If the Super Bowl was tomorrow what current QB would you have on your team?

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

That's an interesting defense because it's exactly why putting too much weight on one player (QBs) winning or losing doesn't make any sense. Do you defend Peyton or Rivers (thinking the other thread here) for the times they put their teams in optimal position but were failed by their defenses?

Absolutely. But in Peyton's case, let's be honest here, when you look over the great majority of times that he lost a playoff game it wasn't because his defense blew it at the end. It's because he couldn't stop throwing picks at the wrong time, or he failed to be accurate when a pivotal play was needed. He's had some serious dog games in the playoffs and a lot of it was just the fact that he didn't show up.

The year the Colts won the Super Bowl, look at the Wild Card and the Divisional Playoff he had... he had 3 bad picks against the Chiefs, and was even worse against the Ravens the following week with two more. Luckily, the Colts defense was so good that year that his usual playoff mistakes didn't kill them.

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

I know you're arguing against Brady being a "system QB" and I agree, he's clearly more than that. But you're also choosing Brady because of his rings which came with great team efforts including defensive play and special teams.

I'm choosing Brady because he has performed better in this situation than the other guys even if you substracted rings or defensive play. No matter how your defense plays, you still have to make the right reads and protect the ball. Brady has done that better than the other guys over the course of his career in the big games, that's why I choose Brady.

Had Brady lost all of those games, I could still go back and look at most of his performances and say "You know, he played well in those games". With Peyton, you can't say that. In a number of his losses he played poorly, and in some of his wins, he played poorly...

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

I have no argument for anyone who wants to take Brady (or Ben for that matter) because he does have proven success in the playoffs and SB. But I pick Manning because in my opinion he's a better QB, and I know Brady, Ben, and Eli didn't win those games alone. I think if Peyton was on any of those teams he would've won too... and if they were on many of the Colts teams that got Peyton the "choker" label before he got a ring, they would've lost too.

Peyton has historically put up better numbers in the regular season. Better QB? That's debatable. Just like you say it's not all about rings (which I agree with) it's not all about numbers either. And quite frankly, Peyton doesn't have a stellar track record in big games. A regular season MVP is nice, but I want the guy that's going to perform like an MVP in the postseason.

[mkharsh33]

Big Ben... the guy just finds a way to win...he's already got 2 rings, and I believe he'll add to that collection.

[da ThRONe]

I think P.Manning has been in the best position to be sucessful offensively than any other QB's this era of QB's.

[NovaStar]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Absolutely. But in Peyton's case, let's be honest here, when you look over the great majority of times that he lost a playoff game it wasn't because his defense blew it at the end. It's because he couldn't stop throwing picks at the wrong time, or he failed to be accurate when a pivotal play was needed. He's had some serious dog games in the playoffs and a lot of it was just the fact that he didn't show up. The year the Colts won the Super Bowl, look at the Wild Card and the Divisional Playoff he had... he had 3 bad picks against the Chiefs, and was even worse against the Ravens the following week with two more. Luckily, the Colts defense was so good that year that his usual playoff mistakes didn't kill them. I'm choosing Brady because he has performed better in this situation than the other guys even if you substracted rings or defensive play. No matter how your defense plays, you still have to make the right reads and protect the ball. Brady has done that better than the other guys over the course of his career in the big games, that's why I choose Brady. Had Brady lost all of those games, I could still go back and look at most of his performances and say "You know, he played well in those games". With Peyton, you can't say that. In a number of his losses he played poorly, and in some of his wins, he played poorly... Peyton has historically put up better numbers in the regular season. Better QB? That's debatable. Just like you say it's not all about rings (which I agree with) it's not all about numbers either. And quite frankly, Peyton doesn't have a stellar track record in big games. A regular season MVP is nice, but I want the guy that's going to perform like an MVP in the postseason.

Great post! I agree wholeheartedly. Peyton has never performed (consistently) that well in the playoffs, even the year they won it all, they won in spite of him not because of him (check playoff stats). There is a reason for this, Peyton is a read and react qb that can't play in the moment, Brady and Big Ben are qb's that can play in the moment. Another way of saying this is they raise their level come playoff time. Peyton stats compared from regular season to playoffs is lowered (he avg at best in the playoffs, compared to Brady's playoff stats he is down right pathetic), it is his makeup. I like him, but if he does not win another superbowl he should never even be mentioned with the all time sb winning qb's. He has to win another one!

To me this question isn't even debatable. Brady is the coolest (under pressure) illest qb playing. He has been to Four supebowls and has won 3. And contrary to all the hatahs, he did drive his team up against the most ferocious rush any qb has face since the 85 bears. If you put Peyton in that situation, where he is getting hit non stop, it is happy feet, turnover time. Remember, it took a miracle play for the G-Men to win that game (I am a Giants fan so I will take it).

Big Ben needs to win one more, then I will give it to him as well. He does have what it takes, so far.

[CW McGraw]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I disagree considering two factors: 1. The Giants Pass rush was ferocious. 2. The Patriots had injury issues on the offensive line, and Brady was on his butt all game long, yet never threw a pick and put up solid enough numbers that had the Pats won he more than likely would've been the MVP. And that brings me to a third point... Actually, we do know for a fact that Brady can. He did that in Super Bowl 42, in the final minutes with a very poised drive that put the Patriots ahead 14-10. There was nothing he could do about the defense then melting down to let the Giants score at the end.

Cool, but if we're going to fellate Brady and crown him for leading 20 yard FG drives, then we have to criticize him for leading his offense to their worst performance all season long in the most important game of his life. I'm not going to claim that the Super Bowl loss was all Brady's fault. It wasn't, but I've never been willing to give him full credit for putting the greatest kicker of all time in FG range. If people want to praise him for his team's accomplishments, fine by me, but I better hear those people criticizing him for being a part of the most epic chokejob in the history of sports.

Did Brady play a good statistical? Sorta. He threw nearly 50 times and couldn't get to 300 yards. To be honest, Wes Welker played a better game. He quietly tied the Super Bowl record for reception, but history will probably forget that. Brady didn't make any major mistakes, which, in a close defensive battle like that Super Bowl was, should have been enough to win, but they scored twenty points less than their season average. Once again, when the same people that say Brady was amazing for winning his first three Super Bowls weep to me about how it wasn't his fault, I respond with some apprehension.

Leading a TD drive with seven minutes left in the game is much easier than leading a TD drive with two and half minutes left. Ben's last SB drive was the stuff of legends. Brady's first Super Bowl drive was by no means easy, but Ben's drive was much better.

[z Revis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pacman83

That 'crap' is the NFL...When someone else can step in and do just as good...then it is a successful system...I mean, yea every QB is in a system, but do THEY make it successful, or does it make them? All the QBs you named prolly would suck on a new offense...even Farve, but the greats adjust and make it work for them. I really think Brady is a good QB, but personally, i think he's overhyped because of that 'system'. BTW...i dont hate the Pats or Brady. Not at all blinded by hate or love.

I didn't see Cassell throw 50 TD's or even lead the Patriots to the Playoffs last year. Granted I don't think Brady would've had another 50 TD/16-0 season in 2008, but still.. Cassell came in and won 5 less games, didn't take the Pats to the Playoffs, and wasn't nearly as good statistically as Brady was in 2007. Plus, Cassell actually seems to be doing fine in KC.. surprisingly his numbers aren't too shabby for a 1-7 football team.

[z Revis]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Absolutely. But in Peyton's case, let's be honest here, when you look over the great majority of times that he lost a playoff game it wasn't because his defense blew it at the end. It's because he couldn't stop throwing picks at the wrong time, or he failed to be accurate when a pivotal play was needed. He's had some serious dog games in the playoffs and a lot of it was just the fact that he didn't show up. The year the Colts won the Super Bowl, look at the Wild Card and the Divisional Playoff he had... he had 3 bad picks against the Chiefs, and was even worse against the Ravens the following week with two more. Luckily, the Colts defense was so good that year that his usual playoff mistakes didn't kill them. I'm choosing Brady because he has performed better in this situation than the other guys even if you substracted rings or defensive play. No matter how your defense plays, you still have to make the right reads and protect the ball. Brady has done that better than the other guys over the course of his career in the big games, that's why I choose Brady. Had Brady lost all of those games, I could still go back and look at most of his performances and say "You know, he played well in those games". With Peyton, you can't say that. In a number of his losses he played poorly, and in some of his wins, he played poorly... Peyton has historically put up better numbers in the regular season. Better QB? That's debatable. Just like you say it's not all about rings (which I agree with) it's not all about numbers either. And quite frankly, Peyton doesn't have a stellar track record in big games. A regular season MVP is nice, but I want the guy that's going to perform like an MVP in the postseason.

In some cases, the Colts defense has blown it in the end, particularly last years Playoff game. I think Peyton's Playoff success, or lack there of, was more of a combination of things. Defense playing poorly at the wrong time, Peyton playing poorly at the wrong time, and/or just playing a very very good team. Let's not forget that Peyton played the eventual SB champs 3 straight years(Pats twice and Steelers). There have been only two Playoff games that I can remember where the Colts played well in all 3 phases. We rarely have a team win or even a team loss in the Post Season. But that's what happens in the Playoffs, you need all three phases to come up big in order to go deep into the Post Season and we haven't done that.

[z Revis]

Quote: Originally Posted by NovaStar

Great post! I agree wholeheartedly. Peyton has never performed (consistently) that well in the playoffs, even the year they won it all, they won in spite of him not because of him (check playoff stats).

I don't think it's fair to say they won in spite of him. That might be stretching it. He was almost the sole reason we won that AFC Championship game, coming back down 21 to tie it and leading us on a game winning drive late into the 4th quarter to seal the win for us.