After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

[weaklandwarrior]

Same thing goes for my CFM. Some say the CPU is cheating and other know they are making bad decisions. I'm curious to know how much fatigue impacts offensive line on FGs or the extra point after a long drive.

We use a custom slider set we put together to get sim stats. For the most part CPU completes 60-75% of their passes, once in a while they'll do the 80-100% completion. For rushing the CPU is between 16-30 attempts per game. Once in a while you'll see 50+ attempts though. It's been a struggle to find middle group between the CPU just passing all the time, only rushing, and only throwing to dump offs. Generally the stats have been realistic it's just those oddball games where the CPU completes 25 passes in a row. That's why it feels like it's cheating. With our sliders now, the CPU still takes shots downfield.

Our big problem has been the random dice roles in the kicking game. Some seasons (we're on year 11) we don't have any blocks, others it's like the CPU blocks everything, but on the user end we get like maybe 2 blocks a season between the 5 of us.

My biggest issue is with Line play and WR-DB interactions. Sometimes the line will hold blocks for what seems like forever and it feels like the o=lineman are holding my Dline but theres never a penalty so the qb stands in the pocket for 10 seconds while the WR run back to the ball and my DBs jsut give up on the play high motor trait or not. As for WR-DB interactions, it seems liek the DB has no chance to go for the ball. Even if the DB does go for the ball it's pass interference. and then theres the pass interference when the WR grabs the DB and holds the DB but it's still defensive pass interference.

My goal when i play is to try to keep the random dice rolls to a minimum and i try to control the game with defense and running the ball. since we switched to all-madden four seasons ago we've had one user superbowl winner and have had a mix of good/bad teams. Every award didn't go to a user player and the CPU. It's a fun challenge but the random dice rolls can make it feel like the CPU is cheating, even though it add variety.

[montesixpac]

What the game feels like to me is playing a racing game with "slow car catch up", so whoever is behind is more likely to get a beneficial play or penalty. My last game I fought back and forth with Green Bay and down two scores late I found a way to win with seconds left on the clock. It was fun and exciting, but doesn't feel organic when it feels every game ends up in this type of situation.

I do have a very poor offensive line and my running game stinks, so this could certainly play a big role in me never being able to close out games easily. On top of that, I have had heavy injury problems (especially on defense) which could really be hurting my chances of making stops late in games.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by weaklandwarrior

Same thing goes for my CFM. Some say the CPU is cheating and other know they are making bad decisions. I'm curious to know how much fatigue impacts offensive line on FGs or the extra point after a long drive. We use a custom slider set we put together to get sim stats. For the most part CPU completes 60-75% of their passes, once in a while they'll do the 80-100% completion. For rushing the CPU is between 16-30 attempts per game. Once in a while you'll see 50+ attempts though. It's been a struggle to find middle group between the CPU just passing all the time, only rushing, and only throwing to dump offs. Generally the stats have been realistic it's just those oddball games where the CPU completes 25 passes in a row. That's why it feels like it's cheating. With our sliders now, the CPU still takes shots downfield. Our big problem has been the random dice roles in the kicking game. Some seasons (we're on year 11) we don't have any blocks, others it's like the CPU blocks everything, but on the user end we get like maybe 2 blocks a season between the 5 of us. My biggest issue is with Line play and WR-DB interactions. Sometimes the line will hold blocks for what seems like forever and it feels like the o=lineman are holding my Dline but theres never a penalty so the qb stands in the pocket for 10 seconds while the WR run back to the ball and my DBs jsut give up on the play high motor trait or not. As for WR-DB interactions, it seems liek the DB has no chance to go for the ball. Even if the DB does go for the ball it's pass interference. and then theres the pass interference when the WR grabs the DB and holds the DB but it's still defensive pass interference. My goal when i play is to try to keep the random dice rolls to a minimum and i try to control the game with defense and running the ball. since we switched to all-madden four seasons ago we've had one user superbowl winner and have had a mix of good/bad teams. Every award didn't go to a user player and the CPU. It's a fun challenge but the random dice rolls can make it feel like the CPU is cheating, even though it add variety.

Fatigue does play a role plus the dice rolls. To what extent, I have no idea.

[VanillaEps]

I don't think the CPU cheats or has the "comeback" that it used to have - but I do notice that there are certain drives where I know from the beginning that its been "scripted" for the CPU to score.

Running backs become juke and spin machines and they shed tackles like their dipped in grease. All of a sudden, my defensive line is not getting any pressure and the WR's and TE's are finding the perfect soft spots in my zone coverages. Or in man coverage, by DB is caught with his pants down. That'll happen the entire drive and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.

That and the field goal/punt block - where my kicker takes an extra second or two to go through his motion to get the kick off and its blocked.

[NinersFan49]

Quote: Originally Posted by VanillaEps

I don't think the CPU cheats or has the "comeback" that it used to have - but I do notice that there are certain drives where I know from the beginning that its been "scripted" for the CPU to score. Running backs become juke and spin machines and they shed tackles like their dipped in grease. All of a sudden, my defensive line is not getting any pressure and the WR's and TE's are finding the perfect soft spots in my zone coverages. Or in man coverage, by DB is caught with his pants down. That'll happen the entire drive and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. That and the field goal/punt block - where my kicker takes an extra second or two to go through his motion to get the kick off and its blocked.

Exactly, I experience the same thing. Btw, I notice the opposite too, where the cpu basically plays crappy to stop itself. The running back will go down super easily just short of the first down or the QB will throw the ball away when he's got guys open.

It's not really cheating to defeat the user, it just wants to control the flow of the game.

[SilverBullet19]

I don't find the CPU doing a comeback, just a lot more "video game bulls**t" on all-madden, as my college roommate used to call it. Insane plays by CPU, blatant dropped passed/missed blocks by user teams, unstoppable CPU offenses, a whole bunch of "motha f***in BOOWAP!"

I am quite literally laughing right remembering him yell out those two phrases all the time lol

Back on topic: that's why I prefer all-pro with sliders. I could only win maybe 1/3 of games on all Madden, with a team 5-10 points better than the CPU.

[sonofthedude777]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

I have commented on the theory of the AI being programmed to comeback, or whatever anyone wishes to call it, in recent threads, and from that I decided to do my own tests as follows: In practice mode, I used a based 4-3 defense and then 3-4 in Cover 2 Man; I then ran an I-Form fade route play, the play name escapes me, but I believe it is in many playbooks under I-Form Pro, with both WR's doing fades on either side, and the TE doing a fade down the seam... The reason I ran this play was because the CPU, which was running the offense consistently, without failure, would throw to the primary WR.. I ran through 10 plays, and then I would switch the next lower rated CB over to the primary side and do another 10 plays, on so on.. The results were, generally as follows: For relatively equal CB's in ratings to the WR, the win to loss, catch being a win and incomplete, interception, etc being a loss, after 10 plays they were even, or within 1 either in favor of WR or CB...But as I rotated out to lesser rated CB's the wins for the WR increased steadily as the DB ratings got worse; the last CB was rated 64 against a WR at OVR 89, with a 7-4 advantage for the WR.. A couple of things I noticed within the experiment: the difference between wins and losses didn't deviate until I got to the 64 rated CB, all staying essentially 5-5 or 5-4 WR advantage against a 70's rated CB, but what changed was how well the CB prevented further progress by teh WR after the catch; so there is more to the win/loss scenario within the ratings besides just a catch or no catch... ALso... Ratings DO MATTER....These people running videos showing how Zero rated blockers at 5'6" tall and 160 pounds can block like players rated 99 are proving nothing, and it is my opinion that they are merely breaking the game formulas as I assume the formulas were never meant to work with such ridiculously low numbers, even though they are available - my other opinion would also be that even though the pass protection in these videos appears to hold up, in the overall balance and performance of the other players are affected and the real results would be seen when attempting to run a full game. I regards to OL; I was running an offense against the Packers Defense in 2-4-5 formations, and DE Mike Daniels was blowing up the LG on every play, on this one play I was running over and over; I looked at my LG and noticed he had an AWR of 80, so I introduced another lineman with 89 AWR, and all of a sudden, Mike Daniels was not getting the game block shed and spin moving around my LG... These ratings, and the game programming are meant to be run within a specific range, and results, positive or negative, can only be truly identified as a part of the whole of a teams' performance.. Another interesting event I noticed was when I was testing playbooks..My initial idea was that maybe plays within different playbooks, even if its the same play, may have slight variations in logic. Again, I was testing the Cover 2 Man defense because I am obsessed with trying to figure out how to use Man Coverage effectively and consistently. I ran the Cover 2 Man against Quick Slants out of the I-Form..When I tested the Bills Defensive Playbook I noticed that about 5 out of 10 plays, CB Stephon Gilmore was actually beating, jumping in front of the slant route; I looked at Gilmore's ratings, and he is good but not great in relation to other CB's, so I tested the Bills playbook, and that specific play with other teams, and there appears from my tests, to be something about that play in that playbook that allows for the #1 CB to jump the slant route about 50% of the time... As of now I see this as something interestingly enough to mention and to continue testing...It would be interesting to find out that certain playbooks are different, and/or better than others, or maybe have certain plays which are better or worse than the same play in other playbooks..

Did you ever try to do the same thing in game?

Also do you guys think there is some kind of boost in division games? I can beat all madden 99% of the time thanks to cover zero mostly. Some games though against division rivals mostly it is just pic city. I am throwing passes in coverage that are mostly completed under normal conditions. The CPU has average rated players making Herculean plays to pick them off. For example I run a flat curl vs cover 2 the 75 rated cb will dive 5 yards and intercept the flat route. Most often that is a completion for a few yards. That **** annoys me. It has also happened to me in the playoffs a lot, even against users. 2 seasons in a row I dominated my buddy in our head to head games blowing him out by 3 scores. I went 16 and 0 both years. Then in the playoffs against him it was fumble and int city. The reciprical happened in my favor against him so it is not sour grapes. I think the game makes it extremely difficult to go undefeated, which is fine but user vs user it should not be that way.


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[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by cable guy

I just don't have comebacks like these though. I've gone into another teams house, in which these things happen. Minus blocked FGS and Punts. Some here and there. But not multiple in one game. And games this happens to me is places like Green Bay, Seattle, Pittsburgh, New England, and of course division rivals. Mainly Washington for some reason. Again, this has been from the get go. Not Cpu comebacks. It's From the kickoff, till the final whistle. I just know its going to be a LONG game. Not one thing goes right. Penalties, fumbles, big plays given up. Not... One... Single... Thing... Goes right. And the thing is....I've watched my Cowboys IRL have many, many games like these. Way too many. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

You mean like this?