Werewolf XCVIII - 24 Day Game Over - Post 2899

[DaddyTorgo]

Wouldn't you assume that since Pass claimed that EagleFan was bad that EagleFan is in fact good instead?

I know it's not 100%, but it's way above 75% in my book.

You could, but like I've said - Pass is a crafty player and I'm paranoid. Then again Pass was pushing a vote on EF and had no idea that NFG had found him out when he blocked the kill, so barring that Pass would have had to stay on EF.

We would have lynched EF, he'd come up good.

Yeah...I guess you could say EF is "Mid-Trust" at this point if you wanted to. I'm just very exclusive with my CoT's - I like to be sure that barring a cunning-wolf (or a traitor i suppose) it's fully-cleared. And even after this I don't think i can say in good conscience that EF is fully-cleared.

That being said - I think he's much less likely than we all thought before...throw him in the "medium trust" list and i'm okay with that.

but i mean everyone has to make their own personal judgments.

[DaddyTorgo]

*waves to henry*

hey!

[Thomkal]

well I'm glad I picked the right side this time. Good luck Jack if the wolves go after you again!

[DaddyTorgo]

well I'm glad I picked the right side this time. Good luck Jack if the wolves go after you again!


I'll be fine. They can bring it on!

FYI everyone - before we lost our PM rights I sent to the seer everything I know about the game, generalities about your roles (i didn't necessarily give every specific but generalities), and my trust list at that point, as well as my thoughts on who we ought to look towards (which was the same as the list i have posted above, obviously with the addition of people who are now dead).

So that combined with recent developments, and the trust lists I have continued to post and the way we have refined down the list of potential suspects means that things are looking good in that regard.

You all have the same info as the seer as far as trust lists and all now, the seer has the generalities of your roles, so in a sense i've "cloned" myself that way.

as i mentioned earlier too, i'd suggest that until the seer either hits on another wolf from among the suspect list, or can clear 2-3 more players who are on the "medium trust" or "no trust" list that they remain hidden.

we can only hope that CR was unable to find the seer in his limited searches.

[henry296]

Crazy day. I think nfg22 seeing Pass makes sense given that DT was wounded last night when Danny was killed so I don't think there were three attacks.

We should think about a possible cunning in my safe list. Did Pass "clear" saldana in the thread or in a PM. Also, path12 and PB could be cunning, but DT seems to trust PB.

Thoughts on a couple of others.

EagleFan - good for early read on CR and pass' actions today. Plus, his "paranoia" is relatively typical and given DT personality, I'm not drawing much from yesterday

Kingfc22 - Good. I believe plus vote for CR.

BrianD, nfg,ntn - Extremely High Trust

Jackal - again the vote for CR is a strong plus in his favor.


I still think Isidiqui and Thomkal are good bets for wolves. Autumn and Schmidty are other potential, but I think DT seems convinced about Schmidty innocence.

I think 2 of the 3 are wolves: Issidiqui, thomkal and Autumn and the final wolf is a cunning in my list.

[DaddyTorgo]

schmidty is cleared. purduebrad is...interesting. if there was one person to lynch first on my "high trust" list it would be him. FWIW.

[DaddyTorgo]

of the 3 just based on my gut i'd say...issidiqui for sure and then i'm not sure yet what my gut says about those other 2

[DaddyTorgo]

but there may be a way to "test" isiddiqui's power before we move towards lynching him.



and i'm still not sure about saldana+eaglefan because of pass - i know henry's list clears saldana, but i wonder why pass would essentially fake his power to name 1 villager as a villager and then 1 villager as a wolf? that just doesn't seem to make a ton of sense

[ISiddiqui]

but there may be a way to "test" isiddiqui's power before we move towards lynching him.

As I've said, I'm willing to use it. Just waiting on the list you were to provide me :).

Then I can hopefully put to rest the suspicions against me.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. i need to look through my PM's to see who's a candidate (it's a non-lethal role people, don't get all freaky)

[DaddyTorgo]

nice to get that circus-sideshow dealt with before the weekend. i wonder when on monday nfg will be released?

[Barkeep49]

nfg has been released from jail.

And with that I see no reason to continue on tonight. You are free to continue discussion but the timer is paused. No votes or actions will be accepted until Monday morning.

[The Jackal]

Nope, Pass was on Jackal.

Catching up but wanted to respond - he was on me pretty much the whole day. Even when I questioned him about moving when there had been subtle movement away from me, he stuck on me. I think that's another point I can add to the "jackal is telling the truth about being good" list.

[The Jackal]

I really hope the seer has scanned me by now (or an evil person that's being pitted against me), but I think I've done at least a little to show I'm not the best candidate out of the remaining "uncleareds". If I need to be lynched for the village to win, I'll deal with it, but I'd like to live to the end. It's a matter of pride now. We'll see what happens for Monday.

[The Jackal]

I won't be checking in much this weekend but I'll keep tabs on the situation so if anyone has questions for me, feel free.

I don't know that pass being bad tells us anything about henry. Unless we have a verified target from DT tomorrow (more than just we have a good percentage of getting a wolf) we should definitely take a look at every angle.

[nfg22]

Thank you all...I was at work wondering whether you would believe me or lynch me...Im glad that you followed me...no matter how crazy my role is.

[nfg22]

Pass, I still like you. Just not when your a wolf.

[ISiddiqui]

yeah. i need to look through my PM's to see who's a candidate (it's a non-lethal role people, don't get all freaky)

LOL, it's probably good you put that parenthetical. I wonder if some were wondering, oh crap, is DT going to kill me off in order to prove something!

[BrianD]

Sorry about my absence today, but I have finally caught up on everything since I've been out.

The first things I'd like to say....is "ouch". That aggressive interrogation was brutal. I was so bummed to be out of the game for all that time, but I totally understand the need for it. I was trying to keep the voting lively to see what kind of voting record we would produce, and I understand that also made me suspect. It seemed like a reasonable sacrifice to make for the team.

The reading has been great. Seeing ntn shoot CR in the head and have him be conspiracy was one of the most thrilling WW moments I have ever witnessed. The Pass execution was fun too. I'm loving this game so far. I don't really have anything to add as far as suspicion goes...I think you guys have done very well with your analysis. I'll be anxious to jump back in on Monday and see if we can wrap this thing up.

[Poli]

the timer is paused.
:cry:

[The Jackal]

Thank you all...I was at work wondering whether you would believe me or lynch me...Im glad that you followed me...no matter how crazy my role is.

I definitely had flashbacks to the Battlestar game when I believed PB over you, my worst mistake in my personal WW history, but I think you have circumstance and mostly DT to thank for the belief.

[The Jackal]

:cry:

Rebel! Transcend time!

[Autumn]

I'm going to be out all of today. Will check back tonight or tomorrow.

[henry296]

Ok, so the lynch was at ~ 6:30 EST and Barkeep stopped the clock at 11 PM EST. Therefore, we are 3.5 hours into the day. When does the clock restart? If it is a 7 AM EST (6 AM CST) then does that make the new 23 hour mark for the 40% threshold at 2:30 AM EST?

[hoopsguy]

The moderators will post in the thread the elapsed time once the clock is restarted. We will also send a PM to any players who have an action with remaining time until activation in order to minimize any confusion associated with the weekend stoppage.

[Poli]

beep?

[Barkeep49]

Ok, so the lynch was at ~ 6:30 EST and Barkeep stopped the clock at 11 PM EST. Therefore, we are 3.5 hours into the day. When does the clock restart? If it is a 7 AM EST (6 AM CST) then does that make the new 23 hour mark for the 40% threshold at 2:30 AM EST?
This is theoretically correct.

[EagleFan]

beep?

Best post of the thread nominee!!!

[EagleFan]

hi henry *waves*

[DaddyTorgo]

everyone still clear on everything? *goes back to refresh my memory myself*

[henry296]

DT - did we ever learn who mentioned every 36 hours between actions? Do you think they are still a suspect?

[DaddyTorgo]

DT - did we ever learn who mentioned every 36 hours between actions? Do you think they are still a suspect?

they are not a suspect (except that they may be cunning/traitor)

[DaddyTorgo]

No Verified Trust
TheJackal
Autumn
ISiddiqui
Thomkal

Questionable due to Passacaglia
eaglefan (pass claimed he was evil)
saldana (pass claimed he was good)

Mid-Trust (thru actions, or etc)
kingfc22 (his action resulted in no harm to nfg)
path12



High trust:
DaddyTorgo - CTU Special Agent Jack Bauer
BrianD
ntndeacon (only by action, but he did kill a wolf)
nfg22
PurdueBrad
henry296
Schmidty

Couple notes about this: This list DOES NOT take Henry's list into account despite the fact that he is high-trust. To take Henry's list into account COMBINED with my list, disregard Saldana and Path12 as potential wolves.

[DaddyTorgo]

(just wanted to repost that since we're "game on" again

[EagleFan]

What got PB and Schmidty on high trust?

I totally missed something there, at least with PB. Other than PB sending out a PM claiming to be some third party character and not conspiracy has there been anything else? Are you putting him on high trust because you believe his PM? You believed Pass enough to try to lynch me (even though I gave you a wolf with my ability already and Pass gave you NOTHING concrete prior to that) on what he said too and we see where that got us.

Just need clarification. People need to start understanding why we should trust who you say we should trust. Expecially since you have pushed for three lynches.... me, KWhit and clap. You are 0 for 3. Not going to include the Telle lynch in that because I don't remember if you pushed for that, I think that was just a sudden development after the killing of CR.

(apparently you raised your daughter to become a member of the conspiracy so it's natural that your judgement is questioned :D )

[DaddyTorgo]

What got PB and Schmidty on high trust?

I totally missed something there, at least with PB. Other than PB sending out a PM claiming to be some third party character and not conspiracy has there been anything else? Are you putting him on high trust because you believe his PM? You believed Pass enough to try to lynch me (even though I gave you a wolf with my ability already and Pass gave you NOTHING concrete prior to that) on what he said too and we see where that got us.

Just need clarification. People need to start understanding why we should trust who you say we should trust. Expecially since you have pushed for three lynches.... me, KWhit and clap. You are 0 for 3. Not going to include the Telle lynch in that because I don't remember if you pushed for that, I think that was just a sudden development after the killing of CR.

(apparently you raised your daughter to become a member of the conspiracy so it's natural that your judgement is questioned :D )

i also pushed for the two lynches that netted us wolves.

and you are TBD still. i'm 0-2 on the first 2 days, hardly worse than the village would do without me.

[DaddyTorgo]

again back to this whole trying to discredit me thing hmm EF? That bumps you up a notch in my "likely to be a wolf" category, cuz I think it's the only shot the wolves have left frankly.

Ummm...yeah...we see where my views on Pass got us - to a lynch of Pass. And CR was next on my list when NTN shot him, because of the nature of the power he claimed (identical to the nature of the power you claim -- something we have no ability to verify).

[DaddyTorgo]

i NEVER had Pass on my high-trust list...at best he was "medium trust", so I'm not sure what you're harping on about. IMHO that is just proving that my CoT is solid.

[DaddyTorgo]

and as for Chief Rum - yes Danny led the lynch, because I was (as noted numerous times) afk for the night, but I received the same info that he did (at least I presume) informing me that Chief was a wolf.

Don't try to use my real-life schedule against me.

[EagleFan]

i also pushed for the two lynches that netted us wolves.

and you are TBD still. i'm 0-2 on the first 2 days, hardly worse than the village would do without me.

You are counting pushing for a Pass lynch after there was a reveal in thread? Please...

Still no PB answer... I have never seen someone seem to get saved from a lynch as the second candidate on both of the first two nights and then not get questioned again (without basically coming out as the seer and handing us a wolf).

It's time to start playing this a little more like a WW game instead of a be led around blindfolded by the hand and not dare question DT or get put on the not trusted list game.

I give you more reason to trust me than Pass (what I gave you was verified and what he gave you never was) yet the first time he lies about me you jump right on the band wagon. That tells me all that I need to know about your judgement in this game.

[EagleFan]

again back to this whole trying to discredit me thing hmm EF? That bumps you up a notch in my "likely to be a wolf" category, cuz I think it's the only shot the wolves have left frankly.


There we have it. The DARE NOT SAY ANYTHING TO QUESTION DT OR YOU MUST BE BAD play..... Why even bother if you can't handle being questioned?

[EagleFan]

Substitute Lathum for DT in the exact same posts and there would be cries of "Lathum is bullying!!!".

[EagleFan]

His act is tiresome. I am out for the night, at least...

[henry296]

EagleFan,

I can't speak for DT since his list is independent from mine, but PurdueBrad was part of my group that voted for Telle, therefore, I would delay the question on his allegience until later in the game.

I'm in the process of re-reading the thread, but haven't found anything of note yet.

[DaddyTorgo]

You are counting pushing for a Pass lynch after there was a reveal in thread? Please...

Still no PB answer... I have never seen someone seem to get saved from a lynch as the second candidate on both of the first two nights and then not get questioned again (without basically coming out as the seer and handing us a wolf).

It's time to start playing this a little more like a WW game instead of a be led around blindfolded by the hand and not dare question DT or get put on the not trusted list game.

I give you more reason to trust me than Pass (what I gave you was verified and what he gave you never was) yet the first time he lies about me you jump right on the band wagon. That tells me all that I need to know about your judgement in this game.

yes i'm counting that, because you all were like "who should we trust" and i was like "lynch pass" and that helped sway people.

There's at least one other villager who knows why I trust PB (aside from the seer).

what you gave me was verified? sure...but you could still be a wolf and you threw me a list with 1 wolf and 2 villagers in case this exact situation ever came up in the game so you could fall back on "i questioned CR way before" as a way to buy trust.

I did not jump on you solely because of what Pass said. It was also because of the fact that your claimed power (same as CR's in this sense) is unable to be verified by us villagers.

You badly badly want to be trusted hmm?? Why's it so important to you?? You're on the not-trusted list because aside from giving me a list of 3 names and saying "CR came back as questionable" you haven't done anything to belong on the trust list (as hard as that is for you to accept). And frankly doing that doesn't buy you much more than a *nod* in my book. It doesn't buy you onto the "high trust list," at best it might sneak you onto the "medium trust" list (combined with Pass' comments about you). It has nothing to do with your questioning me. It has to do with the fact you haven't been seer-scanned or interrogated by me.

Everyone on the high-trust list has either been seer-scanned (or interrogated by me), or brought us a wolf - not just said "I think so-and-so is a wolf." Plain and simple. That's why you're not on it, despite your intense desire to be on it. You can make medium-trust, and if you bring us another of the wolves you might make it up to high-trust without a scan sure.

[DaddyTorgo]

There we have it. The DARE NOT SAY ANYTHING TO QUESTION DT OR YOU MUST BE BAD play..... Why even bother if you can't handle being questioned?

lol - as i covered - i don't suspect you are bad because you are questioning me. i suspect it because of the nature of the power you claim. your desire to continue trying to prod me and discredit my information is ratcheting that up a bit though, i will confess.

[DaddyTorgo]

is it just me, or does it feel to anyone else like EF is going over the top with this "DT the bully" thing to try to gain sympathy and escape scrutiny?

If you all don't think that i'll back off, but it's tough to see from where i sit, since it's me he's apparently pissed off at.

[nfg22]

I can see EF's point. It does seem like you make the decisions but then again you know who all the key players are and have the most information. You not only have the seer's list but also yours and whoever else has added input. I think EF may have a point but he also needs to tone it down. I like it when people argue for something rather than against something. If your not a wolf then dont say that, but rather tell us why someone else is.

Then again EF may well be the seer and you guys are fake arguing to masqurade that. Thats what makes WW so fun, its the possibilities. That said EF is not the top on my list(but is rising).

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay...I mean I don't want to come off as bullying - I'm just trying to obscure some things. I mean if I come out and say for example "Person X has been scanned by the seer" than that is one less person that the wolves have to chose from as they look to target the seer.

I just wish EF would understand that that's why I'm obscuring things.

[DaddyTorgo]

although i guess the flipside is i can just say "x was scanned by the seer" even when i'm referring to the seer. *shrugs*

[henry296]

soothsayer-pass vouched for saldana.

Just re-reading. Was this privately or publicly?

[henry296]

Alright,

I just finished re-reading the thread and even with current information I didn't pick up much else new.

My schedule on Monday will be even worse tomorrow with a business dinner tomorrow night which probably means i want even start reading until 9 PM at the earliest.

Given the events of Friday, I'm good with EagleFan, nfg22 and Kingfc22. DT seems really convinced on Schmidty and I have no read other than UTR, so he is not on my suspect list. For now Path and PurdueBrad, and saldana are ok due to their Telle vote, but we probably need to revisit in a day or two.

Therefore, I have four suspects, but all voted for Pass. They are Autumn, ISiddiqui, Jackal and Thomkal.

Since Thomkal cast the final vote on Pass, I won't vote for him today even though it looked like Pass was done no matter what.

Autumn - given the exchange a couple of days ago I think he is ok.

Jackal- The voting pattern with Chief Rum makes him lower on the list.

That leaves ISiddiqui and although it seems he has some type of power dealing with PMs, it seems a little odd to me. While, I know he is new that is often a good strategy for a new wolf, plus I noticed a lot of agreement posts and not much new info.

Therefore, since I'd like to make sure I least get in a vote since it is getting closer to the end.

Vote ISiddiqui

[EagleFan]

henry,

do you have any information about how the cunning would be handled with your power?


others.

I am still not sold on PB. I don't remember everseeing someone get saved that close to being voted out on the first two days of a game and not be a wolf.

He sent me a PM claiming a third party type of role and asking me to not vote for him. This could very easily be the case, or he could be the cunning (just following this through as it sounds as if he has at least told DT the same, of not others). If the cunning is in trouble of being lynched claim a different role, one that doesn't seem to be able to be verified based on what he told me at least, and hope it gets you scanned. This way maybe you survive the lynch and you get scanned and "cleared".

He may very well be clean and just got a bad break but I would think that he would have been lynched by now in most games just due to the fact that it looked like he was being saved in each of the first two days.

Okay, now I am probably out for the night (just got done a conference call with off-shore and this game is a lot less frustrating so I figured it could help me recover from the call-- we're a casino software and hardware company and the idea kept coming up to discontinue doing something and I had to keep saying "this is something that ALL our Vegas clients, even in their non-Vegas properties, use, it was requested by and designed for them, we NEED to keep doing this." but the idea kept coming up to stop doing it because it would be easier to not have to support it).

oh, don't read that as "we need to vote PB", just trying to figure out what got him to high trust. Was it just a PM from the seer? If that is the case we still no nothing about this seer and if they are just a wolf lying to DT (this is the crux of my arguement).

[EagleFan]

Norm!!!!!!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

henry,

do you have any information about how the cunning would be handled with your power?


others.

I am still not sold on PB. I don't remember everseeing someone get saved that close to being voted out on the first two days of a game and not be a wolf.

He sent me a PM claiming a third party type of role and asking me to not vote for him. This could very easily be the case, or he could be the cunning (just following this through as it sounds as if he has at least told DT the same, of not others). If the cunning is in trouble of being lynched claim a different role, one that doesn't seem to be able to be verified based on what he told me at least, and hope it gets you scanned. This way maybe you survive the lynch and you get scanned and "cleared".

He may very well be clean and just got a bad break but I would think that he would have been lynched by now in most games just due to the fact that it looked like he was being saved in each of the first two days.

Okay, now I am probably out for the night (just got done a conference call with off-shore and this game is a lot less frustrating so I figured it could help me recover from the call-- we're a casino software and hardware company and the idea kept coming up to discontinue doing something and I had to keep saying "this is something that ALL our Vegas clients, even in their non-Vegas properties, use, it was requested by and designed for them, we NEED to keep doing this." but the idea kept coming up to stop doing it because it would be easier to not have to support it).

oh, don't read that as "we need to vote PB", just trying to figure out what got him to high trust. Was it just a PM from the seer? If that is the case we still no nothing about this seer and if they are just a wolf lying to DT (this is the crux of my arguement).


i will tell you this - it's more than just the PM from PB that earned him this trust. I have alluded to it before, but i won't go into more detail right now. it's not my place.

EF - if the seer is a wolf lying to me then frankly...we are fucked. if that's the crux of your entire argument that is a pretty weak argument. I only had one person reveal to me as a seer all game, and I've gotten reveals from everyone. i find it inconceivable that in a game this size and complexity we wouldn't have an ordinary-seer.

[DaddyTorgo]

EF - you're obsessing over this whole cunning thing. Let's catch the regular wolves first and THEN worry about the cunning.

[PurdueBrad]

Catching back up, will be on mid to late morning and then most of the day.

[PurdueBrad]

Although looking at the unverified list, especially IF paired with Henry's list, it's almost fish in a barrel time.

[PurdueBrad]

Therefore, I'm convinced Thomkal, Pass, Isidiqui and Autumn are our conspirators.


No Verified Trust
TheJackal
Autumn
ISiddiqui
Thomkal


Until I see a real reason to distrust the above two posters, I will vote off of their lists (which are virtually identical with the exception of Jackal appearing on DT's which means no vote for Jackal for now). So until I really get back into this, I'll introduce Danny's choice for lynch again:

vote Thomkal

[PurdueBrad]

As for EF pushing for more info, I understand that as he usually has a good thinking-outside-the-box mind (so I wouldn't hang him for it yet) but I do also think that sometimes there are things that need to remain unclear. IF the scanned players are laid out, I agree whole-heartedly with DT that then we end up painting a target on someone. Why push to out someone?

I do understand, again, where EF is coming from as the public role of Jack Bauer makes it hard to question him but I felt that DT was far from lathuming and I don't think he's even really used his influence too much or to the detriment of the village. I will say this, lynching me on day 1 or day 2 would have been the same result, basically another lost villager.

EF, I can say this, don't say you've never seen something and expect it to remain that way because things will happen (for instance, end of this game, I'm going to be good and you were also in the game where I melted down at Lathum [Danny's?] where I was up for lynch D1 and D2, beat both, got lynched D3 and was good there too, so I think you have seen it).

Also, and I am probably mistaken and don't have complete time to go back, but was EF the other person that claimed they have a separate win condition of having to outlive someone? If so, then I'm guessing by his push that I'm the person he needs to outlive to win his own game. If that wasn't EF then, well, I'm wrong.

[DaddyTorgo]

Until I see a real reason to distrust the above two posters, I will vote off of their lists (which are virtually identical with the exception of Jackal appearing on DT's which means no vote for Jackal for now). So until I really get back into this, I'll introduce Danny's choice for lynch again:

exactly what i'd propose. *nods*

i likely have a fairly busy day, but am trying to make myself around.

[EagleFan]

EF, I can say this, don't say you've never seen something and expect it to remain that way because things will happen (for instance, end of this game, I'm going to be good and you were also in the game where I melted down at Lathum [Danny's?] where I was up for lynch D1 and D2, beat both, got lynched D3 and was good there too, so I think you have seen it).


I'm not saying that you are bad because of teh day one nd day two stuff. I am just saying that I have never seen a circumstance like that happen where the village doesn't try to find out more about that (which yes may end up in a bad lynch but it also may end up netting more).


Messed up on my multiple quote but for DT. It is not a week arguement. The argument is that we are not being given a chance to make the decision ourselves but told to blindly trust. More can be done from a team working together than from one person trying to call all the shots.


"Just do what I say and don't question" does not go over well with me in any situation. Every time I have encountered a situation like that (RL, non-RL, whatever) it has always led to disaster.

[EagleFan]

dola: I know I typed he wrong weak but realized it when I hit submit... :)

[Barkeep49]

For official purposes the clock began again at 5 AM. No votes from the weekend are accepted.

[nfg22]

I dont know who to vote but since im going to be out for a while ill throw a provisional out there.

Acted way too cool when I revealed pass was a wolf. I think He thought it was over and tried to earn cred.

Vote ISiddiqui

[nfg22]

Im out till much later...

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not saying that you are bad because of teh day one nd day two stuff. I am just saying that I have never seen a circumstance like that happen where the village doesn't try to find out more about that (which yes may end up in a bad lynch but it also may end up netting more).


Messed up on my multiple quote but for DT. It is not a week arguement. The argument is that we are not being given a chance to make the decision ourselves but told to blindly trust. More can be done from a team working together than from one person trying to call all the shots.


"Just do what I say and don't question" does not go over well with me in any situation. Every time I have encountered a situation like that (RL, non-RL, whatever) it has always led to disaster.

what you're missing though is that i'm not trying to call all the shots. I'm just telling you what is a good idea and a bad idea from what i know. obviously if you come out saying you want to vote for someone in my CoT (outside of PB and NTN) I have to be more-defensive than I would otherwise though, because that person might be the seer. That's why I'm pushing back very hard on all of those people.

I don't think anybody is pushing for an NTN-lynch, but in the case of PB I'd simply push back and say "go ahead, but it's not the highest-probability of finding a wolf."

He's not in my high-trust list, but he also doesn't appear on henry's list, so I'm not sure why we'd even look in his direction until we have exhausted the list of 3-4 that we have that are in worse-shape trust wise.

I'm not trying to be heavy-headed EF, or shut down discussion. I'd be curious to know which of the people on my list or henry+my combo list you'd be interested in lynching?

[Thomkal]

I'm leaning towards voting EagleFan today personally. I can't understand why he's being so forceful and negative towards the only known good in the game.

[ISiddiqui]

That leaves ISiddiqui and although it seems he has some type of power dealing with PMs, it seems a little odd to me. While, I know he is new that is often a good strategy for a new wolf, plus I noticed a lot of agreement posts and not much new info.

Not exactly (on the power). Though DT knows more about it.

I may tend to agree a lot, but I'm still figuring this game out, after all. I tend to have a lot of questions on is a certain poster acting like they normally do and whatnot, but not all that comfortable with advancing new info, especially when more experienced WW players may consider it not that new. Basically, I'm just feeling things out.

[hoopsguy]

Conspiracy kill coming momentarily - just in case anyone was planning any actions as I'm writing this one up.

[DaddyTorgo]

Not exactly (on the power). Though DT knows more about it.

I may tend to agree a lot, but I'm still figuring this game out, after all. I tend to have a lot of questions on is a certain poster acting like they normally do and whatnot, but not all that comfortable with advancing new info, especially when more experienced WW players may consider it not that new. Basically, I'm just feeling things out.

please, ask your questions. it might help us to reconsider things we overlooked, or you might have a unique insight.

as far as your power - i'm having a hard time figuring who it can be used on, and i want to be sure, because if it fails you're going to be an immediate target of a lot of folks. you might be able to use it on PB (again everyone, to my knowledge it's non-lethal).

[DaddyTorgo]

bastard conspiracy members

[DaddyTorgo]

in-thread: brian d, saldana, thomkal

[DaddyTorgo]

(just fyi, not saying draw any conclusions from that about anyone)

[BrianD]

Even with all of the arguing taking place over most of this game, I'm thinking that EF is probably OK. I don't get the impression that he is fighting against DT as much as he is fighting for the respect of his ideas. It can be frustrating when you come out with a long thorough analysis and have it not gain much attention. I'm just reading frustration in most of EF's posts.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm sorry if EF feels like i'm not respecting his ideas. i certainly do. hell...i consider myself generally a weak villager, so this is a tough game for me.

i just have to push back hard when he goes after someone he knows is good so that my pushing back if/when someone looks towards the seer looks exactly the same. i want to cut off the potential that we lynch the seer before it ever gains any momentum, which means cutting off the potential for lynching anyone in my high-trust list (by definition).

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry - should say "when he goes after someone I know is good"

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm unsure which of ISid, Autumn, and Thomkal to go after first - hell I welcome everyone's insight into that.

Autumn has provided me with correct information, but that isn't to say that he couldn't be a wolf seeking to gain trust (hence why he's on medium-trust)

[Thomkal]

(just fyi, not saying draw any conclusions from that about anyone)

as well you shouldn't as everyone has had all weekend to get orders in.

[DaddyTorgo]

as well you shouldn't as everyone has had all weekend to get orders in.

very true. it's just my habit of noting who's around.

[Poli]

Conspiracy kill coming momentarily - just in case anyone was planning any actions as I'm writing this one up.
Beep, beep, beep, beep...

[The Jackal]

very true. it's just my habit of noting who's around.

Careful with that though, way too close to metagaming. It's one thing to note who's around at a lynch deadline in the thread and has a chance to change a vote or whatever, but it's another to base suspicions off who's in the thread when an event happens. No thanks.

[The Jackal]

We'll see what happens with this conspiracy kill but I'm still deciding between Thom and ISidd.

[DaddyTorgo]

it definately didn't mean anything...particularly coming off a weekend. just force of habit i guess.

[DaddyTorgo]

*waves to evil-Passacaglia*

[DaddyTorgo]

i thought there was a kill coming?

*major let-down*

[BrianD]

I've been holding off on saying much until I figure out if I am still alive. :)

[EagleFan]

Wow, long write up. Someone mentioned an idea that maybe they get two every other night. Is this that "night"?

[DaddyTorgo]

I've been holding off on saying much until I figure out if I am still alive. :)

unless it's some sort of reveal or something, you should probably get it out there. gives us more thoughts to work with

[BrianD]

unless it's some sort of reveal or something, you should probably get it out there. gives us more thoughts to work with

Nothing that cool, just ramblings from a confused villager. :)

[EagleFan]

Blocked somehow? Another unsuccessful attempt on DT? Mod got tied up with RL issues?

[DaddyTorgo]

Nothing that cool, just ramblings from a confused villager. :)

He was a man and a friend always
He stuck with me in the hard old days
He never cared if I had no dough
We rambled around in the rain and snow

And here's to you, my rambling boy
May all your rambling bring you joy
Here's to you, my rambling boy
May all your rambling bring you joy

In Tulsa town we chanced to stray
We thought we'd try to work one day
The boss said he had room for one
Said my old pal we'd rather bum

And here's to you, my rambling boy
May all your rambling bring you joy
Here's to you, my rambling boy
May all your rambling bring you joy

Late one night in a jungle camp
The weather it was cold and damp
He got the chills and he got 'em bad
They took the only friend I had

And here's to you, my rambling boy
May all your rambling bring you joy
Here's to you, my rambling boy
May all your rambling bring you joy

He let me here to ramble on
My rambling pal is dead and gone
If when we die we go somewhere
I bet you a dollar he's a rambling there

[Passacaglia]

*waves to evil-Passacaglia*

I'm around.

[hoopsguy]

The conspiracy must have access to my client's network - got pulled to address an issue ...

Although the hunt for the Conspiracy is going well at the moment, are the forces of the Government running out of time to stop the plot that is already in motion? The report from the Center of Disease Control and Prevention is not good - the cases of hemorraghic fever look to be related to some type of weaponized ebola virus.

Agents are dispatched to the Russian embassy to investigate reports of a rogue Conspiracy agent seeking shelter, but instead find a deathtrap. The ebola report appears to have been a fake, but the explosion that took out several agents and every living person in the embassy most certainly was not.

Among the dead is NFG22, whose back-channel service to your cause will be greatly missed. Hopefully the politicians can find some way to finesse the death of yet another president (albeit a Russian one) on US soil over the last week.

You are President Suvarov. While the FSB is but a mere shadow of what the KGB once was, it is still one of the world's foremost intellegence agencies. As President of Russia every 24 hours you may direct the FSB to investigate one player to learn if they are are a member of the Conspiracy (i.e. you're the seer).

[DaddyTorgo]

fuck

[The Jackal]

Damn. I didn't think he was the seer, you guys did a decent job of hiding that.

[BrianD]

Ouch.

[PurdueBrad]

Damn!

[DaddyTorgo]

i figured chief rum had figured that out in his role, and if not they would have figured it out when they nabbed him up.

but that's why i trusted NFG all game. Kudos to him for playing a great game as seer. i know he was bummed he didn't discover more wolves early, but he built us a hell of a CoT and also plucked Pass (which was if i recall correctly) something i mentioned in my final PM, to potentially take a look at Pass because that'd tell us about pass and 2 people he had views on.

and he managed to get all of his info out before he died.

not too shabby for a first game as seer!! you done will dude!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

so yeah, everyone else in the high-trust list was seer scanned, except for BrianD who I interrogated. That's why I trust all of them (notwithstanding a cunning wolf in there).

[EagleFan]

Who is still untrusted?

[Thomkal]

well crud! that surprised me too-didn't think nfg was the seer after what happened Friday.

[The Jackal]

Who is still untrusted?

You, me, thom, Isidd, Autumn, king have not been cleared, I believe.

path and saldana also have not been cleared but are fine if henry is good.

[DaddyTorgo]

You, me, thom, Isidd, Autumn, king have not been cleared, I believe.

path and saldana also have not been cleared but are fine if henry is good.

that's correct.

[DaddyTorgo]

anybody want to volunteer for the next round of "enhanced interrogation" i have coming up tomorrow afternoon?

[BrianD]

Can we get a re-post of that list?

[DaddyTorgo]

actually jackal - you left EF off your list

[The Jackal]

actually jackal - you left EF off your list

No I didn't, he was the you. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

eaglefan, jackal, thom, Isidd, Autumn, king have not been cleared.

path and saldana also have not been cleared but are fine if henry is good.

[The Jackal]

Uncleared:

EF
Jackal
Thomkal
ISidd
Autumn
king

Cleared by henry:

saldana, path

[DaddyTorgo]

No I didn't, he was the you. :)

just figured that out and reposted.

who on the list wants to volunteer for enhanced interrogation?

[The Jackal]

anybody want to volunteer for the next round of "enhanced interrogation" i have coming up tomorrow afternoon?

Sure.

[EagleFan]

If we go from the list I think we should put two head to head, maybe gain some vote info alog the way. I am still not sold on thehenry list 100 percent yet, though the Pass thing has helped his cause.

Or, how about sal versus someone from the top list? We may learn from the vote and nab a conspirator.

[The Jackal]

Was henry scanned, DT? I remember you saying you had reason to believe he was good.

[DaddyTorgo]

i think we go two from the top list head-to-head. i don't want to drive things too much though...leave the actual choice of who up to you all

[DaddyTorgo]

Was henry scanned, DT? I remember you saying you had reason to believe he was good.

yes. henry was scanned.

[DaddyTorgo]

everybody not on the "uncleared" or "henry cleared" list and still alive was either scanned or interrogated (*waves to BrianD*) and is good.

[DaddyTorgo]

oops - meant to say "excluding ntn and PB who are matters of public knowledge"

[EagleFan]

oops - meant to say "excluding ntn and PB who are matters of public knowledge"

PB was not scanned?

[ISiddiqui]

Crap! That's a useful guy on our side. You guys did do a great job in hiding his power as Jackal says.

[ISiddiqui]

everybody not on the "uncleared" or "henry cleared" list and still alive was either scanned or interrogated (*waves to BrianD*) and is good.

Now I wished you scanned me!

Anyway, as to my questions about people. I think someone mentioned EF gets like this in most WW games, but I was curious if he tends to be this aggressive usually as his actions are pretty suspicious at the moment.

[DaddyTorgo]

PB was not scanned?

no sir. i alluded to the specifics of PB and NTN in one of my posts last night, and that's all i want to say, unless PB wants to say something.

i won't be voting for him now though. nor torturing him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Now I wished you scanned me!

Anyway, as to my questions about people. I think someone mentioned EF gets like this in most WW games, but I was curious if he tends to be this aggressive usually as his actions are pretty suspicious at the moment.

i could interrogate you - how does 36 hours of being waterboarded without any caffeine sound?? :)

[ISiddiqui]

No caffeine!!!!!! You are too cruel! ;)

I'll volunteer to be interrogated so you can clear me.

[Thomkal]

anybody want to volunteer for the next round of "enhanced interrogation" i have coming up tomorrow afternoon?

Sure I'll volunteer, all the uncleareds should.

[DaddyTorgo]

i know...it probably needed a smiley face as i'll take whoever i want. was more the idea of volunteering for enhanced interrogation that got me laughing

[PurdueBrad]

DT, I will volunteer to be interrogated if it alleviates EF's concerns about me. I have no problem with it in all honesty.

[ISiddiqui]

I have no problem with it in all honesty.

You kinky bastard ;)

[PurdueBrad]

You kinky bastard ;)

Any chance you could just go ahead and do ISiddiqui and I at the same time? :lol:

[Thomkal]

ok afk for a bit, should be on most of the afternoon though.

[path12]

anybody want to volunteer for the next round of "enhanced interrogation" i have coming up tomorrow afternoon?

I will.

[DaddyTorgo]

I will.

per henry's list you're okay though

[DaddyTorgo]

and we might have cause for your using your ability if i choose right

[path12]

VOTE AUTUMN

Picked from the uncleared list.

[path12]

per henry's list you're okay though

Well, I know I'm OK, and I tend to trust henry's list because of that but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

[path12]

Mondays are my busiest day. Back later.

[EagleFan]

Now I wished you scanned me!

Anyway, as to my questions about people. I think someone mentioned EF gets like this in most WW games, but I was curious if he tends to be this aggressive usually as his actions are pretty suspicious at the moment.

Gets like this? I think I need to take offense to that.

I am just trying to get everyone to not forget about the WW mechanics still at work in this game and to do all their due dilligence in investigating voting patterns and the like. As important as it is to not forget about the unusual mechanics in the game it is just as important to not forget about the standard WW mechanics as well. Voting or inconsistancies by now should be able to show us what we nee to fill in the gaps but I don't see much mentioned about that anymore.

We're close to victory and I just want to see us cover all of our bases.

[DaddyTorgo]

Gets like this? I think I need to take offense to that.

I am just trying to get everyone to not forget about the WW mechanics still at work in this game and to do all their due dilligence in investigating voting patterns and the like. As important as it is to not forget about the unusual mechanics in the game it is just as important to not forget about the standard WW mechanics as well. Voting or inconsistancies by now should be able to show us what we nee to fill in the gaps but I don't see much mentioned about that anymore.

We're close to victory and I just want to see us cover all of our bases.

I appreciate this...I haven't been trying to be heavy-handed you know. Just would love to see a village-win (and yes, selfishly, one in which i played an important role). But a village-win.

[Barkeep49]

Just a warning that coverage is likely to be spotty between 12:30 and 3. Hoops will be in and out during that time.

[EagleFan]

Just a warning that coverage is likely to be spotty between 12:30 and 3. Hoops will be in and out during that time.

Whatever the two of you do behind closed doors is your own business, no need to tell us the details. :eek:

[saldana]

i find it intersting that EF keeps wanting to vote me, even though there has been absolutely nothing in this entire conversation that gives any reason to doubt the list from Henry...in fact the opposite is true...events have given credibility to his conclusion, but EF still wants me in a runoff against someone that has had no vouch, where as i have had 2 (albeit one of them was from a wolf)

anyway, i think it is about time someone lost their werewolf virginitiy

vote isiddiqui

[DaddyTorgo]

Whatever the two of you do behind closed doors is your own business, no need to tell us the details. :eek:

well played. who's the pitcher and who's the catcher?

[DaddyTorgo]

it's true...we have let isiddiqui play relatively deep into this game as a newb - perhaps it's time to take the gloves off and give him a lynching-death?

[EagleFan]

vote king

Not going to start at the top of that list since it's my name up there. :)

Actually something is just striking me as odd about Jackal's response to the kill today. I can't get past that at the moment. Not enough to vote for the moment but just a weird feeling.

[EagleFan]

Out for a while myself. Lunch and then a three hour meeting for work (I hate them) in which I am going to have to BS my way through as they are expecting designs from me though I have still not received the official requirements, just speculations (not sure how that is supposed to work).

[The Jackal]

Not sure what struck you as odd EF, but if you get a feeling you get a feeling.

Why did you vote for king? It seems like we are spreading this vote out way too much.

[EagleFan]

Not sure what struck you as odd EF, but if you get a feeling you get a feeling.

Why did you vote for king? It seems like we are spreading this vote out way too much.

As long as we spread the vote out within the list we really can't go too wrong as we will potentially have moer to learn from a lynch and a good chance of nailing a wolf in the process.

[The Jackal]

I'm still torn between Thom and Isidd, but I think it's probable that both of them are wolves.

VOTE ISIDD

[The Jackal]

As long as we spread the vote out within the list we really can't go too wrong as we will potentially have moer to learn from a lynch and a good chance of nailing a wolf in the process.

Fair enough, I guess it leaves a lot of potential for movement.

[EagleFan]

Fair enough, I guess it leaves a lot of potential for movement.

Which I think is actually a possible good thing in this case. I sure don't want a run away and doesn't your vote on IS lead us closer to that?

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah - lack of a runaway isn't a bad thing in this case as EF says.

[EagleFan]

yeah - lack of a runaway isn't a bad thing in this case as EF says.

Holy crap!!!! We agreed on something. :eek:

:devil:

[The Jackal]

Which I think is actually a possible good thing in this case. I sure don't want a run away and doesn't your vote on IS lead us closer to that?

I honestly have no idea what the count is. I figured mine made it something like 3-2 ISidd over Thom. Is there an updated count?

[BrianD]

DT, do you have any suggestions for me? I don't think I ever got a hit from the PM I sent you way early in the game.

While we figure things out, and due to just some odd feelings reading while I was out of the game...

Vote Thomkal

[EagleFan]

As of 2408:

IS 4 - henry (2306), nfg (2319), sal (2395), Jack (2402)
Thom 2 - PB (2313), Brian (2408)
Autumn 1 - path (2388)
king 1 - EF (2398)

[EagleFan]

I honestly have no idea what the count is. I figured mine made it something like 3-2 ISidd over Thom. Is there an updated count?

Your vote actually made it 4-1-1-1 at the time. Now it's 4-2-1-1.

[EagleFan]

unvote king

vote Jack

That last vote got me wondering even more about him now; with his vote making it even more of a runaway at the time.

[Barkeep49]

As of 2408:

IS 4 - henry (2306), nfg (2319), sal (2395), Jack (2402)
Thom 2 - PB (2313), Brian (2408)
Autumn 1 - path (2388)
king 1 - EF (2398)
This is not correct. nfg is dead.

[ntndeacon]

I will tie it up here. I felt drawn to getting rid of Thomkal first anyway.
Vote Thomkal

[The Jackal]

unvote king

vote Jack

That last vote got me wondering even more about him now; with his vote making it even more of a runaway at the time.

I said I think they are both wolves - if I'd known only one was on Thomkal (I swore at least 2 were already) I wouldn't have put a 4th on ISidd, but it looks fine now.

[ISiddiqui]

it's true...we have let isiddiqui play relatively deep into this game as a newb - perhaps it's time to take the gloves off and give him a lynching-death?

What, are n00bs usually given a welcome-to-the-club early lynching? I'm sure that helps in retaining them for future games ;).

Oh, and EF, I didn't mean any offense. I just saw that you were the most, I guess the word would be, excited of everyone.

[Autumn]

Well, a busier weekend, and weekday than I expected. I just caught up. I'm not surprised they got the seer, I was able to peg that eventually, which is why I stopped pushing DT on NFG's fishy story. I apologize if I pushed it too much and gave it away to the wolves.

I think it's good to go from the uncleared list. Jackal won't be surprised to hear he's still on top of my list. He seems to be avoiding attention for hte most part in this vote so I'm likely to go there, it seems unlikely the wolves aren't pushing the vote at this time. EF is my next likely target, frankly,. he's been trying to discredit DT's thinking the whole time. Both of these guys have a lot more pointing at them than the rest of the list.

I agree a runoff is a good idea though.

<b>VOTE THE JACKAL</b>

[EagleFan]

What, are n00bs usually given a welcome-to-the-club early lynching? I'm sure that helps in retaining them for future games ;).

Oh, and EF, I didn't mean any offense. I just saw that you were the most, I guess the word would be, excited of everyone.

Sorry, this game has gotten me a little more stirred up that usual I would say (with no Lathum someone had to get stirred up :) ). At least I think that is the case.

I think it got elevated because of the last couple of games where I came out with theories that weren't listened to and they ended up being dead on. :)

[Autumn]

In fact, DT, I would go so far as to suggest jackal for your interrogation. The information I came up with about him was of a foreign nature. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but the writeup on JAG made it sound like we could expect the foreigners to generally be bad.

[Autumn]

I'm watching the kids so my presence will be sketchy. I'm going to try to check back in when I can.

[EagleFan]

In fact, DT, I would go so far as to suggest jackal for your interrogation. The information I came up with about him was of a foreign nature. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but the writeup on JAG made it sound like we could expect the foreigners to generally be bad.

Racist.... :eek:


Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

I am about to head into that 3 hour long meeting frmo hell. Will be back sometime (will still have this up in the background so I may sneak a peek once in a while).

[ISiddiqui]

LOL, well 24 hasn't necessarily been too PC about "racial profiling", as far as I can tell ;).

[The Jackal]

In fact, DT, I would go so far as to suggest jackal for your interrogation. The information I came up with about him was of a foreign nature. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but the writeup on JAG made it sound like we could expect the foreigners to generally be bad.

I don't know why you would have gotten a foreigner read on me. I don't think this character is British, pretty sure it is American.

[EagleFan]

As of 2422:

IS 3 - henry (2306), sal (2395), Jack (2402)
Thom 3 - PB (2313), Brian (2408), ntn (2413)
Jack 2 - EF (2411), Autumn (2416)
Autumn 1 - path (2388)

[EagleFan]

Removed nfg's vote and updated.

[hoopsguy]

That vote count matches the one that I have.

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, do you have any suggestions for me? I don't think I ever got a hit from the PM I sent you way early in the game.

While we figure things out, and due to just some odd feelings reading while I was out of the game...

Vote Thomkal

suggestion for you brian...hmmm. let's see...what would work...

[Autumn]

I don't know why you would have gotten a foreigner read on me. I don't think this character is British, pretty sure it is American.

No, not British, Vic. Maybe this is better than I thought. Balkan according to the Wiki.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'll prolly sit on my vote for a bit and see which way i want to go...

[BrianD]

suggestion for you brian...hmmm. let's see...what would work...

You may want to pick Autumn for your aggressive interrogation. I was curious to see who would be the first person from the untrusted list to sell another one out, and Autumn suggested interrogating The Jackal. I'm leaning toward the assumption that Autumn is trying to get you to blow your scan on a villager to buy time for the conspiracy.

[EagleFan]

You may want to pick Autumn for your aggressive interrogation. I was curious to see who would be the first person from the untrusted list to sell another one out, and Autumn suggested interrogating The Jackal. I'm leaning toward the assumption that Autumn is trying to get you to blow your scan on a villager to buy time for the conspiracy.

So those on the untrusted list are no longer allowed to try to help the cause? What would you want us on the NT list to do, go after someone from the trusted list or try to help the village find the right one(s) on the NT list?

[Autumn]

If the info doesn't sound suspicious to you, skip on it, DT. But it sounds like Jackal is claiming a different role than his scan gave to me.

[Poli]

Beep, beep, beep, beep...

[EagleFan]

A curious idea. Follow this through before jumping to a decision.

Right now we have 14 people left?

It's either 11-3 or 12-2 I would think. We will ay 11-3 for the sake of this argument as it's the toughest problem we face of the two.

We have 6 in the questionable list. If we basically go through that list, I am okay with being lynched at some point if it gets us a win and all the wolves are on that list we win. Worst case scenario we pick REALLY poorly and pick the 3 villagers from the list first it is still 5-3 and we pick them off one at a time until we win.

Where we run into an issue is if there is a cunning among the trusted. Wouldn't it help us more if DT uses his ability on a potential cunning?


Again, just trying to cover our bases since we are a slam dunk victory here if all the wolves are in the untrusted list.

[saldana]

i think we are going about this the entirely wrong way...we have a very narrow list of suspects and we are spreading out our votes....i am thinking that because of the % needed to lynch being dependent on the time from the last lynch, we should be focusing our votes on one person...theoretically, we could get multiple lynches right after one another and hammer that list...it would actually give the wolves no where to hide and make them vote for each other.

allow me to elaborate further.

lets say we decide to target Isiddiqui...we all vote him except for Thomkal...who thinks the idea is dumb...if Isiddiqui comes up wolf, that gives us Thomkal as the next target, who we all vote for again....rinse, repeat until we go all the way through the list of no trust.

with the clock mechanic the way it is, i think we need to start taking advantage of it instead of falling back upon our habit of one lynch per day.

[saldana]

apparently EF and I are equally as brilliant.

[The Jackal]

No, not British, Vic. Maybe this is better than I thought. Balkan according to the Wiki.

Vic? That's not my name. DT knows my name, I told him on the first day.

[Autumn]

So, you're claming that you're not Victor Drazen, Jackal?

That would be contrary to what my scan showed.

[BrianD]

So those on the untrusted list are no longer allowed to try to help the cause? What would you want us on the NT list to do, go after someone from the trusted list or try to help the village find the right one(s) on the NT list?

That isn't it at all. If the untrusted list is 50% or more conspiracy, that means the conspiracy is in trouble. That also means there is a 50% or better chance that whoever is interrogated will be a conspiracy member. The logical thing for the conspiracy to do is "help out" and feed us a villager to buy some time. For that to work, the suggestion would have to be made quickly so it could be the first suggestion. Fighting over who to interrogate would provide us too much information, so being the first suggestion is a must.

Is there a reason you are so offended by me picking someone not you from the NT list to interrogate? Is there any reason you don't want to see Autumn interrogated?

[DaddyTorgo]

If the info doesn't sound suspicious to you, skip on it, DT. But it sounds like Jackal is claiming a different role than his scan gave to me.

Let me check and see if he ever claimed a name...i believe he did.

[DaddyTorgo]

i think we are going about this the entirely wrong way...we have a very narrow list of suspects and we are spreading out our votes....i am thinking that because of the % needed to lynch being dependent on the time from the last lynch, we should be focusing our votes on one person...theoretically, we could get multiple lynches right after one another and hammer that list...it would actually give the wolves no where to hide and make them vote for each other.

allow me to elaborate further.

lets say we decide to target Isiddiqui...we all vote him except for Thomkal...who thinks the idea is dumb...if Isiddiqui comes up wolf, that gives us Thomkal as the next target, who we all vote for again....rinse, repeat until we go all the way through the list of no trust.

with the clock mechanic the way it is, i think we need to start taking advantage of it instead of falling back upon our habit of one lynch per day.

i very much agree with this FWIW - let's take advantage of the clock, hammer out a couple quick lynches and leave the wolves nowhere to hide

[DaddyTorgo]

Let me check and see if he ever claimed a name...i believe he did.

yep - that's what i thought i remembered.

FWIW guys - Jackal definately claimed a different role than Vic Drazen. So either Jackal or Autumn is a wolf. I see no reason why they shouldn't both be on the block today and we'll see what that brings.

I'm happy to vote either, I just want to get us started in that direction, so don't read too much into this.

VOTE JACKAL

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm still torn about where i'd rather my vote actually end up, i may end up moving to autumn when i get home...

[DaddyTorgo]

So those on the untrusted list are no longer allowed to try to help the cause? What would you want us on the NT list to do, go after someone from the trusted list or try to help the village find the right one(s) on the NT list?

no, please do help

[Thomkal]

That isn't it at all. If the untrusted list is 50% or more conspiracy, that means the conspiracy is in trouble. That also means there is a 50% or better chance that whoever is interrogated will be a conspiracy member. The logical thing for the conspiracy to do is "help out" and feed us a villager to buy some time. For that to work, the suggestion would have to be made quickly so it could be the first suggestion. Fighting over who to interrogate would provide us too much information, so being the first suggestion is a must.

Is there a reason you are so offended by me picking someone not you from the NT list to interrogate? Is there any reason you don't want to see Autumn interrogated?

Perhaps because he's the cunning wolf so he wasn't worried about a scan before we lost our seer, thus his behavior these past few days? I'd vote for him today if I could, but that would just spread the vote out even more.

[The Jackal]

Uh, well I guess I don't have a choice here. I'm George Mason.

Unvote ISidd

Vote Autumn

[The Jackal]

So, you're claming that you're not Victor Drazen, Jackal?

That would be contrary to what my scan showed.

I don't know what kind of scanning you can do, but I am definitely not Victor Drazen.

[The Jackal]

I'd like to take this moment to point out the last person that was set on voting for me, which was Pass, though he didn't claim to have this false info that Autumn does.

I don't know what to say to the rest of you, really. My votes on the first two days were wrong, but most people's were, including DTs. And since then all I've done is vote for wolves, so..

[The Jackal]

And why would I lie about what my name is? It's not like names have any correlation to what kind of power we have. Autumn claiming this business about being "suspicious of foreigners" is odd, considering we seemed to reach the conclusion on Day 1 or maybe even Day 0 that there is no correlation between tv role or nationality and the conspiracy. The first conspirator we caught was Kim Bauer..

[Autumn]

I don't know what kind of scanning you can do, but I am definitely not Victor Drazen.

I can find the name of a player's role. That's all I know. I thought it would be a good idea to scan a foreigner since they're the "villains" on the show. But maybe we caught you at something. Maybe you have some other reason for hiding your name, I don't know.

[The Jackal]

And who was the last foreigner we found out about? NFG as Sumarov. Oh, he happened to be the seer. So I don't really understand the motivation for Autumn here.

[The Jackal]

I can find the name of a player's role. That's all I know. I thought it would be a good idea to scan a foreigner since they're the "villains" on the show. But maybe we caught you at something. Maybe you have some other reason for hiding your name, I don't know.

You thought it would be a good idea to scan a foreigner? But why did you assume I was a foreigner? Maybe I just caught you in spewing some BS.

[The Jackal]

Why would anyone in this game lie about their character's name? Your role seems made up, even.

[Autumn]

And why would I lie about what my name is? It's not like names have any correlation to what kind of power we have. Autumn claiming this business about being "suspicious of foreigners" is odd, considering we seemed to reach the conclusion on Day 1 or maybe even Day 0 that there is no correlation between tv role or nationality and the conspiracy. The first conspirator we caught was Kim Bauer..

No, they don't, which is why I didn't bother mentioning it earlier. However in looking through the list of folks on the non-trust list to decide where to vote it stuck out at me. I looked back at JAG's writeup and noted that it kind of made a deal about how he was a foreigner/villain, but even yet was on our side. It made me think maybe the others weren't.

Seemed like something worth looking at. I just suggested it as something to give DT a basis to interrogate on. I didn't expect that you had faked your name. Interesting though that you both say it's not true but defend the foreigner's names.

[ISiddiqui]

Actually, to be more accurate, Suvarov is listed under the heading of "Presidents and their Wives".

[Autumn]

You thought it would be a good idea to scan a foreigner? But why did you assume I was a foreigner? Maybe I just caught you in spewing some BS.

I thought it would be a good idea for *Jack* to scan a foreigner, by which I mean interrogate a foreigner. Too many differnet things with the same terms, sorry.

[The Jackal]

Weird move, Autumn. Well, I'm confident in you being a wolf now.

[Autumn]

Why would anyone in this game lie about their character's name? Your role seems made up, even.

Made up? I had the same exact role in the game you ran, I believe it was. lol

[The Jackal]

I thought it would be a good idea for *Jack* to scan a foreigner, by which I mean interrogate a foreigner. Too many differnet things with the same terms, sorry.

Alright, so that clears that up. But it still doesn't give any reason why I would lie about what my name is. There is nothing I can think of that would give a person a reason to lie about what their role is in this game unless they are supposed to outlive a certain person, as I think someone mentioned as a role earlier in this one (and a role I've had before in other games) - but that is not my case, and at this point I would tell the truth about it anyways, as I have in games past.

There is just no reason for me to lie about my character name, I am George Mason, I always have been, and I don't have much else to say.

[The Jackal]

Made up? I had the same exact role in the game you ran, I believe it was. lol

But in this game knowing the names of characters gives no correlation to a role. I don't know what role you are referring to.

[Autumn]

Whatever, I'm not going to get in a pissing match about it. The information is there. I'm obviously not of a trusted enough status to be leading any lynch votes. Interrogate me instead if you want and save Jackal for another day. I'd rather you didn't lynch me as I may unsurface someone else, but that will point the way as well.

I've got to go, I'll check back in before or after dinner.

[The Jackal]

Unfortunately I'm now going to be gone until after 9 because of skating. So Autumn will have plenty of chances to continue talking, but I just hope the rest of you consider this carefully.

DT, I'm not going to use my role. If the village really thinks it's smart to lynch me I'll just let it happen. I think I've played a good game for us considering I'm pretty much a vanilla villager in terms of usefulness to anyone.

[The Jackal]

Ha, well at least both of us are going, other people can duke this out.

[Autumn]

But in this game knowing the names of characters gives no correlation to a role. I don't know what role you are referring to.

It's just an information gathering role. You might recall the wolves had a membver with the same ability. I'm not sure how useful it was for them, but it at least allowed DT to cross reference the stories people were telling.

If there was no reason to hide your role in this game, why would Barkeep and Hoops gone through all the trouble of making extra roles? You seem to be missing something.

[kingfc22]

Just got online as I've been busy at work all day.

Looks like this is going to be a Jackal/Autumn lynch decision.

[EagleFan]

That isn't it at all. If the untrusted list is 50% or more conspiracy, that means the conspiracy is in trouble. That also means there is a 50% or better chance that whoever is interrogated will be a conspiracy member. The logical thing for the conspiracy to do is "help out" and feed us a villager to buy some time. For that to work, the suggestion would have to be made quickly so it could be the first suggestion. Fighting over who to interrogate would provide us too much information, so being the first suggestion is a must.

Is there a reason you are so offended by me picking someone not you from the NT list to interrogate? Is there any reason you don't want to see Autumn interrogated?

My point is that we are so focused on the list that no one is thinking about the "after life: of the list. Scanning someone from the list does what? Buys us a victory maybe one lynch sooner if the cunning is not in the trusted list? At that point it leaves us with nothing new to go on once the list is exhausted. If the list is 50% wolf than even if we make the worst possible lynch votes in the history of WW by lynching the 3 villagers first we still win.

If we don't take a shot at looking past this we may be sitting on just one chance to win after the list is gone and if we pick wrong we lose. Why would we not want information to help us make that one last lynch? If we runaway vote we learn nothing if there is a cunning. If we make each vote close enough to have movement we will learn something. For the same reason if we use the scan on a trusted (only chance that a cunning could hurt us) we take a shot at nailing a cunning hiding among us.

I am not saying that there is a cunning there. I am saying that we should play expecting to have to weed one out. That way if it's not there we win and go home happy but if it is than we have gained a lot of information.

Exactly what is wrong with trying to be prepared?

[The Jackal]

If there was no reason to hide your role in this game, why would Barkeep and Hoops gone through all the trouble of making extra roles? You seem to be missing something.

I'm not sure it was necessary considering there were no pre-game role reveals. I might be missing something, but even the wolves were given one of those characters, so why would we run into the situation where two people are claiming the same character?

It's one thing if knowing anyone's character name would give any correlation to a role, but it doesn't.

[hoopsguy]

Going to be out of the thread for most of the next hour while heading home. Will process any required actions upon my arrival.

[EagleFan]

As of 2467:

IS 2 - henry (2306), sal (2395)
Thom 3 - PB (2313), Brian (2408), ntn (2413)
Jack 3 - EF (2411), Autumn (2416), DT (2441)
Autumn 2 - path (2388), Jack (2445)

[EagleFan]

unvote Jack

vote Autumn

[EagleFan]

Just testing a theory.

[PurdueBrad]

unvote Thomkal
vote The Jackal

[PurdueBrad]

Keeping things tied here I think.

[BrianD]

My point is that we are so focused on the list that no one is thinking about the "after life: of the list. Scanning someone from the list does what? Buys us a victory maybe one lynch sooner if the cunning is not in the trusted list? At that point it leaves us with nothing new to go on once the list is exhausted. If the list is 50% wolf than even if we make the worst possible lynch votes in the history of WW by lynching the 3 villagers first we still win.

If we don't take a shot at looking past this we may be sitting on just one chance to win after the list is gone and if we pick wrong we lose. Why would we not want information to help us make that one last lynch? If we runaway vote we learn nothing if there is a cunning. If we make each vote close enough to have movement we will learn something. For the same reason if we use the scan on a trusted (only chance that a cunning could hurt us) we take a shot at nailing a cunning hiding among us.

I am not saying that there is a cunning there. I am saying that we should play expecting to have to weed one out. That way if it's not there we win and go home happy but if it is than we have gained a lot of information.

Exactly what is wrong with trying to be prepared?

So your plan is to interrogate someone on the trusted list that the seer scanned and lynch someone on the NT list? We are just assuming that the cunning - if there is one - would have no voting history that would tell us something after we know more wolves?

I'm not against starting the search for the cunning wolf now, but I don't know that I'd suggest searching for something we don't know exists while ignoring a search for stuff we do know exists. I'd suggest we knock out the wolves now so that the voting ratio is really in our favor while we search for the cunning wolf.

[saldana]

ok, now i am getting really suspicious of purduebrad...eaglefan and i both spelled out a legitimate strategy that DT also likes, and instead of even acknowledging it, he is choosing to keep things tied?

i dont understand the value of that play at this point in the game.

unvote isiddiqui
vote autumn

[saldana]

dt, do you think now might be a good time for me to use my role...i need a little help with a target if you do...it has to be someone in the same category as myself, or someone from the group directly below it in post 2

[PurdueBrad]

Saldana, I didn't read anything yet, I'm in the midst of making dinner and just watching new posts. First post I saw when I came on was EF's vote and I thought I would keep it even. Fault me for being lazy I guess.

Going back when I have time.

[Autumn]

EF, your plan is to interrogate someone on the trusted list? For what? You think the seer can't find the cunning wolf but Jack's interrogation can? Do we have reason to think that's true.

That seems a little crazy to me.

I can't see why exactly I'm getting the votes I am. If I'm telling the truth you lynch me, realize I am, lynch Jackal, I guess, but don't get any more of my ability. If you trust me either lynch Jackal, or if you want to play it safe just interrogate one of us and lynch someone else today. That gives you a clear lynch tomorrow and you still get a lynch today.

I'll move my vote to someone else in that case but now I'm needing it for self preservation it seems.

[Schmidty]

By the way, I am finally here and am catching up right now.

[PurdueBrad]

Saldana, please tell me your plan is the one where we condense votes and get some lynches rather than the one where we waste powers on cleared or at least semi-cleared characters. If it is the former, I'm with you and will move. If it is the latter, then I think it is a bad idea.

[kingfc22]

Vote Autumn

I think Autumn is more likely a wolf than Jackal is at this point.

[Schmidty]

i think we are going about this the entirely wrong way...we have a very narrow list of suspects and we are spreading out our votes....i am thinking that because of the % needed to lynch being dependent on the time from the last lynch, we should be focusing our votes on one person...theoretically, we could get multiple lynches right after one another and hammer that list...it would actually give the wolves no where to hide and make them vote for each other.

allow me to elaborate further.

lets say we decide to target Isiddiqui...we all vote him except for Thomkal...who thinks the idea is dumb...if Isiddiqui comes up wolf, that gives us Thomkal as the next target, who we all vote for again....rinse, repeat until we go all the way through the list of no trust.

with the clock mechanic the way it is, i think we need to start taking advantage of it instead of falling back upon our habit of one lynch per day.

I'm agree with this.

[saldana]

Saldana, please tell me your plan is the one where we condense votes and get some lynches rather than the one where we waste powers on cleared or at least semi-cleared characters. If it is the former, I'm with you and will move. If it is the latter, then I think it is a bad idea.

it is absolutely "the condense votes on the people on the uncleared list" plan...i think we should be trying to get a unanamous vote followed by another one as soon as possible..with the number of cleared players we have, we shouldnt be waiting for a 1 lynch per day anymore.

[saldana]

Vote Autumn

I think Autumn is more likely a wolf than Jackal is at this point.


i agree because i cant see a value in lying about your character name...although i also dont see a value in lying about someone lying about their character name.

[Schmidty]

Uh, well I guess I don't have a choice here. I'm George Mason.

Unvote ISidd

Vote Autumn

Man, that upset you had a few years ago was AWESOME!!!!!

[PurdueBrad]

Definitely following along with this:

unvote Jackal
vote Autumn

[PurdueBrad]

I like going for multiple lynches quickly since we should press our advantage some and big stack the wolves.

[EagleFan]

I like going for multiple lynches quickly since we should press our advantage some and big stack the wolves.

Why? IF, and I say IF, there is a cunning involved in the trusted list this gives them a free place to hide.

[Schmidty]

Ok, after reading (not really contributing -sorry), I see that there really are 3 viable option. Autumn's past few posts have seemed more odd than the others.

Vote Autumn.

[PurdueBrad]

EF, I don't doubt that you're right, there likely is a cunning. I would prefer to attack the known and then start to pick apart the unknown. I am prepared for that very scenario, honestly, but I would really like to see us net two-three more wolves and see where we're at.

[EagleFan]

As of 2467:

IS 1 - henry (2306)
Thom 2 - Brian (2408), ntn (2413)
Jack 2 - Autumn (2416), DT (2441)
Autumn 6 - path (2388), Jack (2445), EF (2469), sal (2474), king (2480), PB (2485)

[DaddyTorgo]

thanks BrianD!!

[EagleFan]

EF, I don't doubt that you're right, there likely is a cunning. I would prefer to attack the known and then start to pick apart the unknown. I am prepared for that very scenario, honestly, but I would really like to see us net two-three more wolves and see where we're at.

But this would give us one chance to get it right and with less infomation. I cannot see how that is a good idea at all.

[PurdueBrad]

Momentum is a bad word to use but it's kind of what I'm arguing, or maybe it is advantage. But I feel we're in a good spot here and I want to make it a great spot by knocking out a couple more wolves before we start some of the other scenarios. I know that there is no real momentum factor but I do like making the other side panic some, I think it can lead to poor decision making.

[EagleFan]

I'd suggest we knock out the wolves now so that the voting ratio is really in our favor while we search for the cunning wolf.

We are. I am not saying we don't vote the list. Voting the list is knocking out the wolves.

[EagleFan]

Momentum is a bad word to use but it's kind of what I'm arguing, or maybe it is advantage. But I feel we're in a good spot here and I want to make it a great spot by knocking out a couple more wolves before we start some of the other scenarios. I know that there is no real momentum factor but I do like making the other side panic some, I think it can lead to poor decision making.

The problem is that we cannot stop until the list is gone. When the list is gone we have one chance, just one chance toget it right or we lose. What is wrong with trying to give ourselves as much information as possible when getting to that one chance (again, IF there is a cunning among the trusted).

[PurdueBrad]

I guess I'm also not sold on anyone having an ability that can 'catch' a cunning wolf unless somebody has said something that I missed (likely, hectic day here). I want to limit our losses, knock out some wolves, and then see what's left. I prefer to stay the conservative path here for once (a rarity for me).

[PurdueBrad]

I guess I do see where you are coming from a bit more EF regarding info. I do see value in what you are saying but our problem is that we take out voters when they are interrogated which could definitely back-fire on us.

[EagleFan]

dola: to comment on the great spot phrase. How is it a great spot when it is 3-1 and we have one chance to get it right and nothing to go on because we wasted 6 straight votes on landslides?

[DaddyTorgo]

Unfortunately I'm now going to be gone until after 9 because of skating. So Autumn will have plenty of chances to continue talking, but I just hope the rest of you consider this carefully.

DT, I'm not going to use my role. If the village really thinks it's smart to lynch me I'll just let it happen. I think I've played a good game for us considering I'm pretty much a vanilla villager in terms of usefulness to anyone.

okay *nods*

[DaddyTorgo]

dt, do you think now might be a good time for me to use my role...i need a little help with a target if you do...it has to be someone in the same category as myself, or someone from the group directly below it in post 2

idk...hmmm

[EagleFan]

I guess I'm also not sold on anyone having an ability that can 'catch' a cunning wolf unless somebody has said something that I missed (likely, hectic day here). I want to limit our losses, knock out some wolves, and then see what's left. I prefer to stay the conservative path here for once (a rarity for me).

I am guessing if anyone can it would be Jack's "intensive interogation". If DT know for certain that he cannot catch the cunning that way than I'll stop arguing that idea right now. But I still think we shouldn't do runaway votes.

[DaddyTorgo]

because if we condense the votes then we'll limit the wolves ability to get kills in hopefully, and the people left will be cleared?

[DaddyTorgo]

I am guessing if anyone can it would be Jack's "intensive interogation". If DT know for certain that he cannot catch the cunning that way than I'll stop arguing that idea right now. But I still think we shouldn't do runaway votes.

i don't know for certain

[EagleFan]

I guess I do see where you are coming from a bit more EF regarding info. I do see value in what you are saying but our problem is that we take out voters when they are interrogated which could definitely back-fire on us.

It sounds like we will be talking one interogation and that would be tomorrow. It we miss today it's still most likley 9-3 meaning there is no way the wolves can gain a percentage advantage to eliminate a trusted.