My Final Take on MLB The Show 17 - from a Critical Standpoint

[Padgoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by RockPowderDownLoL

well Russel did say the hitting mechanics mimic a round ball hitting a round bat . things to consider are the height of the batter and the angle the pitch is coming in at. pull or push hitter? using contact or normal swing? pitch type? batter stance? we gotta stop relying on the swing feedback timing aspect because I don't think it considers these things. in your case was it a lefty vs righty /vice versa or were hitter and pitcher same handedness? again the location of the pci is not an indication of where the ball made contact with the bat. its the zone / the path your bat TOOK to the ball, or where it started its path to the ball.

And again, that's the EXACT point of this thread. You're so busy trying to defend the game and explain your rationale that you ignored the entire point of the thread. The pci should NOT be a zone because that puts way too much control into the hands of the game. The game basically dictates if it's time to get a hit or not based on where it places the bat in the zone. This defies logic and physics entirely. Instead of our hitting being physics based, it's based on ratings and score of the game and whether the game decided it was time to get a hit. Your logic behind inside pitches made some sense, but trying to defend the hitting by asking height of the batter and swing plane of the bat are total and complete reaches. The facts are that the pci is a zone as per the developers and that alone allows the game itself to dictate whether a ball is hit hard or not. You want us to ignore the pci? What's the point of adding it to the game? You want me to see your point but you're totally ignoring mine.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Padgoi

And again, that's the EXACT point of this thread. You're so busy trying to defend the game and explain your rationale that you ignored the entire point of the thread. The pci should NOT be a zone because that puts way too much control into the hands of the game. The game basically dictates if it's time to get a hit or not based on where it places the bat in the zone. This defies logic and physics entirely. Instead of our hitting being physics based, it's based on ratings and score of the game and whether the game decided it was time to get a hit. Your logic behind inside pitches made some sense, but trying to defend the hitting by asking height of the batter and swing plane of the bat are total and complete reaches. The facts are that the pci is a zone as per the developers and that alone allows the game itself to dictate whether a ball is hit hard or not. You want us to ignore the pci? What's the point of adding it to the game? You want me to see your point but you're totally ignoring mine. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

simply put. i am saying the feedback shows where your batter started their swing path.

as the user you need to factor in what kind of tendency your batter has to pull or push which will determine where that path ends up and you adjust accordingly.

i simply said ignore the timing factor on the feedback because I don't think it can take as many things into consideration.

to me the the pci represents where in the ZONE i am going to begin my batters swing path and based on what kind of swing my batter has will determine how I adjust to each pitch mid pitch on a pitch to pitch basis.

[djep]

I think the OP is looking for a more arcade experience and I say that not in a way that elevates sim vs. arcade. With MLB the Show, I prefer a stats-driven sim experience so I have no issues with the game dictating outcomes based on some user input. With NBA 2K, I prefer a more arcade experience vs. people who choose to use Real FT and/or FG shooting percentages.

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by djep

I think the OP is looking for a more arcade experience and I say that not in a way that elevates sim vs. arcade. With MLB the Show, I prefer a stats-driven sim experience so I have no issues with the game dictating outcomes based on some user input. With NBA 2K, I prefer a more arcade experience vs. people who choose to use Real FT and/or FG shooting percentages.

Very well stated.

The Show does an amazing job with random dice roll results based on statistics and ratings.

For me and the way I play the game (everyone is different) with classic pitching and directional hitting its like playing Statis-Pro and Strato-Matic baseball.

It’s glorious.

MLBTS 17 is by no means a perfect game. But it is the closet game I have personally played to replicating it's sport on a console (NBA 2K18 is also right there). The new ball physics this year are simply amazing and I am still seeing new things after playing well over 200 games offline.

Online is a totally different story. Diamond Dynasty (a mode I actually enjoy) was unplayable for me this year. Online this game was a train wreck. I don't know what happened. But they need to move it forward as they made great progress on 15 and 16 and took 10 steps back online.

Hitting for me has never, ever been better than on 17. The hit variety is unmatched. The fielding animations and humanity AI is fantastic.

My final impression for 17 is the game offline was the best sports game I have ever played. It can still use some improvement (passed balls, catcher reactions were too lax on them where they used to be too good) on passed balls and catcher reactions and throws. The throws had no urgency, the catcher mitt tap, then throw....it sucks. But they know this. And I have a great feeling it will be fixed and tuned far better for MLBTS 18. But overall?

9 out of 10 for offline

3 out of 10 for online

I fully expect to see gameplay tuned more for 18, and I am very hopeful they have some surprises for us in franchise mode and presentation. It needs a refresh.


Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports

[djep]

Quote: Originally Posted by Armor and Sword

Very well stated. The Show does an amazing job with random dice roll results based on statistics and ratings. For me and the way I play the game (everyone is different) with classic pitching and directional hitting its like playing Statis-Pro and Strato-Matic baseball. It’s glorious. Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports

Agreed - I use Pure Analog and I turn off all batter feedback. I find those tools to be in line with the strike zone overlay on Fox MLB broadcasts - I don't trust them and don't need them. Just going by feel the gameplay is so tight that I always feel the results are believable based on my input. When I put a good swing on a pitch, i get positive results more often than not. There's enough of a gray area to allow for the nuances of hitting a sphere with a cylindrical bat.

There are so many ways to play this game and it really is great. You use classic pitching so you are willing to give up a certain amount of user control in that part of the game. The OP wants more user control when it comes to hitting and his suggestion is a good one for achieving that.

[jada855]

Some good points by the OP,

Base running is also a key fundamental that needs to be worked on. At the moment the current implementation just does not work. Hope to see CPU runners be aggressive in situations and knowledgeable about what's going on in the context of a game.

Now that I think about it playing player lock and watching all 9 innings over the course of the MLB The Show series and Seasons. I don't think I have ever seen a CPU player turn back too a base in a critical situation sense. Which makes all the plays feel even more scripted.

[Padgoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by djep

I think the OP is looking for a more arcade experience and I say that not in a way that elevates sim vs. arcade. With MLB the Show, I prefer a stats-driven sim experience so I have no issues with the game dictating outcomes based on some user input. With NBA 2K, I prefer a more arcade experience vs. people who choose to use Real FT and/or FG shooting percentages.

I don't think any of my ideas would suggest I'm looking for an arcade experience. I'm simply looking for an experience that MY SKILLS dictate. I personally don't want to play a game in which so much is dictated by the game because . . . it feels scripted. I'm not in control. I could just as easily watch baseball because I'm not in control of that either. I want my user input, my skill, to dictate the results with the ratings coming into play via ease of meter use and PCI size. Why on earth would anyone want to play a game in which so much is dictated to them in an effort to obtain realistic stats? What good are realistic stats if they were fabricated by unrealistic events and dictated results?

I'm not looking for an arcade experience at all. I'm looking for an experience in which realism occurs due to ratings AS WELL AS my user skills. But I want my skills to dictate more. I want it to be possible to take the San Diego Padres to the World Series on Legend if I'm that good at the game. That's the way it should be. The way it is now, it's literally impossible to succeed with a poor team on higher difficulty levels because it's dictated that those teams aren't good and therefore won't succeed regardless of user input. That simply isn't realistic to me.

Quote: Originally Posted by jada855

Some good points by the OP, Base running is also a key fundamental that needs to be worked on. At the moment the current implementation just does not work. Hope to see CPU runners be aggressive in situations and knowledgeable about what's going on in the context of a game. Now that I think about it playing player lock and watching all 9 innings over the course of the MLB The Show series and Seasons. I don't think I have ever seen a CPU player turn back too a base in a critical situation sense. Which makes all the plays feel even more scripted.

Another very good point that I missed. So many times I've had a runner on second, hit a sharp single to right, and the runner on second (even though I have running on MANUAL) runs back to second and cannot advance to third. How many times in real baseball have you seen a runner on second not advance to THIRD on a single??? It just adds to the belief that too many results are dictated by the game and it totally ruins the immersion factor for me. I see no reason to play a game in which results are dictated based on ratings and in which user input can at times be largely ignored because . . . the game said so.

[Bunselpower32]

Quote: Originally Posted by RockPowderDownLoL

well Russel did say the hitting mechanics mimic a round ball hitting a round bat .

No matter what Russell says, this is not true. Hitting mechanics are a very oversized 2D ellipse at a square angle to the rectangular strikezone being approximated to a 3D surface NOT at a perfect angle to the strikezone. This results in, what do you know, weak popups on inside pitches, probably the weakest point of the game this year.

Seriously, just go to PYS, ask them for their stuff, and use it. It would be amazing.

OP, you are very, very spot on with just about all of your analysis.

I don't know how the poster can say you are looking for an arcade experience. You actually detailed how you want ratings and real life tendencies reflected in the interface. That seems like you want LESS RNG and MORE grittiness and realism. I'm on board with all of these things.

Add in gesture pitching and I will sign a 20 year commitment to SCEA and The Show if this stuff gets implemented.