madden should take notes from nba 2k11

[wyrm187]

I agree with you guys, madden doesn't feel right at all - I for one do not like the art work of the player models and the gameplay is a step down from 05 which is mindblowing - every EA game uses similar player models and they don't do it for me. They should have reskinned 05 with upgraded graphics - that would be awesome. The Show does this for PS2/Ps3 - same exact fricking game with graphic upgrades, and guess what? - it works.

Bottom line - this game is no fun at all to play. I always play a franchise with my brother every year and this year after 2 games we sold this game back. I always hate to feed into the negativity and bashing on the boards - but this game truly sucked hardcore this year (lack of defense ruined this game for me and we waited for the patch) and they've lost this blind purchase every year until they can put out a better product - nuff said , thanks

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I think we have different ideas of what better gameplay is, but let's see... Verticle action is not THAT bad in Madden. If Williams doesn't need to move laterally, yeah, this looks OK. But run outside and see what happens. One of 2 things: Williams wins and persues or blocker wins & pancakes. Unfortuanately, what happens in the NFL most of the time is that the blocker will engage Williams while he flows towards the play, then Williams will shed or attempt to shed as he approaches the ball carrier. On outside plays, the entire o-line & d-line engage and flow playside, so far sometimes that the backside DE ends up beyond the where the center lined up originally. All of the running lanes shift. OLBs or DEs attempt to contain & keep outside leverage. Very rarely is a RB allowed to just take the corner, Chris Johnson not included. More often than not, a RB will turn it up inside the contain or cut it back. In Madden, everone engages and is stuck in mud until someone wins. There's no flow to the outside. There's no contain. There are no gap assignments. Thus, the spacing & timing is nothing like the NFL. Many times when you run a toss/sweep, the only defender there is a CB unless the OLB or DE completely defeats his block. Ever send Williams on a stunt? Did you laugh as he looped around aimlessly just to meet the o-linemen that has been waiting for him. Did you notice the 1st d-lineman made no attempt to engage 2 o-linemen, which is what his job really should be? Ever control the DEs? No speed rush for guys like Freeney. No Reggie White hump move that DEs are bringing back. Same ole engage, patty cake, win/lose, go. Are you really adjusting all the d-linemen & WR ratings? I'm not. But some other things ratings don't fix: I can only motion one WR. If I want to motion a 2nd one, I have to put the 1st one back in his original spot. Neither can I stop a WR mid-motion as many teams do to identify man/zone coverage. Nor can I press my CBs individually. Nor can I bring my SS down in the box without effecting my CBs. Nor can I shade my CBs. All this after I can't even call a defensive play I want. Not being able to select stunts, blitzes & coverage separately leaves me with the few pre-packaged schemes EA provides. I rarely can find a defense that matches the scheme in my head, so I have to choose either the stunt, blitz or coverage I want and hope the rest will due. Yeah, we disagree what a good football game is. I could write an essay on what's missing. I'll just say the football I want to play is not here.

Very accurate and insightful post. 100% correct.

[Rashad19]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I think we have different ideas of what better gameplay is, but let's see... Verticle action is not THAT bad in Madden. If Williams doesn't need to move laterally, yeah, this looks OK. But run outside and see what happens. One of 2 things: Williams wins and persues or blocker wins & pancakes. Unfortuanately, what happens in the NFL most of the time is that the blocker will engage Williams while he flows towards the play, then Williams will shed or attempt to shed as he approaches the ball carrier. On outside plays, the entire o-line & d-line engage and flow playside, so far sometimes that the backside DE ends up beyond the where the center lined up originally. All of the running lanes shift. OLBs or DEs attempt to contain & keep outside leverage. Very rarely is a RB allowed to just take the corner, Chris Johnson not included. More often than not, a RB will turn it up inside the contain or cut it back. In Madden, everone engages and is stuck in mud until someone wins. There's no flow to the outside. There's no contain. There are no gap assignments. Thus, the spacing & timing is nothing like the NFL. Many times when you run a toss/sweep, the only defender there is a CB unless the OLB or DE completely defeats his block. Ever send Williams on a stunt? Did you laugh as he looped around aimlessly just to meet the o-linemen that has been waiting for him. Did you notice the 1st d-lineman made no attempt to engage 2 o-linemen, which is what his job really should be? Ever control the DEs? No speed rush for guys like Freeney. No Reggie White hump move that DEs are bringing back. Same ole engage, patty cake, win/lose, go. Are you really adjusting all the d-linemen & WR ratings? I'm not. But some other things ratings don't fix: I can only motion one WR. If I want to motion a 2nd one, I have to put the 1st one back in his original spot. Neither can I stop a WR mid-motion as many teams do to identify man/zone coverage. Nor can I press my CBs individually. Nor can I bring my SS down in the box without effecting my CBs. Nor can I shade my CBs. All this after I can't even call a defensive play I want. Not being able to select stunts, blitzes & coverage separately leaves me with the few pre-packaged schemes EA provides. I rarely can find a defense that matches the scheme in my head, so I have to choose either the stunt, blitz or coverage I want and hope the rest will due. Yeah, we disagree what a good football game is. I could write an essay on what's missing. I'll just say the football I want to play is not here.

Great post Bezo! I'm looking for the type of football experience you just described. Not sure we'll ever see it with this current Madden Development team.

It appears instead of taking the innovation route to redo the gameplay entirely, they continue to piece-meal upgrades to the existing system that is already broken.

[carnalnirvana]

again i fully agree ^^^^^ bez0, however until madden19 comes out madden 11 has some possibilities......

the stuff playmaker introduced that never made its way back is just criminal, could it be WAYYYY better oh yeah

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I think we have different ideas of what better gameplay is, but let's see... Verticle action is not THAT bad in Madden. If Williams doesn't need to move laterally, yeah, this looks OK. But run outside and see what happens. One of 2 things: Williams wins and persues or blocker wins & pancakes. Unfortuanately, what happens in the NFL most of the time is that the blocker will engage Williams while he flows towards the play, then Williams will shed or attempt to shed as he approaches the ball carrier. On outside plays, the entire o-line & d-line engage and flow playside, so far sometimes that the backside DE ends up beyond the where the center lined up originally. All of the running lanes shift. OLBs or DEs attempt to contain & keep outside leverage. Very rarely is a RB allowed to just take the corner, Chris Johnson not included. More often than not, a RB will turn it up inside the contain or cut it back. In Madden, everone engages and is stuck in mud until someone wins. There's no flow to the outside. There's no contain. There are no gap assignments. Thus, the spacing & timing is nothing like the NFL. Many times when you run a toss/sweep, the only defender there is a CB unless the OLB or DE completely defeats his block. Ever send Williams on a stunt? Did you laugh as he looped around aimlessly just to meet the o-linemen that has been waiting for him. Did you notice the 1st d-lineman made no attempt to engage 2 o-linemen, which is what his job really should be? Ever control the DEs? No speed rush for guys like Freeney. No Reggie White hump move that DEs are bringing back. Same ole engage, patty cake, win/lose, go. Are you really adjusting all the d-linemen & WR ratings? I'm not. But some other things ratings don't fix: I can only motion one WR. If I want to motion a 2nd one, I have to put the 1st one back in his original spot. Neither can I stop a WR mid-motion as many teams do to identify man/zone coverage. Nor can I press my CBs individually. Nor can I bring my SS down in the box without effecting my CBs. Nor can I shade my CBs. All this after I can't even call a defensive play I want. Not being able to select stunts, blitzes & coverage separately leaves me with the few pre-packaged schemes EA provides. I rarely can find a defense that matches the scheme in my head, so I have to choose either the stunt, blitz or coverage I want and hope the rest will due. Yeah, we disagree what a good football game is. I could write an essay on what's missing. I'll just say the football I want to play is not here.

Awesome post. Between you and me though, I think it will take more than an essay lol.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by fcabanski

2K11 includes ignoring basic basketball rules - players with six fouls don't leave the game. 2K11 includes teams all drafting the same player in drafts. 2K11 includes auto play call in which the same two or three plays are called throughout the game. Don't be too hasty.

I don't think people are only referring to the things 2K may have missed/messed up on as you're trying to bash them on. You're not taking into account the effort of trying to improve things in 2K11 across the board. There was no "this year we work on franchise, next year defense, the year after receiving, etc." as Tiburon seems to do with their yearly themed upgrades. Of course Tiburon isn't working on any one thing, but they never seem to make a comprehensive attempt to improve across the board - and the game suffers because of that.

And as others have said, they'll introduce a feature one year and completely abandon it the next. It wasn't that long ago that Tiburon tried to have unique running styles for running backs. Granted it wasn't all that great and was only for a handful of backs - but it was something. I think the very next year it was gone and never heard from again. Until they added the unique QB throws, which again is a start. But something they haven't built on. Same with Pro-Tak. Hated it's initial implementation, but they were trying to address a fundamental need for better player interaction. I figured it was a given we'd get Pro-Tak 2.0 or something this year, yet it went largely untouched.

You can fault 2K for what they got wrong, but they got far more right. And don't think anyone can fault their effort to improve the game across the board. That's what Tiburon needs to take notes on imo.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I don't think people are only referring to the things 2K may have missed/messed up on as you're trying to bash them on. You're not taking into account the effort of trying to improve things in 2K11 across the board. There was no "this year we work on franchise, next year defense, the year after receiving, etc." as Tiburon seems to do with their yearly themed upgrades. Of course Tiburon isn't working on any one thing, but they never seem to make a comprehensive attempt to improve across the board - and the game suffers because of that. And as others have said, they'll introduce a feature one year and completely abandon it the next. It wasn't that long ago that Tiburon tried to have unique running styles for running backs. Granted it wasn't all that great and was only for a handful of backs - but it was something. I think the very next year it was gone and never heard from again. Until they added the unique QB throws, which again is a start. But something they haven't built on. Same with Pro-Tak. Hated it's initial implementation, but they were trying to address a fundamental need for better player interaction. I figured it was a given we'd get Pro-Tak 2.0 or something this year, yet it went largely untouched. You can fault 2K for what they got wrong, but they got far more right. And don't think anyone can fault their effort to improve the game across the board. That's what Tiburon needs to take notes on imo.

Good thoughts and I agree.

[canes21]

I am going to be short and direct.

I still prefer ESPN NFL 2k5 and SPF 2k8 over Madden and NCAA 11 just because I feel they represent the sport of football better and more realistically. EA has never really sold me on any of their sports. I have always preferred 2k over EA in any sports game. So, I think EA should take notes from 2k, but sales figures say otherwise even if they are NFL fans buying Madden just because its the only option.

Don't really know how that contributes to the thread, but thats how I feel right now. i am fed up with EA and their "genius" ideas.