ESPN Cleaning House

[Jr.]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

The local sports station played Golic's remarks about the news this morning.. it was interesting.

Basically said it's not his story to tell because it wasn't his decision to end the show. I guess him and Greenberg don't have a very good relationship and Greenberg has tried to split from Golic for a bit now.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

The local sports station played Golic's remarks about the news this morning.. it was interesting.



Basically said it's not his story to tell because it wasn't his decision to end the show. I guess him and Greenberg don't have a very good relationship and Greenberg has tried to split from Golic for a bit now.

His son also made some comments about it on Twitter too if you didn't check those out.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/mike-golic-son-rips-espn-handling-mike-mike-article-1.3174058

[Jr.]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

His son also made some comments about it on Twitter too if you didn't check those out.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...icle-1.3174058

I forgot they mentioned that, too. Though they made it sound like it was Mike Jr tweeting it, not a different son.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

I guess him and Greenberg don't have a very good relationship and Greenberg has tried to split from Golic for a bit now.

Really? I would've never have guessed that.

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[Jr.]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

Really? I would've never have guessed that.

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That's what they guys on sports radio out here were saying. Seems like it's a pretty known thing within the industry. First I've heard of it

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

There's plenty of old school guys left, I don't mind that, and I like a medley of both. I still like some traditional stats, but I embrace some of the saber metrics too. I like a balance. I don't think RBI'S and Wins are completely meaningless. I just think its flawed. As are many saber metrics.

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The problem with "old school" guys is they don't promote balance, they promote stagnation. It's more indicative of people wanting to keep baseball in the past. Balance would be given by someone who knows both sides, not someone who knows one and refuses to learn the other. I hate that baseball has this need to keep **** old school, fighting this is gonna be the death of me. This argument is made all the more difficult by the fact that traditional stats are included in sabermetrics, so it's not like one side knows half the information and the other side knows the other half. It's one side with the full puzzle, and the other side with half the puzzle trying to say that they've got the picture right. It doesn't make sense.

[Jr.]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

The problem with "old school" guys is they don't promote balance, they promote stagnation. It's more indicative of people wanting to keep baseball in the past. Balance would be given by someone who knows both sides, not someone who knows one and refuses to learn the other. I hate that baseball has this need to keep **** old school, fighting this is gonna be the death of me. This argument is made all the more difficult by the fact that traditional stats are included in sabermetrics, so it's not like one side knows half the information and the other side knows the other half. It's one side with the full puzzle, and the other side with half the puzzle trying to say that they've got the picture right. It doesn't make sense.

The funny thing about this is people in baseball aren't keeping it "old school". The game has advanced so much in the last 8-10 years in how it's viewed and taught.

It's just the old players that are now working in baseball media that don't want to adjust and think their era/style was the best.

[jake44np]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

That's what they guys on sports radio out here were saying. Seems like it's a pretty known thing within the industry. First I've heard of it

Yeah I am not buying that I all. I have read many times how well they get along. I think that is why Golic is upset, he doesn't want it to end.
I went to a dinner at ND a few years ago that Golic was at. He said he considered Greenberg one of his closest friends.

Greenberg just said this below recenty.

“I think that has been extremely beneficial for us,” he said at the time. “Our relationship is excellent. We have literally never had a fight. We have never had a serious disagreement off the air … and I think that is largely because we haven’t let a lot of that peripheral stuff get in the middle of it.

“You hear about partnerships where people really dislike each other,” he added later. “And having done this for 15 years now, I really don’t understand how they do that. I really don’t.”

So again I am not buying that they don't like each other.

[mgoblue]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

Yeah I am not buying that I all. I have read many times how well they get along. I think that is why Golic is upset, he doesn't want it to end.
I went to a dinner at ND a few years ago that Golic was at. He said he considered Greenberg one of his closest friends.

Greenberg just said this below recenty.

“I think that has been extremely beneficial for us,” he said at the time. “Our relationship is excellent. We have literally never had a fight. We have never had a serious disagreement off the air … and I think that is largely because we haven’t let a lot of that peripheral stuff get in the middle of it.

“You hear about partnerships where people really dislike each other,” he added later. “And having done this for 15 years now, I really don’t understand how they do that. I really don’t.”

So again I am not buying that they don't like each other.

I think it's less they don't like each other and more that Golic wanted to keep it going and Greenberg wanted something more. Golic's probably hurt cause he lost out a bit.

[jake44np]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

I think it's less they don't like each other and more that Golic wanted to keep it going and Greenberg wanted something more. Golic's probably hurt cause he lost out a bit.

I would totally agree with that.
I think Greenberg wants to more on to something else and that is why this is happening. Its not that they don't get along.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

The problem with "old school" guys is they don't promote balance, they promote stagnation. It's more indicative of people wanting to keep baseball in the past. Balance would be given by someone who knows both sides, not someone who knows one and refuses to learn the other. I hate that baseball has this need to keep **** old school, fighting this is gonna be the death of me. This argument is made all the more difficult by the fact that traditional stats are included in sabermetrics, so it's not like one side knows half the information and the other side knows the other half. It's one side with the full puzzle, and the other side with half the puzzle trying to say that they've got the picture right. It doesn't make sense.

Yea that's the annoying part. You have the old school guys that spit on sabermetrics. But you have those in the sabermetric community that act like its the law of the land, and if you don't embrace all of it your ignorant.

I just like a balance. But the more stats the better in my eyes.



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[dubcity]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

I'll say this, as a viewer, when it comes to analysis and/or actual color commentary, I will take an ex-player who breaks things down in a simple manner over a guy like Nate Silver telling me that a guy in a certain situation is 2/13 lifetime with a 2-2 count when facing a pitcher who throws cut fastballs after the 3rd inning. When people use advanced stats as a predictor (implied or not) of future outcomes they lose me. It creates an unnecessary and false narrative. The all-important casual fans do not care about WAR and BABIP. So I wouldn't fault ESPN (or anyone) for hiring guys who don't focus on that stuff.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

It cracks me up when Michael Kay talks about War or Vorp. He has absolutely no clue what it is.

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[SPTO]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

Despite all the crap on ESPN sometimes they do some things right. I happened to watch an interview they did with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. It was a bit vacuous but it was nice that they talked to him about his new book and relationship with John Wooden. I also saw the flip side to the interview format seeing Big Papi calling everyone on earth his "boy" on First Take. It was pretty cringeworthy hearing him talk about the Boston incident with Adam Jones.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: ESPN Cleaning House

I'll say this, as a viewer, when it comes to analysis and/or actual color commentary, I will take an ex-player who breaks things down in a simple manner over a guy like Nate Silver telling me that a guy in a certain situation is 2/13 lifetime with a 2-2 count when facing a pitcher who throws cut fastballs after the 3rd inning. When people use advanced stats as a predictor (implied or not) of future outcomes they lose me. It creates an unnecessary and false narrative. The all-important casual fans do not care about WAR and BABIP. So I wouldn't fault ESPN (or anyone) for hiring guys who don't focus on that stuff.

There's a wide spectrum of intelligence among ex-players to explore before you have to settle on Joe Morgan. I kinda see what you mean with the not using stats as predictors but then I kinda don't. It's not an argument against advanced stats as much as against prediction. People shouldn't use any stat to believe they've got it all figured out, but if a hitter comes to the plate with the bases loaded and 2 outs in the ninth, I'd rather someone's prediction be based on his WRC+ against that pitcher given a big enough sample size than his RBI's. The false narrative you fight against will exist either way, fighting against advanced stats in addition to that is just keeping the narrative even less informed. I agree though that we don't want to hear random numbers all throughout the broadcast.

I'm at the point where I'm ready to call the casual baseball fan a myth lol. What does it even mean? I don't feel like anyone flipping through channels seeing baseball is going to stop unless they love it, WS ratings are big regionally but not massive nationally. I'm worried they're catering to a ghost.

Yea that's the annoying part. You have the old school guys that spit on sabermetrics. But you have those in the sabermetric community that act like its the law of the land, and if you don't embrace all of it your ignorant.

I just like a balance. But the more stats the better in my eyes.

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I think one of the issues the argument can get so heated is become both sides feel like they're protecting baseball. The reality is that all stats are meaningless, except in very specific contexts. Like Dub said, prediction is difficult. But that's what everyone wants to do. Stats like wins and RBI's are in no way useful in predicting future success. Nerds went into the lab to come up with new numbers to help us do what we've always wanted to, and people are upset lol.

It's like we just discovered multiplication. You're trying to tell people bruh we can just do 2 * 5. And they're like nah dude, 2+2+2+2+2...