Madden NFL 13 News Post

OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

01:08 PM - August 16, 2012 by RaychelSnr

The Madden NFL 13 demo is out and our staff has some impressions of this year's Madden to share in our traditional roundtable format. Is Madden going to be worth $60 this year on gameplay and presentation alone? Read on to find out our opinion on the matter.

Read More - OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

Game: Madden NFL 13Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii U / Xbox 360Votes for game: 77 - View All

Madden NFL 13 Videos

Member Comments

# 101 TombSong @ 08/17/12 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supermanemblem


	The original Madden on Sega Genesis would be unplayable for 99% of y'all. We had three buttons to work with and we still had super LBs/DBs and nano blitzes, etc. No sports game is going to be perfect nor will it represent the sport with pinpoint accuracy. Ever. Ain't going to happen.

By today's standards it would be unplayable. For that time that was all we had so we were for the most part content. Times have changed. 2k5 and 2k8 raised the bar for football standards and Madden has STILL not caught up.

No on is expecting for perfection. We ARE looking for better than what we have had. The IE engine is a good idea with a bad start. Its not garbage, and it has potential. It just needs to be tweaked/cleaned up. Its new right now so some of you this week are accepting of the flaws but lets hear from you 4 weeks from now after your 500th viewing of your HB falling down simply because he touched a offensive lineman.

# 102 ryan36 @ 08/17/12 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	I don't understand the "same old Madden" criticism levied by many in the article when viewed in the light of "it's a sports video game". What other sports video games series are consistently knocked with this criticism? Was NBA2K12 knocked for being very similar to NBA2K11? Has THQ and Yukes ever been knocked for basically releasing the same gameplay every year with the WWE (formerly Smackdown vs RAW) series? Has The Show ever been knocked for being simply an evolutionary step of its previous iteration? Did anyone criticize Forza Motorsport 4 for being fundamentally the same driving simulator as its predecessor? My point is that it's a fair criticism to apply to all those games, but I don't hear it nearly as much for those as I do for EA football. Sports video games are by their nature evolutionary and not revolutionary; I don't understand why anyone would go into a sports game anymore expecting to have their socks knocked off by something that plays completely differently than the year before it. That's not how these games are built, and everyone who is discerning enough about sports games to join a sports video game message board - let alone be a credited producer of content for one - should know that. Heck, it goes beyond sports video games to video games in general. Was anyone knocking Modern Warfare 3 for having the exact same controls and exact same gameplay as Modern Warfare 2? Did anyone ever knock the Rock Band games for having the same rhythm-matching gameplay as each of their predecessors? In my opinion, the impressions offered in the article should have been much better phrased and much more detailed. We all know we are getting a Madden football game. There are certain implications that come with that that everyone knows. Tell us what the new issues are, tell us what legacy issues have and haven't been addressed, tell us what the game actually does well and doesn't do well. To stand behind the opinion of "it's Madden; you like it or you don't" - peppering that opinion with high-level statements such as "legacy issues" without offering any specifics as to what they are, what was attempted by the team to address them, how those changes have affected gameplay, etc. - isn't exactly being bold; that's not an interesting opinion in the context of a sports video game special interest web page, everyone who views this site already knows that much. The closest we got to that in this article were the opinions offered by Jayson Young and Kenny Glover, and I don't feel like they necessarily offered balanced opinions. To be specific, I find it disappointing that no one got into some of the specifics in the Madden demo that legitimately help the series - the new passing mechanics from NCAA (having been better tuned), the excellent crowd audio, how fluid the game is, the general responsiveness of the controls (particularly compared to NCAA Football 13 retail), any mention of the new Kinect preplay controls whatsoever, and so on. From a journalistic standpoint, I don't see how you can talk about the Madden NFL 13 demo without so much as mentioning any of these things. For a website "dedicated to sports gaming", this impressions article simply could and should have been much better.

Well, the reason you don't see that criticism is because those games you mention are generally regarded as "good"...

They don't NEED to reinvent themselves.

# 103 Smoke6 @ 08/17/12 12:58 PM

I like it, its great and has great potential, but that potential needs to be seen throughout the whole year. Post game support is a must as tuned updates were non existent and no one mentioned a darn thing about what happened to them.

One thing we need here is a Round-table discussion with the devs NOW, not next year in Feb and Apr.

Running animations need to be tuned with some sort of foot planting/weight/ and physics momentum. Features need to added and kept uptown date and not missing from previous years.

Pre play menus are lagging but hopefully that's resolved I the retail version, but I want yr round support and now that there is no more NCAA, that team just got bigger so more issues should be resolved by next.madden.

# 104 ryan36 @ 08/17/12 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comen


	And what makes me laugh even more is that they (ea) will keep advertising the game as if it is some revelation or marvel!! Have you looked at their site? "The fans have spoken." What a joke!! These guys running the show over there (at ea) just have no clue how to create a solid game! And they either must be idiots or flat out liars if they say this game is good!! I dont know why the NFL allows this but it needs to STOP!! There needs to be some kind of petition sent to the NFL to stop this!!

Calling devs idiots and liars can get you banned...

# 105 CM Hooe @ 08/17/12 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan36


	Well, the reason you don't see that criticism is because those games you mention are generally regarded as "good"... They don't NEED to reinvent themselves.

But Madden is also a "good" game by the majority of subjective standards.

Even OS' more discerning critical opinion hasn't scored a console release Madden game lower than a 7.5 out of 10, and it's metacritic ratings have consistently fallen right around the 80 range. Me personally, I've found each Madden significantly better than the previous one, with admission that any next-gen Madden games before Madden 09 weren't really worth playing.

But to the point, Madden hasn't exactly reinvented itself either. Simulation sports games can't really, they are consistently bound by the rules and laws of the sport they are attempting to simulate.

# 106 Tyrant8RDFL @ 08/17/12 01:42 PM

Im with the OS round table. We see things eye to eye here

# 107 raguel @ 08/17/12 01:46 PM

No one else has noticed how flaky man coverage gets when the cpu calls no huddle?

# 108 SFNiner @ 08/17/12 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogslax41


	Aww man you can't cut Brooksy. He was one that I hated to see the Bengals get rid of. I knew he was going to turn into a contributor. Not a pro bowler by any stretch but man I loved watching him thump. But I hear you on that. I just recently, couple years ago, stopped putting myself in my franchise or else I would probably be right there with you.

Actually wasnt going to cut him this time. Was gonna keep him as a backup/ST player. Just for depth. But still....Kinda suck not being able to do that now.

# 109 CM Hooe @ 08/17/12 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat Patriot


	The whole Madden is the same thing seemed to be with Madden NFL 06-08 because they were all bad, and then it lingered because either people gave up and now don't know what they are talking about or they simply are tired of the same old legacy issues. To the Bold: There are ways to reinvent the games of the Madden series. For example, take advantage of the buttons we have on current consoles. 2K's shot stick could be an example. If EA implementing the Vision Cone was an example of reinventing the game (but they didn't even try to improve it or make sure it was usable). I remember how one guy said they should use the right stick as a way to aim then pull the RT/pull R2 to throw. That's an example of reinventing.

Putting passing on the right stick and ditching icon passing would be reinventing the game, yes.

The vision cone, however, didn't reinvent how one played the game; it was a redundant command that forced me to confirm something my brain had already processed, that being that I the user see a guy open. I shouldn't have to confirm that he's open and that I'd like to throw to him to throw him the ball. That half second is the difference between a sack and a first down.

If pre-snap reads and identifying a hot / primary receiver based on information gathered before the snap were more important in Madden, then I could see some form of the cone coming back and being a good gameplay mechanic, but there aren't enough ways to gather a tell from a coverage pre-snap, there aren't defensive tendencies that we can scout from how the AI plays with which to gather these tells, and there aren't enough options for the defensive playcaller - user or AI - to disguise his coverage.

I think that, to the end of limiting the effectiveness of the passing game, the dimming receiver icons is a much better mechanic, as it passively interferes with the user's ability to succeed at passing, rather than actively as the cone did.

All my opinion, of course.

# 110 JBH3 @ 08/17/12 02:08 PM

I think the presentation of Naantz/Simms was great, but call me crazy if the gameplay just felt like typical/normal Madden from yesteryear.... No?

I played as San Fran on default All-Pro.

# 111 roadman @ 08/17/12 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBH3


	I think the presentation of Naantz/Simms was great, but call me crazy if the gameplay just felt like typical/normal Madden from yesteryear.... No? I played as San Fran on default All-Pro.

Not sure how it could have. New pass trajectories, new catching animations, infinity engine and read n react defense.

# 112 swac07 @ 08/17/12 02:34 PM

I totally agree with the article...great write up

# 113 Eski33 @ 08/17/12 02:40 PM

The demo is fun and the visuals, especially the fields compared to NCAA, look great.

The game feels familiar but so does every other title on the market. I withhold my trie judgment until I can play the full release next Friday.

# 114 ODogg @ 08/17/12 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurdinator


	The Camera view during the extra point is comic. Welcome back to the 90's!!!! It is such an arcade style look with lack of depth perspective or realism.Poor, very poor....

Actually it's a very realistic looking camera angle in regards to what is shown on TV. I wish they'd adopt this for NCAA, looks awesome IMO

# 115 btemp @ 08/17/12 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBH3


	I think the presentation of Naantz/Simms was great, but call me crazy if the gameplay just felt like typical/normal Madden from yesteryear.... No? I played as San Fran on default All-Pro.

+1.

Quote:


	Not sure how it could have. New pass trajectories, new catching animations, infinity engine and read n react defense.

These are largely cosmetic. Pass trajectories get rid of the occasional knockdown by an LB, catching animations have very little effect on the game, IMO the infinity engine at this point changes very little how the game is played, and "read and react defence" (hilarious marketing) not only makes passing easier but is again, like everything else, a TWEAK.

# 116 roadman @ 08/17/12 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btemp


	+1. These are largely cosmetic. Pass trajectories get rid of the occasional knockdown by an LB, catching animations have very little effect on the game, IMO the infinity engine at this point changes very little how the game is played, and "read and react defence" (hilarious marketing) not only makes passing easier but is again, like everything else, a TWEAK.

No problem, just a difference of opinion.

# 117 Bgamer90 @ 08/17/12 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btemp


	These are largely cosmetic. Pass trajectories get rid of the occasional knockdown by an LB, catching animations have very little effect on the game, IMO the infinity engine at this point changes very little how the game is played, and "read and react defence" (hilarious marketing) not only makes passing easier but is again, like everything else, a TWEAK.

What wouldn't be cosmetic then? Some of the features you mentioned address "legacy issues". If addressing legacy issues is just cosmetic, why were so many asking for it on these forums?

# 118 roadman @ 08/17/12 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgamer90


	What wouldn't be cosmetic then? Some of the features you mentioned address "legacy issues". If addressing legacy issues is just cosmetic, why were so many asking for it on these forums?

I think I can answer that.

Some people were looking for a different priority of legacy issues to be dealt with from EA.

For example, some people wanted OL/DL overhauled, momentum, plant footing worked on before pass trajectories, read and react, leaping LB's and CB's, etc.....

At the end of the day, EA makes the decision, we can only make suggestions.

# 119 btemp @ 08/17/12 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	No problem, just a difference of opinion.

Nice to have a discussion, recognize we don't agree, and have it all be polite and civil. Thank you.

Quote:


	What wouldn't be cosmetic then? Some of the features you mentioned address "legacy issues". If addressing legacy issues is just cosmetic, why were so many asking for it on these forums?

If you're interested I can go into greater detail, but ultimately I think the biggest "legacy" issues (think of these as umbrella issues with sub-issues below) are (a) repetitive, uninteresting defence and (b) broken offensive line and defensive line play. Personally, I'd add a (c) lack of development of franchise there as well, but we won't know if major steps have been taken until we play CC. [I also just want to note these are off the top of my head, there are probably better "umbrella words" to capture these]

So some of the fixes you've brought up would be sub-issues (or sub-sub-issues) of these major problems. Again, if requested I can go into much greater detail.

And at the end of the day I found Madden boring. That's of course entirely subjective, but I personally attribute it to these improvements being "tweaks" leaving the underlying, fundamental flaws in the game untouched. Or perhaps just a lack of innovation. This is almost exactly the same Madden I've been playing since 05 [IMO]

# 120 PacMan3000 @ 08/17/12 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangerrick012


	RE: Presentation, and lack of network branding - you don't need network branding to have great/TV style presentation. NBA 2K doesn't have a network brand but it still delivers a great presentation package. So although I get why some believe that slapping an ESPN or CBS logo would make things more immersive, I'm not entirely sure that would fix every problem that people still seem to have w/ the presentation side of things. You're focusing your attention on the wrong thing if you think network logo automatically = great presentation & a great game. Most recent example I can think of that is Grand Slam Tennis 2, which had ESPN presentation but still felt subpar on many levels. If you look at the NBA 2K team they say they worked with guys from TNT to get as close as they could to an accurate TV presentation. I think EA could do that but not put the 'CBS' or 'ESPN' logo up there, it would still be a huge step. Granted like I said the presentation has already taken a huge step from years past, and I do think this years' is an attempt to replicate a 'CBS' broadcast w/o the logo.

This is a great point. Remember how EA boasted about replicating all the real-life stadium cameras in Madden 12, saying that in each stadium, you'll be seeing replicated pre-play, post-play, and replays from virtually the same angle as it would be in the real-life stadium?

That appears to either be completely gone, or significantly reduced now. Why? There's not even any close-ups in the game anymore--everything is a bland medium shot presentation-wise. And the replays are always the same 3-shot/splice method.

Audio is *much* improved, but in terms of visual presentation, they never build on their success. They innovate, and then they walk away from what they innovated. Instead of building on the visual presentation last year (which I thought was quite good), they've gutted it.

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