Micheal Vick or Eli Manning Who's a better overall #1?

[ryan36]

Well, I think maybe wrongly, and definitely arguably, that Rivers is better than Manning.

But no doubt Eli has won something Vick has not.

And playmaker or not, a lot of quarterbacks even in "vertical" offenses still just need to routinely complete 7 yard passes.

Eli and Vick were both inconsistent. I'm relatively confident in asserting that Mora/Knapp ruined Vick's development for 3 years. Knapp's offense must pretty complicated because nobody got it with the 3 teams he tried to coordinate, LOL

[JBH3]

Man...Vick is a hot topic this offseason.

Voted for Eli because at this point it is pointless to imagine what Vick "would have" done had he not effed up his career. Eli, regardless of how his D played, willed his team to victory in the SB defeat of the Patriots...he is the better QB (encompassing throwing skills, leadership, and decision making), and the better overall #1.

I can w/o a doubt say Mick Vick was the better scrambler though.

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by poopydude

I believe that Michael Vick (pre dog fighting charges) was a better draft pick than Eli Manning in terms of pre draft hype. Notice i said Pick i never said better player and there is a difference which i will explain now. When Eli manning was drafted he was projected to be as good or even better than his older brother Peyton. That was and will never be the case Eli Lacks many of the intangibles that Manning the older posses such as the ability to fit the ball into tight windows, recognizing pretty much any defensive scheme and overall I.Q due to these reasons while yes Eli has succeeded in the NFL by winning a super bowl and posting above average stats for a QB he will never live up to what he was originally thought to be. Michael Vick before he got arrested lived up to what was projected of him. Scouts said he would be a dominate running QB with a cannon arm and he was exactly that. In terms of living up to Hype Vick has out done Manning. Notice i have never said that Michael Vick is better overall player i am though saying that vick is the better pick because he lived up to what was expected from him (pre dog charges) while Eli so far has not.

Ok, now when it comes to matching expectations this could be looked at a couple of ways. Eli's expectations were to be as good as peyton plus all other expectations inherant with being a qb drafted 1st overall, right.

first, matching peyton, statistically he has not even come close but then again the giants like to spend money on both sides of the ball rather than just trying to aquire more weapons on offense so their qb can rack up stats. In terms of playoff success he has done every bit as much as peyton had by this point in his career. While he may not be quite the qb that peyton he is still in that second tier of starting qbs just below the top 2-3. You may say that peyton has been hurt by a lack of defense but that lack of defense was neccesary to spend that much money on offense. Eli has done well with what he has had. I would say he fell moderately below expectations here but nowhere near a complete failure.

Vicks expectations beyond those associated with the draft pick were to revolutionize the qb position and change the game of football. Has their been a sudden movement toward qbs of vick's skillset due to his "tremendous success" in the league? Has he in any way changed the game of football other than being an example for roger goddell to use as a bad character player? I doubt that is what people had in mind when they talked about him changing the game.

Now the expectations of a qb drafted that high:
Bring regular season success. The qiants have, while playing in a division often called the toughest in pro football have still been in the playoffs more often than not. Vick's on the other hand made the playoffs 2 out of 6 years with the falcons. Matching up their years in the league (vicks 1st to eli's 1st, 2nd to 2nd, etc) Eli has won a higher percentage of his games and has provided his team with more yards even if you count vicks rushing yards eli has beaten him every time. He has also contributed more touchdowns every year. I would say in terms of meeting these expectations eli wins.

Bring postseason success. They are both .500 as starting qbs in the playoffs, eli is 4-4 to vicks 2-2. Eli however has the ring so this one goes to him without question.

Be a starter/leader/face of your franchise for the next 10-15 years. Eli has not done this yet but there is no reason to doubt that he will. Vick has failed in this regard pretty misserably. I would say this one goes to eli as well.

Be the best qb in the draft class. Eli is debatable, rivers has had success in san diego and has been a good qb and ben has 2 rings. It is a pretty close call. Vick is nowhere near the best from his class, that would be drew brees without question.

I would have to say that both in terms of meeting their individual expectations and in terms of meeting the expectations of a qb drafted 1st overall eli has been a way better pick.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Speedy

Cebby's points are valid, BK. You can't deny the fact that Vick is simply more of a playmaker than Eli is so if there is no talent, especially @ receiver or the OL, I would rather have Vick. Atlanta's defense during Vick's tenure was average to mediocre compared to the D's Spagnulo rolled out with Eli so the team records you're using to back your point don't mean anything. The best year Atlanta had on defense in terms of total yards given up was 14th in '04...every other year had them in the bottom 10.

I disagree. Because he can run doesn't make him more of a playmaker. At some point QB's have to make plays down the field in the pass game. Vick never was able to do this consistently.

You can blame the defense, the players around him, but when it comes down to brass tacks, Vick as his career progressed never got better and for long stretches of time, simply played poorly.

The excuses don't hide the fact he simply was not a very good QB his last couple of seasons in Atlanta once NFL defenses had him figured out. Running the football doesn't make you a playmaker, if it did, Bobby Douglass would have had a better career.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by poopydude

i said as good as or better. it was predicted that eli would be doing much more than he is now

Who said this? Who predicted Eli to be as good or better than Peyton? Eli won a title early in his career, who predicted that?

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

Who said this? Who predicted Eli to be as good or better than Peyton? Eli won a title early in his career, who predicted that?

I don't know that anyone predicted he'd win a title earlier in his career, but many analysts said they thought Eli could be even better than Peyton and at least as good. Now, this was all early on during the hype-train that was his draft, so take that for what it's worth.

[Primerica]

Quote: Originally Posted by pitchingcoach36

Well, I think maybe wrongly, and definitely arguably, that Rivers is better than Manning. But no doubt Eli has won something Vick has not. And playmaker or not, a lot of quarterbacks even in "vertical" offenses still just need to routinely complete 7 yard passes. Eli and Vick were both inconsistent. I'm relatively confident in asserting that Mora/Knapp ruined Vick's development for 3 years. Knapp's offense must pretty complicated because nobody got it with the 3 teams he tried to coordinate, LOL

We Falcons fans tried warning you guys about Mora Jr. Some of ya'll were asking for it. Saying it was Vick's fault when we said Vick didn't respect Mora which is true but Knapp and Mora can't coach for s**t.

[Dawkinseffect]

I can't believe there is even a thread/poll for this. Vick was out of football for 2 seasons and in jail. Eli won a Superbowl. I think we all know who had a better career at the moment.