Terrorism in Orlando

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

Awful, no other words will do. Prayers for the survivors and the families of the dead.

[ryan36]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

Well, I'm worried this is gonna get the copycats out during Pride month.

I'm probably the only one on this board who can say "it could've been me," because it could have. It's scary, gay bars have generally always been the place people go to get away from all the violence, paranoia, etc... no longer, I guess.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

I wouldn't say it's a mistake either BUT I also don't think the FBI's hands should be tied the way it has been here. Apparently this guy was on terror watchlists. Obviously, they can't go and round him up and throw him in some detention center BUT there is absolutely NO WAY he should've been able to buy an assault rifle and gun down all those people. In fact, there was a law that was proposed that would specifically prohibit those on terror lists from buying firearms of any kind.

You wanna guess what happened to said law? Yep, the GOP blocked it and screamed "2ND AMMENDMENT! 2ND AMMENDMENT!". If anything, i'm putting some of the onus on the lawmakers that are actively making the job of the FBI and intelligence agencies a lot harder than it need be.

BTW this guy doesn't feel like an actual ISIS fighter. ISIS attacks have been very public but never attached to any kind of political agenda (get rid of gay people) though he definitely is strongly in their mindset. I know that ISIS has claimed responsibility but i feel like that's more them being opportunistic. The FBI and other intelligence services have said there's no direct link but they also said it'll take some time to fully suss it out. I wouldn't be surprised if he's an ISIS fighter but a part of me doesn't believe he is. Unfortunately ISIS has muddied the waters and sowed paranoia with their claim of responsibility.


(i'm sorry for the political nature of this post. Please delete if you feel like it)

If I remember right, there was no set "criteria" agreed upon as to what would make someone be put on the terror list or something along that line.
You're also expecting the government to be 100% accurate with who they deem should be on a terror list.
Someone is a friend of someone on social media that FBI found ties to terrorists so now they can deem the friend to be on watch list simply by association... as an example.
In essence if it was passed anyone the FBI etc.. wanted on terror list would have their rights taken away. Some rightfully so and some not so much.
Slippery slope there.

There needs to be more gun laws and I'm all for that but they have to be done right and not just a quick , feel good move.

[LambertandHam]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

Went to get pizza for dinner, drove past the FBI vehicles and FBI truck/RV on the connecting street near me searching the shooters home. Never thought I'd see/hear about someone like this locally. It's scary to think about.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

Well, I'm worried this is gonna get the copycats out during Pride month.

I'm probably the only one on this board who can say "it could've been me," because it could have. It's scary, gay bars have generally always been the place people go to get away from all the violence, paranoia, etc... no longer, I guess.

Well, there was a couple of incidents in Seattle involving Islamists and gay people/gay bars in recent years. Some guy killed two gay guys for being gay (and two other people as well) before and there was another guy in Seattle who wanted to set fire to a gay club on New Years Eve. Didn't get much attention though.

And also, someone was arrested in LA for planning to attack the pride parade here today. Caught with materials and everything. Not exactly a "copycat." Probably a coordinated thing somehow. We'll see what happens.

[Knight165]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

I wouldn't say it's a mistake either BUT I also don't think the FBI's hands should be tied the way it has been here. Apparently this guy was on terror watchlists. Obviously, they can't go and round him up and throw him in some detention center BUT there is absolutely NO WAY he should've been able to buy an assault rifle and gun down all those people. In fact, there was a law that was proposed that would specifically prohibit those on terror lists from buying firearms of any kind.

You wanna guess what happened to said law? Yep, the GOP blocked it and screamed "2ND AMMENDMENT! 2ND AMMENDMENT!". If anything, i'm putting some of the onus on the lawmakers that are actively making the job of the FBI and intelligence agencies a lot harder than it need be.

BTW this guy doesn't feel like an actual ISIS fighter. ISIS attacks have been very public but never attached to any kind of political agenda (get rid of gay people) though he definitely is strongly in their mindset. I know that ISIS has claimed responsibility but i feel like that's more them being opportunistic. The FBI and other intelligence services have said there's no direct link but they also said it'll take some time to fully suss it out. I wouldn't be surprised if he's an ISIS fighter but a part of me doesn't believe he is. Unfortunately ISIS has muddied the waters and sowed paranoia with their claim of responsibility.


(i'm sorry for the political nature of this post. Please delete if you feel like it)

SPTO;

Two things.
I disagree with the ISIS aspect making it muddy. I think it actually made it pretty clear. He said he was doing it in the name of ISIS. They said they did it.
You don't have to put in an application and be accepted into ISIS.
If you're willing to kill in the name of them and it involves anyone from the West....it's good enough for them.

On the watch list/2nd amendment issue.
You're making it seem as if the G.O.P. opposes keeping terrorists or any other whack job from being able to obtain weapons legally.(which ...let's be honest....isn't really the issue....they will get them by nefarious means anyway.....which might be worse as the selection on the black market would be FAR more wide and varied(want a bazooka?....the Russians in New York definitely will get you one....RPG?....whatever)
The real issue is the watch list itself.
Who gets put on it?
Why?
Dem's don't like the Tea Party members...watch list.
G.O.P. doesn't like Bernie supporters....watch list.
Whoever is in charge would be able to keep a select group from access to anything they would deem dangerous through the "watch list".

Don't fall into the mantra that the political class likes to make into an issue to grab votes from one side to the other.


M.K.
Knight165

[CBoller1331]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

Absolutely awful. Still can't fully wrap my mind around how bad it was.

This involved so many issues our country is facing right now too: terrorism, gun control, anti-LGBT, racism to an extent (ie not wanting to racially profile the shooter b/c he was Arabic)....

[SPTO]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

If I remember right, there was no set "criteria" agreed upon as to what would make someone be put on the terror list or something along that line.
You're also expecting the government to be 100% accurate with who they deem should be on a terror list.
Someone is a friend of someone on social media that FBI found ties to terrorists so now they can deem the friend to be on watch list simply by association... as an example.
In essence if it was passed anyone the FBI etc.. wanted on terror list would have their rights taken away. Some rightfully so and some not so much.
Slippery slope there.

There needs to be more gun laws and I'm all for that but they have to be done right and not just a quick , feel good move.

SPTO;

Two things.
I disagree with the ISIS aspect making it muddy. I think it actually made it pretty clear. He said he was doing it in the name of ISIS. They said they did it.
You don't have to put in an application and be accepted into ISIS.
If you're willing to kill in the name of them and it involves anyone from the West....it's good enough for them.

On the watch list/2nd amendment issue.
You're making it seem as if the G.O.P. opposes keeping terrorists or any other whack job from being able to obtain weapons legally.(which ...let's be honest....isn't really the issue....they will get them by nefarious means anyway.....which might be worse as the selection on the black market would be FAR more wide and varied(want a bazooka?....the Russians in New York definitely will get you one....RPG?....whatever)
The real issue is the watch list itself.
Who gets put on it?
Why?
Dem's don't like the Tea Party members...watch list.
G.O.P. doesn't like Bernie supporters....watch list.
Whoever is in charge would be able to keep a select group from access to anything they would deem dangerous through the "watch list".

Don't fall into the mantra that the political class likes to make into an issue to grab votes from one side to the other.


M.K.
Knight165

You two make excellent points and I was speaking more out of frustration than anything else. I've been in favor of stronger gun laws in the US for a long time now and not just in the context of terrorism but just overall in general. It is true that there is a slippery slope where you can put someone on a "watch list" and thus strip them of civil liberties and I don't think that's something that should be tolerated either.

in the end, it's not a black and white issue but I do think it's fair to say that the antagonistic attitudes between the left and right needs to fall away a bit for there to be a common ground that can attack various issues without becoming radicalized and unwilling to compromise.

There are no easy solutions but if people don't work together than it becomes all that more harder to come to said solutions.

[daflyboys]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

Pro Isis confirmed. Tired of these filth. Enough is enough.

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Exactly.

The momentary outrage and soul-searching from this latest mass shooting will pass. And a few weeks or months from now, some degenerate will walk into a church, school, or library and massacre another 10+ people. The momentary outrage and soul-searching will pass. Rinse and repeat.

Maybe not. Maybe it's time to recognize this group as the "varsity" team and take stronger actions. What the **** are we waiting for?

[cjonesfan921]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/06/...club-shooting/

Welp. They claimed responsibility.


And some dude was arrested in Santa Monica with a bunch of weapons and was planning on launching an attack on the pride parade here in LA too. So this very likely wasn't a "lone wolf" thing.

Of course they claimed responsibility. Whether they truly were responsible or not isn't known now, but I'd guess it's a hell of a lot more likely that they weren't.

Serious question, why not claim responsibility? Their shtick is to spread fear, and this is a convenient way to do so.

If this truly is just a lone-wolf, though, we have more to worry about. These individuals are much more difficult to spot.

[NDAlum]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

I just don't think any of us know the true details of his past history and motivations...so I'll be the mean "why even speculate?" guy.

Let's just wait and see what info we get. Yes we can even argue if we get the truth or not.

The entire situation is just horrible.

[daflyboys]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

I just don't think any of us know the true details of his past history and motivations...so I'll be the mean "why even speculate?" guy.

Let's just wait and see what info we get. Yes we can even argue if we get the truth or not.

The entire situation is just horrible.

Whether the guy is actual ISIS, or just ISIS inspired, then what difference does it make at this point?

Spoiler

sorry... had to be said

[cjonesfan921]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

Whether the guy is actual ISIS, or just ISIS inspired, then what difference does it make at this point?

Spoiler

sorry... had to be said

It makes a difference, in my opinion, in how we combat it. It makes the difference in whether we go boots on the ground or not. Yes, I think it makes a difference.

[daflyboys]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

It makes a difference, in my opinion, in how we combat it. It makes the difference in whether we go boots on the ground or not. Yes, I think it makes a difference.

I think you missed the reference.

I know it makes a difference.

[jb12780]

Re: Terrorism in Orlando

I can't even begin to fathom what that scene must have been like for the police, fire, and EMS personnel who had to respond. I hope they are alright mentally. You don't forget that type of ****.

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