Raw 03/12/12 - Talking,music,more talking,more music,movie trailer,wrestling maybe

[rangerrick012]

Quote: Originally Posted by DonkeyJote

CM Punk and Jericho was doing okay, but throwing the alcohol thing in there is just weird, to me. CM Punk losing is going to drive him to drink? Really? Because he's never lost the title before?

Yeah he's lost the title before, but you have to look at it like this - Punk's finally earned what he wanted for so many years and become 'the guy' in the company, i.e. the "Best in the World". If Jericho beats him and takes that away from him, it would be a huge blow, even bigger than any loss he's had before, because it'd be on the grandest stage and after he went through so much to get the title. So for kayfabe purposes, it'd probably be the toughest loss of his career and make him doubt himself more than ever.

It's a great part to add to the storyline and give Punk some actual dimensions as a character rather than simply being a guy who runs around yelling 'best in the world' at the top of his lungs, which is what he's become (one dimensional) the past few months.

[BDKiiing]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

Yeah he's lost the title before, but you have to look at it like this - Punk's finally earned what he wanted for so many years and become 'the guy' in the company, i.e. the "Best in the World". If Jericho beats him and takes that away from him, it would be a huge blow, even bigger than any loss he's had before, because it'd be on the grandest stage and after he went through so much to get the title. So for kayfabe purposes, it'd probably be the toughest loss of his career and make him doubt himself more than ever. It's a great part to add to the storyline and give Punk some actual dimensions as a character rather than simply being a guy who runs around yelling 'best in the world' at the top of his lungs, which is what he's become (one dimensional) the past few months.

And the fact that the story is true adds to it...

[DonkeyJote]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

Yeah he's lost the title before, but you have to look at it like this - Punk's finally earned what he wanted for so many years and become 'the guy' in the company, i.e. the "Best in the World". If Jericho beats him and takes that away from him, it would be a huge blow, even bigger than any loss he's had before, because it'd be on the grandest stage and after he went through so much to get the title. So for kayfabe purposes, it'd probably be the toughest loss of his career and make him doubt himself more than ever. It's a great part to add to the storyline and give Punk some actual dimensions as a character rather than simply being a guy who runs around yelling 'best in the world' at the top of his lungs, which is what he's become (one dimensional) the past few months.

How is it different than when he won the championship for the first time, when he had finally achieved that goal of being WWE Champion? It's just too far-fetched for me. Not to mention, that's not how alcoholism works at all. Just because you're father was an alcoholic, doesn't mean you are already "craving" it if you have never had it yourself - having a gene for alcoholism doesn't make you an alcoholic. I don't mind bringing Punk's dad into it, but the notion of "I'm going to beat you, and it's going to force you to drink" is just way too farfetched for me, and actually makes the feud less interesting. It's an eye roller now. If John Cena loses the "Biggest Wrestlemania Match of All Time," is he going to resort to shooting heroin now?

[rangerrick012]

Agree to disagree. Of course we on here know it's unlikely that Punk will start drinking, but to the average (read: non-internet) fan it's a great storyline device to get behind Punk and root for him against Jericho. I'm sure they will flesh it out more in the coming weeks and I don't see the problem with using a real part of Punk's Straight Edge lifestyle to help for a storyline.

And about it being farfetched - it is wrestling after all. You gotta suspend your disbelief somewhat to have the most fun IMO.

[TheMatrix31]

Rick and I don't agree that often, but he's spot-on here.

[simgamer0005]

Quote: Originally Posted by DonkeyJote

How is it different than when he won the championship for the first time, when he had finally achieved that goal of being WWE Champion? It's just too far-fetched for me. Not to mention, that's not how alcoholism works at all. Just because you're father was an alcoholic, doesn't mean you are already "craving" it if you have never had it yourself - having a gene for alcoholism doesn't make you an alcoholic.

See but this is the genius of Y2J, the fact that his promo about Punk made you re-evaluate what you thought about alcoholism and how you thought it worked. like when Y2J said alcoholism is in Punk's genes, like it's a part of him somehow, genetically, psychotically passed down from father to son, or even just simply based on the memory Punk had of seeing his dad be an alcoholic, and the fact that it shaped his life, to a point to where Punk had it his shtick to jam straight edge down everyones throat. go back and think to when the SES was formed and how strange it sounded at first. it made us question about how we look at alcohol smoking or anything that punk didn't do to make him straight edge and Punk did it in a way that wasn't like some nanny state way, but tried to make it cool. and after a few weeks, SES became the best stable on Smackdown by a mile. Punk brought people out shaved their head to signify that they were straight edge. Punk helped Luke Gallows overcome his addictions and became straight edge. And then Serena came along. And don't you remember that one time where Serena relapsed and Punk saw her drinking at a bar. Even a member of Punk's SES went to the bar and started drinking after pledging to be straight edge. The point is that this was Punk's thing and no one until Y2J really called Punk on it.

it's true that just because you're father was an alcoholic, doesn't mean you are already "craving" it if you have never had it yourself. this is a good view to have so that negative cycles don't have to be passed on generation to generation. and sure having a gene for alcoholism doesn't make you an alcoholic. Again this is true, but what Jericho said was to get into the psychology of Punk and said that to explain why Jericho thinks he is a fraud. He challenged the essence of who Punk is. Now if it's true that Punk's dad was an alcoholic, think about how that shaped who Punk became, and what he stood for. And sure Punk deserves credit for not falling down that same road as his dad, but Jericho looked deeper and challenged what we generally accepted to be true. and that is why Y2J is such a great heel, because he's willing to do what ever it takes to make someone question themselves to try to get the upper hand. and just that that promo made you post about it.

Quote: Originally Posted by DonkeyJote

I don't mind bringing Punk's dad into it, but the notion of "I'm going to beat you, and it's going to force you to drink" is just way too farfetched for me, and actually makes the feud less interesting. It's an eye roller now. If John Cena loses the "Biggest Wrestlemania Match of All Time," is he going to resort to shooting heroin now?

Yeah it is far-fetched, but that's what wrestling is supposed to do, wow you, entertain you with surprises. It was a great promo to me by Y2J because he made us envision Punk drowning himself in his sorrows after losing to Jericho at WM, an action that is the antithesis of Punk's motto of a straight edge lifestyle. and look at Punk's expression after Jericho said that.

[kingkilla56]

I missed the Basic Thugganomics comeback?


NONONOOOOOOOOO!!!!

His rap was corny but he burned the Rock big time son. Woah

[TracerBullet]

In all honesty, I was actually more excited to hear the Basic Thuganomics song more so than Cena rap.