Test: Dribble Penetration

[jlaz]

players shouldn't be getting hip ride animation s from turboing straight into defenders. angles and positioning should mean something.

[BehindtheArc88]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

While dribble penetration is a welcome addition to 2K18 and aids in how beautiful and free flowing the game is.....it has to be better balanced. Early H2H gameplay has shown that the balance aspect is lacking. This isn't calling out the devs...you never know about some issues with balance until millions of people get their hands on your game--many with the intention of breaking it. The issues with dribble penetration are as follows: 1) There's no emphasis on going AROUND or BY the defender by requiring the user point the stick off-center. Many guys are simply dribbling right into the defender and pressing turbo. 2) Charges are non-existent. This is probably the biggest issue....dribblers have no conscience attacking when over-aggression isn't punished...and in this case its rewarded, often with shooting and blocking fouls. 3) There aren't enough loose balls. Turboing into defenders should result in turnovers almost as a rule. VOILA! another chance to show off the loose ball system. 4) The dribble interactions aren't held to a hardcore standard. This sticks out when so many other areas of gameplay are...look at how contested/physical the paint is. The shot-meter demands you have skill, the improved passing? The list goes on and on. When the dribbler is forced to turn his back it should serve as gameplay "warning" players that no progress is being made...continuing to hit turbo or make contact after that should result in Losing the ball and Offensive Fouls. Look at how long it takes for Derozan to lose the ball here (Covington's on-ball defense IQ is 89) 5) The success rate is too high. There's almost no situation where the dribbler fails. They can collide with the defender until they get a favorable animation. After a few unsuccessful tries, Derozan simply walks Covington to the basket here: What should happen? Well in addition to losing the ball and turnovers, lets see more guys redirected off their intended path when they aren't successful, like happens here: Lastly, I took my Richaun Holmes my 76 rated backup center (speed with ball rating: 44) and simulated 20 instances where he drove the ball into a defense. I went right at the defender and pressed shoot when I was in position. He was stonewalled (forced to turn his back) on only three occasions. The others saw him drive easily on the defender and get into the lane...good position defense forced him to pull up twice and he was driven out of bounds two times. There are no fouls so we can only imagine how many times he would have gotten a whistle--but I can think we call can agree that success rate is HORRIBLE. See for yourself: NOTE: The end of the video got cut off--but trust me there were 20 of them.

I knew someone would post some nonsense like this. If a guy keeps blowing past you, back up. You cant bump someone to keep thrm from driving.

Pick your posion and learn how to defend

[jeebs9]

I haven't enjoyed playing the CPU in a loooooong time...

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by BehindtheArc88

I knew someone would post some nonsense like this. If a guy keeps blowing past you, back up. You cant bump someone to keep thrm from driving. Pick your posion and learn how to defend

Cool story, bro. I hear i'm halfway decent at defending, btw. You know you're telling on yourself when you think people only post the stuff they struggle with, right? This isn't a rage post...I usually address imbalances in the game and things I anticipate could be issues during the cycle.

[xCoachDx]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

While dribble penetration is a welcome addition to 2K18 and aids in how beautiful and free flowing the game is.....it has to be better balanced. Early H2H gameplay has shown that the balance aspect is lacking. This isn't calling out the devs...you never know about some issues with balance until millions of people get their hands on your game--many with the intention of breaking it. The issues with dribble penetration are as follows: 1) There's no emphasis on going AROUND or BY the defender by requiring the user point the stick off-center. Many guys are simply dribbling right into the defender and pressing turbo. 2) Charges are non-existent. This is probably the biggest issue....dribblers have no conscience attacking when over-aggression isn't punished...and in this case its rewarded, often with shooting and blocking fouls. 3) There aren't enough loose balls. Turboing into defenders should result in turnovers almost as a rule. VOILA! another chance to show off the loose ball system. 4) The dribble interactions aren't held to a hardcore standard. This sticks out when so many other areas of gameplay are...look at how contested/physical the paint is. The shot-meter demands you have skill, the improved passing? The list goes on and on. When the dribbler is forced to turn his back it should serve as gameplay "warning" players that no progress is being made...continuing to hit turbo or make contact after that should result in Losing the ball and Offensive Fouls. Look at how long it takes for Derozan to lose the ball here (Covington's on-ball defense IQ is 89) 5) The success rate is too high. There's almost no situation where the dribbler fails. They can collide with the defender until they get a favorable animation. After a few unsuccessful tries, Derozan simply walks Covington to the basket here: What should happen? Well in addition to losing the ball and turnovers, lets see more guys redirected off their intended path when they aren't successful, like happens here: Lastly, I took my Richaun Holmes my 76 rated backup center (speed with ball rating: 44) and simulated 20 instances where he drove the ball into a defense. I went right at the defender and pressed shoot when I was in position. He was stonewalled (forced to turn his back) on only three occasions. The others saw him drive easily on the defender and get into the lane...good position defense forced him to pull up twice and he was driven out of bounds two times. There are no fouls so we can only imagine how many times he would have gotten a whistle--but I can think we call can agree that success rate is HORRIBLE. See for yourself: NOTE: The end of the video got cut off--but trust me there were 20 of them.

If it's resulting in a lot of missed shots, then at least it is something we can live with right? I mean if you were able to do this and get an easy layup that would be totally different. Also, in all of these the AI was guarding the ball. Does the same thing happen when the user is guarding the ball?

[BehindtheArc88]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

Cool story, bro. I hear i'm halfway decent at defending, btw. You know you're telling on yourself when you think people only post the stuff they struggle with, right? This isn't a rage post...I usually address imbalances in the game and things I anticipate could be issues during the cycle.

Decent percentage but 16 losses is a little early for playing less than 100 games.

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by xCoachDx

If it's resulting in a lot of missed shots, then at least it is something we can live with right? I mean if you were able to do this and get an easy layup that would be totally different. Also, in all of these the AI was guarding the ball. Does the same thing happen when the user is guarding the ball?

Hey Coach,

It was a bench player on a tier 4 team so I can only imagine what elite players will do when users get comfortable....won't be pretty. Harden will probably hit his share of crazy shots AND go to the line ton (draw foul rating: 98) we've seen this movie before guys, we KNOW how it ends....

I'm definitely not tooting my own horn but i've been right before about this kind of thing. I play online exclusively and have played 2K since 2K2 (online since 2003) its not hard to spot something that will break H2H because its unbalanced...its not my first rodeo. I love the fluidity of the game as much as anyone else, and what i'm suggesting doesn't affect that. It just makes driving more risk/reward. And it needs to be---TRUST.

Me predicting the issues with 2K17: http://spgmg.blogspot.com/2016/09/2k17-musings_22.html

Me predicting the issues with 2K16: http://spgmg.blogspot.com/2015/10/no...none.html#more

Quote: Originally Posted by BehindtheArc88

Decent percentage but 16 losses is a little early for playing less than 100 games.

🙄🙄😂😂😂

[RyanFitzmagic]

Quote: Originally Posted by BehindtheArc88

I knew someone would post some nonsense like this. If a guy keeps blowing past you, back up. You cant bump someone to keep thrm from driving. Pick your posion and learn how to defend

Shouldn't it depend on the matchup? I don't think it's something universal where you can say "You can't bump someone to keep them from driving." I've seen players' first steps get cut off in one-on-one situations IRL, and IMO elite perimeter defenders can do it somewhat consistently.

And it's especially relevant since, in his Richaun Holmes example, the defender (I think it's Greg Monroe, who has a 54 Lateral Quickness vs Holmes' 44 Speed w/Ball) is sagging off of Holmes, but Holmes is still turning the corner with ease. Greg Monroe has the advantage in terms of ratings (54 LQ vs 44 SWB; I think LQ and SWB are the main factors here, but I could be wrong), and he's playing back like you said he should.

I agree that ballhandlers were stonewalled too often in 2K17, but stonewalling, while rare (depending on the matchup), should still be there IMO, even without a massive mismatch.