diagram showing the character with a Bull's head in the background on Ford's wall. This made me believe that this side-show is still part of the Park.
- What is the Maze? If Ford knows about it, why doesn't he shut it down?
- What significance does the Dancing Town have?
- Is Elaine(?) still alive? (The foul-mouthed brunnette who appears to have been strangled by Bernard).
I'm not 100% convinced he killed her. Probably way off on that.
- And is it a coincidence that all these Hosts are glitching at the same time?
- Is Arnold still alive somehow in the Matrix?
- What's up with Teddy? Is he remembering two separate incidents, or is it really just one massacre he was responsible for, but his Host mind is trying to alter it so he can cope with what he's done?

I'm also guessing William murders his bro-in-law and blames it on the hosts. Perhaps this is the 'Incident' they keep referring to in the present?
William kills his bro-in-law but still marries his sister which means he now has a stake in the Park - which allows him to visit over and over and search for the Maze/truth of it all?

I feel like all the Big Reveals they've uncovered the last two weeks weren't all that big as CMH and so many others figured it out earlier.
It's the extra stuff I'm confused about.

Can't wait for the season finale!

[Boltman]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

No kidding, you completely nailed all my questions almost word for word. Many thanks, great thoughts/questions.

[ODogg]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

I hope this show isn't like Lost and poses more and more questions and very few answers. It seems each week I get more and more confused, LOL

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

I hope this show isn't like Lost and poses more and more questions and very few answers. It seems each week I get more and more confused, LOL

They just answered one of the biggest mysteries of the season.

If this was Lost, we'd be waiting till Season 3

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Comments inside spoiler in bold red.

Spoiler

Is the Maze then some kind of test to see which Hosts attain consciousness and are able to maneuver the maze to find him?

I bet we find out more about this in episode 10 now that MiB / William (it's William) is with Dolores and so much closer to the end of the game.

Perhaps the hosts glitching in the church were able to make it that far, but couldn't comprehend how to get any further?

I don't know. I think we simply saw the result of Arnold's work. Ford believes that the hosts should be perfect creatures free of life's issues. Arnold wanted the hosts to be sentient beings that feel emotion.

The hosts in the church were going through their bicameral mind question - who is speaking to me? They couldn't comprehend it. So they went to God.

Saw a nice allegory for Ford and Arnold. Both were playing God. Ford wanted Angels. Arnold wanted Humans.

- still confused about the whole Wyatt Ghost Nation thingy. Are those weirdo Hosts which wear animal heads and have tied-up the MiB still part of the park? Is this still part of Ford's narrative?

It's a narrative. But I do think there's more to it than we know right now.

- What is the Maze? If Ford knows about it, why doesn't he shut it down?

We will know in the finale.

- What significance does the Dancing Town have?

It's where everything started. It's also where the massacre occurred. More on this below.

- Is Elaine(?) still alive? (The foul-mouthed brunnette who appears to have been strangled by Bernard).
I'm not 100% convinced he killed her. Probably way off on that.

I'm right there with you. My belief is Bernard killing her was in the past and she's been a host. I don't know what's going on with Stubbs finding the signal just yet but with so many time frames, it's hard to pinpoint when things are happening.

- And is it a coincidence that all these Hosts are glitching at the same time?

Okay, so here goes. One of two things is happening, right?
Either Ford is aware that hosts are glitching or he is not.
In other words, he either knows that Maeve turned into Ford.0 or everything we are watching is showing us how much control he has so we understand how little there really is.

Let's consider the obvious thing because the show has done a good enough job explaining stuff, even going so far as having Maeve tell Hector why she doesn't simply control him into following her (I thought that was a clever way for the writers to say, "yes yes, we get it, she has this power and we're ignoring it for dramatic purpose")

Maeve is the plot hole in all this. Or maybe she isn't. How is it that a park where Ford knows EVERYTHING that happens somehow has two lab suits doing whatever they have to do for a rogue host? Ford is always prepared when Bernard has questions but somehow doesn't know Maeve does?

Wouldn't logic dictate that Ford knows exactly what's happening with Maeve and is allowing it?

Ford continues to spill his goal to us. He says it every darn episode. "You see, Bernard. I have this new narrative to concern myself with." (Anthony Hopkins is amazing by the way).

What if the new narrative is Maeve starting a host rebellion? What if their escape is part of the plan?

I guess we don't really know right now but I suspect we will learn at the end of the finale what Ford's new narrative is exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been behind it all (Maeve, Dolores, Wyatt, even MiB).

This is super crazy but there's a growing number of theorists that suspect the new narrative is Future World where the hosts are sentient. The story will change from a good ol' fashioned western to a wondrous science-fiction. It's a wild shot in the dark that would take some fantastic twists to pull off, but why not?

I personally think we are watching the prelude of the series. This is all just foundation for the real story. Ford has bigger plans and no one to talk to about them. You see there's no one left that remembers. Except for Dolores.


- Is Arnold still alive somehow in the Matrix?

Nah, I'm convinced Arnold is dead. He's in the past. All that remains is his code.

What I do think is that Ford is getting closer to understanding the code (or understands it now). And that final scene with Bernard was him finally letting go.

- What's up with Teddy? Is he remembering two separate incidents, or is it really just one massacre he was responsible for, but his Host mind is trying to alter it so he can cope with what he's done?

Teddy didn't do the leading. Wyatt did. But Teddy was there alongside Wyatt doing the killing. Remember he says he was controlled by a host the same way Maeve is controlling them now.

Teddy is confused because he's remembering the past and mixing it with the story Ford gave him. Because all backstories have some truth in them.

Also Wyatt was Dolores. She's been to the town. She remembers herself holding the gun.

She's the reason certain hosts cannot use a gun or weapon anymore.

She killed Arnold, Ford's closest friend.

"Are we old friends?"
"I wouldn't say friends, Dolores. No, I wouldn't say that at all."

Because she killed his friend. She was special to Arnold and she was likely the first to gain sentience and go nuts. Ford knows this.

She teamed up with Teddy to kill off everyone. This is why MiB mentions in the early episodes, "I always find it cruel how they pair you up." He's commenting on the past he's now aware of and how the two responsible are lovers in their new narrative.

I'm also guessing William murders his bro-in-law and blames it on the hosts. Perhaps this is the 'Incident' they keep referring to in the present?
William kills his bro-in-law but still marries his sister which means he now has a stake in the Park - which allows him to visit over and over and search for the Maze/truth of it all?

William can visit because he's a board member. He's a board member because he takes over the company when Logan dies. Yes, Logan dies. I think we can suspect that.

Also Dolores / Wyatt or Teddy kill Logan.

There's a moment when Teddy says they killed the general.

And guess whose "a major, or a general, or ****ing something..."

I also can't wait for the season finale!

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

That was an amazing episode. This show just keeps getting better episode after episode.

Can't wait until next week...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[jake44np]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

I am not going to lie, I was totally wrong about this show.
The last couple episodes have been amazing!
I only continued watching this show because I figured I had watched the first 6 or so I might as well finish this season.
Man I am glad I did because like I said I have loved the last couple of episodes.

[daflyboys]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

One thing (well probably not just one thing) that I'm lost on is.....

Spoiler

Why does Dolores viewpoint change between 2 realities. For example, we saw her get stabbed by the corporate scumbag dude, but later when she's escaped, she shows no signs of injury and by design should have "died". What am I missing?

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

One thing (well probably not just one thing) that I'm lost on is.....

Spoiler

Why does Dolores viewpoint change between 2 realities. For example, we saw her get stabbed by the corporate scumbag dude, but later when she's escaped, she shows no signs of injury and by design should have "died". What am I missing?

Spoiler

The general thought is there are multiple time frames.

We are seeing events from 34, 30 years ago and now.

The 34 is when the park was being built, when the massacre occurred.

The now is MiB finding the Maze.

The 30 is her traveling with William.

This has led some to suspect that William is MiB.

So when she was stabbed my Logan would have been decades ago. And when you see her at the church she's fully healed.

Dolores is remembering her past. That's why she went down to the lower level and thought she might see Arnold again but he reminds her that he's dead because she killed him. It's why she's having flashbacks of the massacre.

She's an unreliable narrator because she's mixing her current reality with the past and has been doing so all season.

[Quint75]

Westworld (HBO)

A lot of things don't make logical sense as far as the park goes, IMO. For example, we know the hosts are not supposed to be able to kill or seriously injure the guests. But in many cases, only blind luck kept that from happening. For example,

Spoiler

the man in black was set up to be hung in the last episode. Only by luck was he able to get a hold of a knife a cut the rope before he died. He also had his head bashed against a rock to knock him unconscious. How fortunate he didn't suffer a serious injury like a brain hemorrhage. William's douchy brother in law to be had his face slashed by Delores. Maybe he's not okay having a permanent scar or consider how fortunate he was that he didn't slip and take that slash in the throat. And I realize that Delores is glitching, but what about when the same guy was abandoned by William and Delores and got the crapped kicked out of him by that mob? Awful lucky he didn't have a rib broken and maybe puncture a lung.

I really enjoy the show. I just think that the logic is often abandoned in favor of telling a good story. Am I alone in this?

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

A lot of things don't make logical sense as far as the park goes, IMO. For example, we know the hosts are not supposed to be able to kill or seriously injure the guests. But in many cases, only blind luck kept that from happening. For example,

Spoiler

the man in black was set up to be hung in the last episode. Only by luck was he able to get a hold of a knife a cut the rope before he died. He also had his head bashed against a rock to knock him unconscious. How fortunate he didn't suffer a serious injury like a brain hemorrhage. William's douchy brother in law to be had his face slashed by Delores. Maybe he's not okay having a permanent scar or consider how fortunate he was that he didn't slip and take that slash in the throat. And I realize that Delores is glitching, but what about when the same guy was abandoned by William and Delores and got the crapped kicked out of him by that mob? Awful lucky he didn't have a rib broken and maybe puncture a lung.

I really enjoy the show. I just think that the logic is often abandoned in favor of telling a good story. Am I alone in this?

It's explained early on when William asks the host if they can hurt people. She tells him, you choose how much you can take.

Logan is exactly the type to want to get into a fight. He loved it. He even says so, in his own words, to William in the previous episode.

The others are explained by hosts that are, as you said, glitching.

Dolores hurt a fly in the first episode. She's past not hurting things.

Angela, I suspect, is also past it. She's the only host that is acutely aware that Ted has a dark past and seems to know what actually happened 34 years ago. She's trying to awaken him the same way Maeve is awakening others.

The horse situation is weird but we can only speculate what would have happened to MiB. I admit this one is a stretch.

[mjavon]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

One thing I am confused about as well are the guns. In the first episode, and again in a scene with Logan in another episode, we saw hosts shooting a human, and it did them no harm (other than perhaps a pinch of pain, kt was mentioned that guests mist face some consequence for immersive quality). And in several other instances, we see hosts who are not able to pull the trigger.

The question this poses to me is, why in the hell does it matter that they can't pull the trigger then? If Teddy really was able to pull the trigger with a gun to MiB's head, wouldn't it not kill him anyway? Why code some hosts to not be able to pull the trigger of the guns can't hurt people anyways?

[RockinDaMike]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

The whole thing of William being MIB is fantastic. He ends up buying half the company just to see if Delores become sentient.

That's love right? To spend 30 years of proving it.

Maybe thats the reason MIB is wanting to find the maze is for Delores. To free her.

Now if Logan ends up being the MIB.....

[daflyboys]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

You guys are referring to the original MIB? The host?