EA vs. its fans.

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Well if that fact sheet equals an overhaul or a major overhaul, then Connected Franchise mode has been overhauled every year. https://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/...cted-franchise https://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/...cted-franchise https://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/.../madden-16-cfm

The change log for Madden NFL 17 franchise mode by number of changes and significance of changes the largest since Madden NFL 13, which brought us a real online franchise feature whose only competition in the online space was (and honestly still is) NCAA Football Online Dynasty.

Quote:

An overhaul or major overhaul, as well as even minor improvements/upgrades of the NFL Franchise Mode in Madden, should mean advancing the NFL realism of it. So when the numerous bullet points of those fact sheets result in only incremental advances in NFL realism to CFM, that's not a Franchise mode major overhaul or overhaul.

So what counts as an overhaul then? You define it as something which results in "advancing the NFL realism", and then allow that the additions provide "advances in NFL realism of [the mode]" in the next thought. Yet somehow this year's changes don't count. What's the criteria then? To where have you moved the goal posts?

Quote:

Imo, they should either focus more on NFL realism in CFM

They already are focusing on realism when they design the new features of Franchise, and provably so.

Big Decisions, practice squads, weekly training, opponent tendency tracking, working auto-subs, simulated game stats / draft class / progression / regression / contract / free agency tuning, and an in-game score ticker each individually and together collectively add realism, authenticity, and context to the mode.

Obviously there are plenty of missing things left to add to the mode - for example, I want to see compensatory draft picks and the PUP list get into next year's game - but are you going to argue that the above additions aren't adding authenticity to the mode?

Quote:

or create a separate true Franchise mode.

Most likely won't happen, as that contradicts the mission statement of Connected Franchise - creating feature parity across online and offline, and in doing so streamlining the game's development process to maximize man-hours spent creating future versions of the game.

Quote:

However what it actually turned out to be was EA Tibs attempt at "the first true sports RPG", which is where the wheels come off the Franchise mode bus.

Every single sports video game in existence is a role-playing game.

The heroes of the game's quest are your team's players. Each player's talents and abilities are quantified by his ratings and traits. The game's story line is organically and dynamically told over the course of your team's season, that season which is comprised of many battles against a variety of enemies (the other professional athletes on the other teams' rosters). The battle system's rules are that of the sport itself, a sport which already has extremely strong parallels with the SNES and Dungeons And Dragons games which probably pop into your head when you hear the phrase "RPG". The narrative of your experience with the game culminates with a series of final battles - the playoffs - and the final boss - the Super Bowl. In the offseason, you add more members to your party, and the offseason concludes with the user effectively pressing the New Game+ button.

The wheels never fell off the bus; the bus left without you years ago.

[UFCMPunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by PVarck31

Yes, Kolbe was the creative director. He was with EA for over 4 years. I wouldn't really call it a troubling sign that he isn't there anymore. Lots of turnover in the gaming industry.

To me, I think that has really hurt Madden since the move to PS3/360 in terms of long term thinking. Previously we have heard things like "3 Year Plan" and it seemed after that new people would take over and scrap everything the previous developers did. Glad that Rex & Co no longer use it and are thinking long term. New Developers come in and go, well they did good but I want to take Madden into this direction instead of going "How can I build upon and add to what they did to maintain the current direction without starting over" which mostly starting over is the case.

When you see Franchise start to head into a good direction which I believe Madden 12 really was going to be a turning point for Franchise and a step in the right direction. It introduced NFL realism as some say in this thread by introducing Player Cuts. Yes it was and still is buggy(especially AI cuts) but that was a step in the right direction. It returned to Madden Player Roles, Future Draft Pick use, and most importantly FULL PLAYER EDITING.

Your excited for Madden 13 and what they may add to keep building upon what was done in Madden 12, then we got the news that it was scrapped for this brand new Connected Franchise Mode to combine Franchise Mode & Superstar Mode into one. All this progress with Madden 12 only to be scrapped and done away with? Everytime we get a new developer on Madden, changes happen and it goes off the path into something new and different and not building on the previous years. Hopefully Rex & Co stay with Madden for a very long time and keep building on what they have started.

[Brightline]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

The change log for Madden NFL 17 franchise mode by number of changes and significance of changes the largest since Madden NFL 13, which brought us a real online franchise feature whose only competition in the online space was (and honestly still is) NCAA Football Online Dynasty. So what counts as an overhaul then? You define it as something which results in "advancing the NFL realism", and then allow that the additions provide "advances in NFL realism of [the mode]" in the next thought. Yet somehow this year's changes don't count. What's the criteria then? To where have you moved the goal posts? They already are focusing on realism when they design the new features of Franchise, and provably so. Big Decisions, practice squads, weekly training, opponent tendency tracking, working auto-subs, simulated game stats / draft class / progression / regression / contract / free agency tuning, and an in-game score ticker each individually and together collectively add realism, authenticity, and context to the mode. Obviously there are plenty of missing things left to add to the mode - for example, I want to see compensatory draft picks and the PUP list get into next year's game - but are you going to argue that the above additions aren't adding authenticity to the mode? Most likely won't happen, as that contradicts the mission statement of Connected Franchise - creating feature parity across online and offline, and in doing so streamlining the game's development process to maximize man-hours spent creating future versions of the game. Every single sports video game in existence is a role-playing game. The heroes of the game's quest are your team's players. Each player's talents and abilities are quantified by his ratings and traits. The game's story line is organically and dynamically told over the course of your team's season, that season which is comprised of many battles against a variety of enemies (the other professional athletes on the other teams' rosters). The battle system's rules are that of the sport itself, a sport which already has extremely strong parallels with the SNES and Dungeons And Dragons games which probably pop into your head when you hear the phrase "RPG". The narrative of your experience with the game culminates with a series of final battles - the playoffs - and the final boss - the Super Bowl. In the offseason, you add more members to your party, and the offseason concludes with the user effectively pressing the New Game+ button. The wheels never fell off the bus; the bus left without you years ago.

I think you make some good points here. But the bottom line is that 5 years into CFM there are just too many basic things we don't have in this mode to believe that being a "simulation" is its top priority. Sure they throw the sim crowd some bones but it is not the focus. The list of the "basics" is too long

1) assistant coaches
2) coaches impacting gameplay
3) restricted free agency
4) custom draft classes
5) different contract structures
6) 1st rd 5th year options
7) seasons to season stat tracking

Forget being innovative, we need those things just for Madden to catch up.

[SyncereBlackout]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brightline

I think you make some good points here. But the bottom line is that 5 years into CFM there are just too many basic things we don't have in this mode to believe that being a "simulation" is its top priority. Sure they throw the sim crowd some bones but it is not the focus. The list of the "basics" is too long 1) assistant coaches 2) coaches impacting gameplay 3) restricted free agency 4) custom draft classes 5) different contract structures 6) 1st rd 5th year options 7) seasons to season stat tracking Forget being innovative, we need those things just for Madden to catch up.

As much as I would want to see the basic things above, I do not want them in for the sake of realism. Yes I want Assistant Coaches, but I have not seen a brilliant idea anywhere of how they should be implemented. (if there's a thread around here, please let me know). Even HC09 execution of GM, and Asst. Coaches was weak.... and i LOVE that game.

I would love to see realistic complex contract structures with performance incentives, guarantees, etc. however management of salary cap is a point of frustration for a lot of users. Many play coach mode instead of owner to avoid the added financial challenges. Annually there's a thread asking for cap help.

I thought I wanted custom draft classes too. Then, I realized what I really miss is porting my NCAA roster into Madden. The full player editing we currently have, while cumbersome, is really not fundamentally different than custom draft classes. You can spend a few hours doling out the guys expected to enter the NFL next year, maybe even in 2 years but after that it's a speculative crapshoot and is no further from sim than the generated draft classes currently in the game.

I agree with you on all other points.

[underdog13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brightline

I think you make some good points here. But the bottom line is that 5 years into CFM there are just too many basic things we don't have in this mode to believe that being a "simulation" is its top priority. Sure they throw the sim crowd some bones but it is not the focus. The list of the "basics" is too long 1) assistant coaches 2) coaches impacting gameplay 3) restricted free agency 4) custom draft classes 5) different contract structures 6) 1st rd 5th year options 7) seasons to season stat tracking Forget being innovative, we need those things just for Madden to catch up.

1,2,3,4(partially as you had ncaa imports), and 7

Were all in madden 2005

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[JBH3]

With the money MUT makes for EA post release I would say it will always get the most attention....which I am ok with btw, I love MUT.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by SyncereBlackout

As much as I would want to see the basic things above, I do not want them in for the sake of realism. Yes I want Assistant Coaches, but I have not seen a brilliant idea anywhere of how they should be implemented. (if there's a thread around here, please let me know). Even HC09 execution of GM, and Asst. Coaches was weak.... and i LOVE that game. I would love to see realistic complex contract structures with performance incentives, guarantees, etc. however management of salary cap is a point of frustration for a lot of users. Many play coach mode instead of owner to avoid the added financial challenges. Annually there's a thread asking for cap help. I thought I wanted custom draft classes too. Then, I realized what I really miss is porting my NCAA roster into Madden. The full player editing we currently have, while cumbersome, is really not fundamentally different than custom draft classes. You can spend a few hours doling out the guys expected to enter the NFL next year, maybe even in 2 years but after that it's a speculative crapshoot and is no further from sim than the generated draft classes currently in the game. I agree with you on all other points.

This post was confusing for me, it seems you are suggesting they shouldn't add back real assistant/position coach positions until there is a brilliant idea for how to implement them. Not to be funny but if that were the bar for realism in any game, there would be minimal authenticity. It's logical to lay a realistic foundation that is basic and potentially is built into something brilliant over time.

The prior way those positions were handled in Madden had real NFL positions, real NFL coaches/coordinators by name, real players retiring in Franchise mode capable of coming back to coach, salaries, teams could poach from each others coaching pool as long as they were offering a better position/promotion and potential player ratings boosts, which is just from M12, M05 had even more stuff, all of which could be simmed/automated.

The obvious thing with your reference to Salary caps is it can simply be turned off or automated but it certainly shouldn't be scaled back universally. Yes a realistic complex contract structure wouldn't be something every gamer would want to directly deal with or maybe even have period and they wouldn't have to but it would exist for others. On the flip side if it's left out completely because of that, there is nothing there for others that want that. The former is clearly more inclusive than the latter and it baffles me when it's presented as somehow divisive.

Lastly the draft classes, you are mistaken, even the current player editing they have touted for M17, is not the same as custom draft classes. I won't go into specifics, there are plenty of threads that break that down. It's cool that you are ok with what is currently offered but again custom draft classes being in for others, doesn't tread on that.

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brightline

I think you make some good points here. But the bottom line is that 5 years into CFM there are just too many basic things we don't have in this mode to believe that being a "simulation" is its top priority. Sure they throw the sim crowd some bones but it is not the focus.

The thing too is that the entire base of the mode is built on something completely unrealistic in goals and progression. No need to beat the dead horse there but even this year when you look at how injuries were handled, I think their intentions were to create something more realistic but ultimately seems to be something very loosely based on realism and more so based on this RPG fantasy that they're trying to create with risk-reward for the sake of risk-reward. The same could be said for numerous other features and decisions they make.

The gameplay team does a great job IMO of trying to cater to as many audiences as possible and that's evident in their implementation. Gap play and increased emphasis on zones being played correctly benefits everyone. The hardcore crowd gets the more fundamental football they desire and the casual players has his players playing smarter and more realistic whether he even realizes it or not. The new ball-carrier mechanics come with options that accommodate everyone from Joe Schmo to the sim-head to the most hardcore Madden tourney player.

It's two different teams so it's not surprising to see two different visions and two different MO's but it is a bit strange to me to see them be so far apart.