Coaching sliders to 'fix' gameplay

[gatorsinRENO]

Quote: Originally Posted by wepr3

Thank you for the suggestion. I've got the game playing pretty well for my tastes, but it has been bothering me that FSU's defense 111th in the country in passing defense. Whether I play or I sim, we can't stop the pass for anything. Will definitely test this out later.

anytime I have ever had a dynasty, my teams are always excellent (top 10) at stopping the run, but passing defense is usually the worst or near the worst in the country, it's always baffled me

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chedapalooza

Ok so I'm testing w coaching sliders right now. I'm playing the PAC12 champ game in my test dysnasty season one. Arizona(8-4) at #2Washington (11-0) I put sliders for HC/OC/DC for both teams to the following: Offense aggression : 80/20 Defense aggression: 20/80 Game is phenomenal. The offense has balls, running north and south, QB has markedly increased pocket presence and mobility to use his O line as a pocket. Defense is playing their zones very full, meaning they pick up a man and stick with him until he actually leaves the zone. Blitzers are doing so with purpose and actually looking for a clear path rather than mindlessly running Into blockers. Overall everyone just looks so... Alive. Like they're actually playing.. Not just going thru the motions. So I have no idea WHAT these sliders should be called or how to describe it, but that setup is a+ amazing

You have been trying the same thing I hit on and I have seen the same sort of effects. We agree on the defensive aggressiveness slider; the game plays much better there. However, the offensive aggressiveness being so high can be problematic when going against more run oriented (non-triple option) teams. I had noticed that nearly every coach in default rosters have more aggressive offensive tendencies. So, as an experiment, I changed every team to have a 50/50 offensive aggression (with defensive aggressiveness at lower levels). Following your post, I tried a game using the 80/20 split. My observations:

With 50/50 offensive aggressiveness (using Va Tech vs. Alabama):

• Bama ran the ball up the gut and off-tackle more than I ever have seen (they played like 'Bama).
• They used more "heavy" formations (i.e. 2 TE sets)
• McCarron was very effective on short an intermediate routes when throwing. He played within the offense and let the game come to him (he played like a classic 'West Coast' QB like a Montana).
• The CPU called very few four vert plays
• (As a side note, with every team set at 50/50, it seemed like there were fewer BIG upsets and lopsided matchups seemed to result in more lopsided results...which is good....VERY VERY small sample size)

With the 80/20 split (this time I played against 'Bama using A&M)

• Most runs were draws or read options (out of shotgun)
• Bama ran nearly every play out of the shotgun or 3-4 wide sets
• They ran a ton of 4-vert plays
• McCarron threw deep often, moved well in the pocket, and was quite aggressive (think Brett Favre)

I have not tried a 20/80 split.


I think the 80/20 setup would be awesome against really good spread teams....however, when playing against run heavy pro-style teams, I don't think they will play like themselves (like my trials against Alabama). Against crappy opponents, I think all of the deep throws could come back to haunt the CPU QB (but have not tested).

I may stick with the 50/50 split for a while; but I think these coaching sliders can yield some fruit for us if we can "crack the code"

[Chedapalooza]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

You have been trying the same thing I hit on and I have seen the same sort of effects. We agree on the defensive aggressiveness slider; the game plays much better there. However, the offensive aggressiveness being so high can be problematic when going against more run oriented (non-triple option) teams. I had noticed that nearly every coach in default rosters have more aggressive offensive tendencies. So, as an experiment, I changed every team to have a 50/50 offensive aggression (with defensive aggressiveness at lower levels). Following your post, I tried a game using the 80/20 split. My observations: With 50/50 offensive aggressiveness (using Va Tech vs. Alabama): Bama ran the ball up the gut and off-tackle more than I ever have seen (they played like 'Bama). They used more "heavy" formations (i.e. 2 TE sets) McCarron was very effective on short an intermediate routes when throwing. He played within the offense and let the game come to him (he played like a classic 'West Coast' QB like a Montana). The CPU called very few four vert plays (As a side note, with every team set at 50/50, it seemed like there were fewer BIG upsets and lopsided matchups seemed to result in more lopsided results...which is good....VERY VERY small sample size) With the 80/20 split (this time I played against 'Bama using A&M) Most runs were draws or read options (out of shotgun) Bama ran nearly every play out of the shotgun or 3-4 wide sets They ran a ton of 4-vert plays McCarron threw deep often, moved well in the pocket, and was quite aggressive (think Brett Favre) I have not tried a 20/80 split. I think the 80/20 setup would be awesome against really good spread teams....however, when playing against run heavy pro-style teams, I don't think they will play like themselves (like my trials against Alabama). Against crappy opponents, I think all of the deep throws could come back to haunt the CPU QB (but have not tested). I may stick with the 50/50 split for a while; but I think these coaching sliders can yield some fruit for us if we can "crack the code"

Ill have to check this out. I liked the way Bama played with 85/15 on offense personally. I love seeing the QB have presence and awareness in the pocket. I felt like they used a wide variety of formations and didnt see many 4 verts called. This was against Georgia in the SEC champ.

If what you're saying hold true tho- perhaps that will allow us to use a variety of settings that work for certain types of teams. Ie- west coast 50/50
spread - 85/15

Balanced 75/25

A team like army for example would probably fall in 85/15 bc they have to play aggressive and deliberate/purposeful football to execute those types of plays.

A team like Uconn- more middle of the road- would benefit from a 75/25 split bc they like to take their shots but also control the ball when the need to/want to.

The issue with different settings for offense then becomes the matchup against defense. For example, any team set to offense 85/15 will have a fighting Chance against a defense set to 15/85
But an offense set to 50/50 would not function against a defense set to 15/85, they would get stuffed in the run and have zero time to throw against that defense.

The best game I saw last Night was offense: 85/15 versus defense 15/85

[Chedapalooza]

I guess the larger question at hand is:

Do we want to set all teams the same? Or should certain play books / styles have certain settings?

I believe that there will be disadvantages to any offense set lower than 85/15, as the players for the less aggressive offense will just play too poorly to keep the game competitive. That's my concern and was evidenced in a few games last night. Ohio state was 85/15. Northwestern was. 75/25
Both defesnse were set to 20/80.

Ohio state had 303 rushing yards
Northwestern had 90 ( season avg was 250 something)

The offense for northwestern was clearly not as precise and efficient as OSU

Many plays for loss and many sacks bc the o line looked clueless and the wr weren't getting open fast enough. This was in big 10 champ game and I controlled both offenses In order to test this

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chedapalooza

I guess the larger question at hand is: Do we want to set all teams the same? Or should certain play books / styles have certain settings? I believe that there will be disadvantages to any offense set lower than 85/15, as the players for the less aggressive offense will just play too poorly to keep the game competitive. That's my concern and was evidenced in a few games last night. Ohio state was 85/15. Northwestern was. 75/25 Both defesnse were set to 20/80. Ohio state had 303 rushing yards Northwestern had 90 ( season avg was 250 something) The offense for northwestern was clearly not as precise and efficient as OSU Many plays for loss and many sacks bc the o line looked clueless and the wr weren't getting open fast enough. This was in big 10 champ game and I controlled both offenses In order to test this

I'm in the same mindset, Cheda. 85/15 is key. Anything lower, from what I can tell, results back to mundane football. Needs more testing though.

I did see the DB glitch for the first time EVER with my varsity/heisman sliders - and it wasn't for the CPU; it was for my DB and my FS. I did have aggr/cons set for 55/45 for my defense. This didn't happen in my 5 games late last night with the setting on 85/15 for CPU offense.

More testing. Cheda, if you'd like to join the slider theory thread - we are testing some of this stuff tonight. I'll be on twitch in a bout an hour too.

[JoshC1977]

I wish I had a week off of work to play around with this

I will say this though, a 50/50 split does not turn an offense into a passive group, they still will take their shots. What it DOES do is make them more consistent moving the ball and teams that are run-oriented will actually stick to the run. WRs will catch short passes, but with the right slider settings (i.e. a good RBA) can break them into long gains (which is what you see in CFB).

I also played against Louisville (I was Va Tech) using the 50/50 arrangement. Bridgewater shredded me with short to intermediate passes all game and their running backs (Perry in particular) pounded my defense. At one moment, I was getting ready to stop the run on a 2nd and 5 and predicted they would run it again (as they had consistently up to that point). I hit run commit, Bridgewater handed it off, "No wait, it's a PA".....he hit his WR in stride for a long bomb TD. It was the most frustratingly gratifying moment I have had in a football game in a long time. I managed to pull out a 51-45 shootout win...but they were an absolute bear.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

I wish I had a week off of work to play around with this I will say this though, a 50/50 split does not turn an offense into a passive group, they still will take their shots. What it DOES do is make them more consistent moving the ball and teams that are run-oriented will actually stick to the run. WRs will catch short passes, but with the right slider settings (i.e. a good RBA) can break them into long gains (which is what you see in CFB). I also played against Louisville (I was Va Tech) using the 50/50 arrangement. Bridgewater shredded me with short to intermediate passes all game and their running backs (Perry in particular) pounded my defense. At one moment, I was getting ready to stop the run on a 2nd and 5 and predicted they would run it again (as they had consistently up to that point). I hit run commit, Bridgewater handed it off, "No wait, it's a PA".....he hit his WR in stride for a long bomb TD. It was the most frustratingly gratifying moment I have had in a football game in a long time. I managed to pull out a 51-45 shootout win...but they were an absolute bear.

I'm open to try it some more - what are your user's aggression settings?

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

I'm open to try it some more - what are your user's aggression settings?

User and CPU offense settings are 50/50. Defense settings are using Oraeon's original principle of decreasing defensive aggressiveness (from the default settings) by 20 (to the left).