Werewolf XCVIII - 24 Day Game Over - Post 2899 [Archive] - Page 8

Autumn

07-09-2009, 10:33 PM

Well, this wasn't the evening to have a guest. I guess. Finally caught up. That was pretty crazy. I'm not sure why Henry listed me as a wolf first out of all those possibilities. I'm not, but I'll have to look back at the further explanations to understand.

I got pretty screwed by the surprise votes on Telle tonight as it wasted my ability. I don't really understand all that movement to her. I'm glad that the PM system bought us a wolf kill finally though, that was nice.

Oops now caught up on the newer posts as the thread was locked up. I would never have guessed Danny's ability, that's a surprise. Hopefully DT has what he needs at this point.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 10:34 PM

For about the fourth time, DT - I voted for CR yesterday. I'd like it if people would stop thinking I didn't vote yesterday, as it seriously harms any views of me.

sorry - i typed up that part before i was clear on that

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:35 PM

sorry - i typed up that part before i was clear on that

It's cool. Mass of posts, constant confusion. Thanks, hoops and BK!

ntndeacon

07-09-2009, 10:35 PM

I am ok with this. Lets see how good henry's info is.
Vote Thomkal

henry296

07-09-2009, 10:38 PM

Autumn - I did not list those people in order, just pulled them from the didn't vote for Telle list. I'd be interested in learning how Telle's death impacts your powers.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:39 PM

Let me squeeze off the necessary goodbye pic of Kim.. Dirty conspirator!:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ft5OjI-kGwE/SBELR2AytYI/AAAAAAAAAEY/mQwOKZZEX0c/s400/ElishaCuthbert.jpg

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:40 PM

vote path

We might as well try to narrow down the list a bit and have two candidates. Maybe some movement one way or the other will let us know which to go after next.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:41 PM

Let me squeeze off the necessary goodbye pic of Kim.. Dirty conspirator!:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ft5OjI-kGwE/SBELR2AytYI/AAAAAAAAAEY/mQwOKZZEX0c/s400/ElishaCuthbert.jpg

It's just not the same now after attaching CR's name to it. :)

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:42 PM

vote path

We might as well try to narrow down the list a bit and have two candidates. Maybe some movement one way or the other will let us know which to go after next.

Why are you voting for path, exactly?

Autumn

07-09-2009, 10:43 PM

Autumn - I did not list those people in order, just pulled them from the didn't vote for Telle list. I'd be interested in learning how Telle's death impacts your powers.

I didn't mean the order, I just mean I don't know why you listed a group of us as being wolves but ignored other people who didn't vote Telle. Maybe I don't understand your power.

I just mean that I had chosen to confirm Telle's role tonight, which obviously was a waste. She wasn't in any danger when I left so I thought it was a good bet.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:44 PM

I ask because he was cleared by Henry, is all. Seems like the more prudent choices would come from me, pass, autumn, isidd, thomkal, and king. Out of that list I think the likeliest three are thomkal, pass, and isidd. But that's just my guess, I'll let the semi-cleared players drive most of the discussion.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:47 PM

Why are you voting for path, exactly?

DT's list has him among the bottom tier of the list. After the confusion over Autumn yesterday I wasn't sure if I was going to go with him or path as the second candidate. I basically flipped a coin from there.

henry296

07-09-2009, 10:48 PM

I didn't mean the order, I just mean I don't know why you listed a group of us as being wolves but ignored other people who didn't vote Telle. Maybe I don't understand your power.

I just mean that I had chosen to confirm Telle's role tonight, which obviously was a waste. She wasn't in any danger when I left so I thought it was a good bet.

My first list was a little hasty as I had assumed everyone had voted. My power cleared those who voted with me, but you are correct there were a couple of more potential wolves, which I've later commented on. However, many of those who didn't vote for Telle did not for Chief Rum which is good in my eyes. Schmidty, who didn't vote for either Telle or CR is just as likely a suspect as you based on my knowledge.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 10:49 PM

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:49 PM

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:49 PM

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:49 PM

I forgot about Schmidty, I don't really know where to throw him in this equation.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 10:50 PM

DT's list has him among the bottom tier of the list. After the confusion over Autumn yesterday I wasn't sure if I was going to go with him or path as the second candidate. I basically flipped a coin from there.

maybe my list was a little unclear - the "bottom tier" of my list were people i think were "least likely to be bad" (with autumn the most likely of the 4), not "most likely"

the best votes are in the top group of 5.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:50 PM

I figured it was just some confusion on your part, EF. Pick a better candidate, preferably not me. ;)

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 10:50 PM

I forgot about Schmidty, I don't really know where to throw him in this equation.

schmidty is fine. i didn't list him, did i? therefore he's not a suspect at all.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:51 PM

very true. note that path was 3rd from the bottom of my list. voting from higher up on the list is the logical thing to do.

path was 2nd from bottom, only Autumn was listed ahead of him and I didn't exactly read that as they were ranked in order, just that they were the bottom tier.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:51 PM

schmidty is fine. i didn't list him, did i? therefore he's not a suspect at all.

Right, I thought I remembered at least you and possibly someone else say they didn't suspect Schmidty, but I was mostly trying to think for myself what he's done vote-wise and such.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:53 PM

schmidty is fine. i didn't list him, did i? therefore he's not a suspect at all.

Yesterday you said Autumn wasn't fne, then you said he was, now he's at the bottom tier of your list. Now you tell us Schmidty is fine, is he going to show up on your list tomorrow as not trusted?

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:56 PM

Yesterday you said Autumn wasn't fne, then you said he was, now he's at the bottom tier of your list. Now you tell us Schmidty is fine, is he going to show up on your list tomorrow as not trusted?

Keep in mind the "bottom tier" of DT's list was people that he trusts the most in that post, EF.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:57 PM

vote henry

I still don't trust his claimed power as it seems potentially too powerful, yet no one questions this?

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 10:58 PM

no.

there was obviously confusion with autumn regarding the word "roles" and what was going on there. after that was cleared up i said that autumn was okay in my book, but that didn't mean he was on the "HT" list.

i said autumn was on my "MT" list today. which he is. my "MT" list is the bottom tier of those who are uncleared.

schmidty is not listed as uncleared or on the MT list. should i spell it out more?

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:58 PM

Interesting.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 10:59 PM

Would be a ballsy move for a wolf to make, EF. How much time would it buy them?

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 10:59 PM

Keep in mind the "bottom tier" of DT's list was people that he trusts the most in that post, EF.

I need to read all of the "longer" posts instead of skimming and looking at lists. :)

When I see bottom tier I figured that meant the least trusted / most distrusted.

No wonder he was steering us wrong, his lists probably even confuse him. :)

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:02 PM

Basically, EF, you're suggesting that henry is a wolf and that multiple of PB, ntn, nfg, sal, and path are wolves?

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:03 PM

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:03 PM

Would be a ballsy move for a wolf to make, EF. How much time would it buy them?

Could there be a traitor type role? It would be a good play for a traitor, one that may put the game close to end game as it gets everyone into mob mentality and nothing is learned of vote history for two days plus we lose two villagers in a lynch (figuring the traitor counts in our numbers) and in night kills for a 4-0 run for the wolves without them having to risk anything.

Kind of convenient that this reveal came out after a wolf is lost.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:04 PM

Could there be a traitor type role? It would be a good play for a traitor, one that may put the game close to end game as it gets everyone into mob mentality and nothing is learned of vote history for two days plus we lose two villagers in a lynch (figuring the traitor counts in our numbers) and in night kills for a 4-0 run for the wolves without them having to risk anything.

Kind of convenient that this reveal came out after a wolf is lost.

It certainly would probably buy at least 4-0 for the wolves if henry and one or more of those other guys are wolves. Is that enough to get them close to endgame, you think? It seems like we have enough people left, but people are dying frequently.

path12

07-09-2009, 11:05 PM

Wow.

Based on my post after Day 1 on the middle votes for Kwhit, led me to Telle today and I felt CR was ok b/c I didn't think his day 1 vote was based. I think Jackal is good and the frustration is real.

I wish someone would confirm Danny's story before I vote. However, given my statements above, I'll pick nfg22 for now but could change with more info as last nights exhcange seems a bit odd.

vote nfg22

OK, I'm just catching up and this is fascinating, but henry, WTF? Why the throwaway?

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:05 PM

I guess we see what Pass, ISidd, et. al have to say for themselves.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:06 PM

lol

henry's not a wolf guys. (standard disclaimer: unless he's the cunning)

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:06 PM

i steered us wrong for 2 days - that's hardly any worse than we would have done without my info.

and the result of those 2 days is a very tight list of potential suspects (with or without henry it was coming out tonight i'd say...henry helps us lop off path and saldana off of the suspects list, which is good).

hardly steering us wrong.

If you took the info I gave you yesterday we would have lynched CR instead of clap so yes that is steering us wrong, I gave you the info and then I voted for him so I was willing to test the validity of it. If you took the other info I gave you to protect Michelle we may have gotten lucky with a wolf lynch day one instead of a villager so yes that is steering us wrong.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:07 PM

lol

henry's not a wolf guys. (standard disclaimer: unless he's the cunning)

Well that's good, then. I mean I was just seeing where EF was going with this line of thought, gotta explore it all.

henry296

07-09-2009, 11:10 PM

EagleFan - I don't think the role was too powerful. I think we just got lucky with my role that there were no wolves who voted with me and it was later in the game than probably originally intended. When I first got my role I thought it was a nice, but likely would tell us that in a list of 7-10 there were 1-2 wolves which would have been nice but nearly the type of CoT it generated. That likely would've been the result if I voted for a villager on day 1 or 2. We got a little fortunate that I didn't use my power until later in the game.

For example, on the first day I was would've voted for Kwhit to make sure to use my power except I didn't finish reading until after the lynch so I didn't vote.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:10 PM

If you took the info I gave you yesterday we would have lynched CR instead of clap so yes that is steering us wrong, I gave you the info and then I voted for him so I was willing to test the validity of it. If you took the other info I gave you to protect Michelle we may have gotten lucky with a wolf lynch day one instead of a villager so yes that is steering us wrong.

i didn't know who michelle was. kwhit never gave me his character-name!

and as for yesterday - clap was pinging everybody wrong and was on a list just like CR. Your info on CR was good yes, but your info on the other two people was wrong, and frankly I didn't have a reason to trust you yet over anybody else.

still don't.

how many games have there ever been where the village has pitched a shutout, only lynching wolves? ever? it's not going to happen...villagers will die. Jeezus...Kwhit didn't even complain this much about his dying. So yeah...we lynched a couple villagers...big frigging deal.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:10 PM

lol

henry's not a wolf guys. (standard disclaimer: unless he's the cunning)

The traitor is not a wolf in most all cases so take your lol and shove it into a list. I am trying to get us to cover all of our bases and be prepared for what could be a very good play.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:11 PM

i'm not going to apologize because we lynched 2 villagers instead of possibly pitching a perfect game. that's ridiculous, and frankly it's making you look very wolfish.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:12 PM

I'm smelling desperation.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:12 PM

i didn't know who michelle was. kwhit never gave me his character-name!

and as for yesterday - clap was pinging everybody wrong and was on a list just like CR. Your info on CR was good yes, but your info on the other two people was wrong, and frankly I didn't have a reason to trust you yet over anybody else.

still don't.

how many games have there ever been where the village has pitched a shutout, only lynching wolves? ever? it's not going to happen...villagers will die. Jeezus...Kwhit didn't even complain this much about his dying. So yeah...we lynched a couple villagers...big frigging deal.

What other two people? I told you that the list said it potentially included at least one wolf, not that they were all wolves. It said Danny and Telle were unknown and CR was questionable. Based on what we have seen that list was pretty much dead on by my interpretation.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:12 PM

Wasn't there that one game where Alan or someone nailed all 4 wolves in one post? Maybe there were 5 and it wasn't a shutout, but we definitely lynched a bunch of wolves in a row.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:21 PM

i'm not going to apologize because we lynched 2 villagers instead of possibly pitching a perfect game. that's ridiculous, and frankly it's making you look very wolfish.

Do you even listen to yourself? I have handed you information on a wolf and two that were most likely good if you read into the list. It's not about "pitching a perfect game", it's about tryig to keep from potentially being led into a dead end. Personally henry's claimed power seems like a desperate ploy if you ask me. Yet you have now twice tried to bring me up for a vote despite my proving to be an asset to the village.

Vote for me, that's really smart. Especially if henry is the traitor, then you just cost us the game.

I propose one simple vote, we give henry's claim a test by making him the second candidate. It will be obvious if a wolf run happens based on his list. If the second candiate gets lynched and is a wolf, great for us he is corrct and we win. If he gets lynched and we find out exactly what he said his powers were then we go right back to the list and we win. It's a win/win situation yet you are too damn stubborn to see it.

path12

07-09-2009, 11:24 PM

Sorry, misread that. I thought that DT's list took henry's into account.

unvote path

Thank you!

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:26 PM

I say we bring henry and one from his list up for lynch vote. As laid out above we learn exactly what we need to know either way. If he is telling the truth his power has been shot anyway and is of no use from here out.

The seer role should scan someone else from the list. Jackal seems to be vocal about his vote, maybe him? We either find another wolf with that scan or clear someone from the questionable list. At that point it is a slam dunk victory.

My concern is worst case scenario. Best case henry is telling the truch and we win no matter what at this point. Worst case he is the traitor and is leading us down a path to end game for the wolves.

Our goal should be learning as much as possible with every lynch. Making henry the second candidate achieves that.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:28 PM

Do you even listen to yourself? I have handed you information on a wolf and two that were most likely good if you read into the list. It's not about "pitching a perfect game", it's about tryig to keep from potentially being led into a dead end. Personally henry's claimed power seems like a desperate ploy if you ask me. Yet you have now twice tried to bring me up for a vote despite my proving to be an asset to the village.

Vote for me, that's really smart. Especially if henry is the traitor, then you just cost us the game.

I propose one simple vote, we give henry's claim a test by making him the second candidate. It will be obvious if a wolf run happens based on his list. If the second candiate gets lynched and is a wolf, great for us he is corrct and we win. If he gets lynched and we find out exactly what he said his powers were then we go right back to the list and we win. It's a win/win situation yet you are too damn stubborn to see it.

you're overstating things - the first time i said i was "leaning towards a vote for you" and never even put one on you.

WTF is with everyone having their panties in a wad this game?

Henry's list matches up with mine though (with the exception of eliminating two additional suspects - one of whom i have as questionable and one who i hope to move off the list entirely). And we've arrived at them through entirely different sources...what do you have to say about that?

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:32 PM

Either way, I am going to get some sleep.

Please think over what I have proposed. How is that a desperate move? If I was a wolf why would I offer up CR on day 2 when no wolves were lost as of yet, especially with his role?

I am simply trying to keep us from potentially being led the wrong way. We hedge our bets and win either way.

henry296

07-09-2009, 11:32 PM

I'm off to bed for the evening and won't be able to respond until tomorrow evening by then I hope we have a lynch. I think Thomkal is the right place to start given his unwillingness to move towards CR.

Sure you can test to see if I'm the traiotr since we have already got the pool of wolves and one mis-step won't cost the game with about 12/13 villagers and 4 wolves left. However, you will be wrong. Also, does the traitor usually know the identies of the wolves?

I still believe that with EagleFan's power he is good, but the harder he keeps pushing, the more likely I will be to consider you as one of the wolves. Especially with four wolves left, I can't even see how this would be a end-game play.

I'll throw this out there now, but the only way my list could lead us astray is if there is a cunning wolf and it caused me to be told there were no conspirators and there is really one. As we get closer to the end, we should be able to figure it out.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:32 PM

that being said - we can at least give your idea a shot...sure.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:33 PM

you're overstating things - the first time i said i was "leaning towards a vote for you" and never even put one on you.

WTF is with everyone having their panties in a wad this game?

Henry's list matches up with mine though (with the exception of eliminating two additional suspects - one of whom i have as questionable and one who i hope to move off the list entirely). And we've arrived at them through entirely different sources...what do you have to say about that?

See the results of the first two lynches. I can't exactly trust what you have on your list. None of us should blindly trust that.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:33 PM

hmmm

UNVOTE EAGLEFAN

path12

07-09-2009, 11:34 PM

Basically, EF, you're suggesting that henry is a wolf and that multiple of PB, ntn, nfg, sal, and path are wolves?

I prefer to believe henry for selfish reasons.

ntn has proved himself fairly effectively. As I think I've mentioned nfg comes off to me as sensitive misguided villager. DT seems to feel all right about saldana. That leaves me, PB and henry if you want to go this route.

PB is being investigated (did I see that somewhere?) so he should become clear. I've given DT my info and see no need to reveal it in public.

I don't know. I think it's easier to believe henry's story than not.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:35 PM

It seems like a very risky play unless henry is cunning and made up his powers. But that seems doubtful.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:36 PM

See the results of the first two lynches. I can't exactly trust what you have on your list. None of us should blindly trust that.

LOL

i explicitly stated that i didn't have any degree of trust in either of those first two lynched people. :banghead::banghead:

i find it curious how you're so against trusting any of my information despite the fact that i am the only villager that you know is good and a huge asset to the village.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:39 PM

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:43 PM

I'm with DT on that one, EF. He never suggested he felt strongly that KWhit or clap were bad. He never even really suggested he had any info, it was just suspicions. Now these lists are being based off of people's abilities.

your last sentence is incorrect. these lists now are based off of more than that (with the exception of ntn and purduebrad)

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:43 PM

Sure you can test to see if I'm the traiotr since we have already got the pool of wolves and one mis-step won't cost the game with about 12/13 villagers and 4 wolves left. However, you will be wrong. Also, does the traitor usually know the identies of the wolves?

Bare with me here:

If there are 4 wolves left it is 12-4 now (if I counted right there are 16 people left)

If henry is the traitor and we lynch someone from his list that is a villager it is 10-4 after the night kill.

What do we do next? Do we lynch him or hope that we just picked the wrong person from his list?

If we take option A from above we drop to 8-4 and are back to square one. Not end game but it puts us close enough for them as we will have wasted several days on hunches and then trickery by the traitor.

If we chose option B we end up in a really bad position as we lynch a villager and go to 8-4 before turning on henry and that lynch makes it 6-4. We are then one bad lynch away from losing.

This is assuming the wolves can't make multiple kills. They had a kill and an attempt on Jack tonight based on the write up. If they can do multiple kills again it becomes that much more dangerous.

Maybe I am overthinking but at least we can learn the truth if we make him the second candidate. If he is what he says we are at 10-4 and have a very narrow list to chose from (in which the votes should probably be able to tell us who is bad). Especially if we can scan someone from the list tonight as we can potentially narrow that list down even more.

I see no way that we can lose by taking that approach.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:44 PM

your last sentence is incorrect. these lists now are based off of more than that (with the exception of ntn and purduebrad)

I meant based on other people's abilities, such as scanning, interrogating, things that produce real evidence. Am I wrong about that?

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:46 PM

I think, EF, that DT is suggesting he knows henry is good unless he is cunning, which means he has gotten a scan by some means, which means the only way your scenario works is if henry is the cunning. Is that right?

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:46 PM

I don't argue with your math though, I don't want it to be 8-4 like that.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:47 PM

Especially since I've watched multiple seasons of 24, and most of them have threats of mass-killing, which can't bode well for us. I wouldn't put it past hoops and BK to have death girls and such running around in the form of nuclear weapons or airborne gases.

path12

07-09-2009, 11:48 PM

EF, are you suggesting not to vote for say Thomkal and instead take a shot on henry's list?

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:48 PM

I think he's suggesting we vote for henry instead of thomkal

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:49 PM

at this point the seer should continue to stay hidden btw - until there is either another wolf that they discover (if we are not on that person already that day), or until they can add say...3 more people to the CoT (the two people who are linked for instance, by scanning the one with the longer screenname, and then someone else who is on the list of suspected people)

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:50 PM

I meant based on other people's abilities, such as scanning, interrogating, things that produce real evidence. Am I wrong about that?

you are correct about that

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:50 PM

I'm with DT on that one, EF. He never suggested he felt strongly that KWhit or clap were bad. He never even really suggested he had any info, it was just suspicions. Now these lists are being based off of people's abilities.

I am just trying to give us a way to cover all of our bases and guarantee a win even under the worst case scenario.

How can what I proposed become a bad thing? At worst it delays our victory by a day.

I still can't believe that no one has questioned henry's claimed ability. I think that sounds potentially too powerful to be true. Great for us if it is but I have always held the belief that no power should have the ability to produce potentially multiple hits and thus change the game in one moment to end game as it pretty much discounts what everyone else within the game has done.

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:52 PM

It doesn't sound that powerful. He saved it for a good time when he seems to have gotten lucky by having no wolves vote with him.

Though now that I think about it, somewhat strange that no wolves would be on Telle with CR in the running?

The Jackal

07-09-2009, 11:54 PM

We could just lynch Thomkal and deal with the henry situation tomorrow though, EF. It'd give people another day to gather evidence that potentially proved or disproved what henry said.

DaddyTorgo

07-09-2009, 11:55 PM

I am just trying to give us a way to cover all of our bases and guarantee a win even under the worst case scenario.

How can what I proposed become a bad thing? At worst it delays our victory by a day.

I still can't believe that no one has questioned henry's claimed ability. I think that sounds potentially too powerful to be true. Great for us if it is but I have always held the belief that no power should have the ability to produce potentially multiple hits and thus change the game in one moment to end game as it pretty much discounts what everyone else within the game has done.

Suppose we lynch henry - what if the PM that we get doesn't fully spell out every inch of his powers? Are you going to believe him then, or not?

Cuz I can see if you're a wolf how you'd hope for that and then twist it to fit your ends

path12

07-09-2009, 11:56 PM

I still can't believe that no one has questioned henry's claimed ability. I think that sounds potentially too powerful to be true. Great for us if it is but I have always held the belief that no power should have the ability to produce potentially multiple hits and thus change the game in one moment to end game as it pretty much discounts what everyone else within the game has done.

How powerful is it if it comes back saying there was one wolf in that group? Not very.

It's the fact that nobody in that group came back as a wolf that makes it powerful.......and it's also a pretty unlikely result. I think we caught a break.

Now, if we get nowhere in the next day or so, I'm more than willing to revisit the idea. But right now I think we've got more productive outlets (and yes, I realize that being on the list might affect how you read this post).

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:56 PM

I think he's suggesting we vote for henry instead of thomkal

I say put someone from henry's list up against henry. I would rather we have a voting history instead of a slam dunk runaway. Personally, I would rather see henry lynched first to see if he is telling the truth. If he is then we go after his list for the win. If he is the traitor and was lying to us than we have only lost one day. From there we look at DT's list, most likely the ones that henry clears with his list.

EagleFan

07-09-2009, 11:57 PM

Suppose we lynch henry - what if the PM that we get doesn't fully spell out every inch of his powers? Are you going to believe him then, or not?

Cuz I can see if you're a wolf how you'd hope for that and then twist it to fit your ends

Every snippet that we have gotten after death/lynch spells out the powers. It should be pretty obvious.

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 12:06 AM

A bit tipsy, but I'm glad to see that we got one of the wolves in CR. I also am a little bit suspicious of henry's power (and not just because he seems to finger me) for the simple reason that I think ER is correct that it would be suspicious for none of the wolves to vote for Telle considering that she was the first person to start hammering on CR. You would think at least one would try to protect their own, right? The fact that none did appears to be very weird.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:08 AM

How powerful is it if it comes back saying there was one wolf in that group? Not very.

It's the fact that nobody in that group came back as a wolf that makes it powerful.......and it's also a pretty unlikely result. I think we caught a break.

Now, if we get nowhere in the next day or so, I'm more than willing to revisit the idea. But right now I think we've got more productive outlets (and yes, I realize that being on the list might affect how you read this post).

No power should be that potentially powerful. The games should be decided by the choices the players make and not one power that could potentially produce multiple hits and end the game. If it is his power than so be it. We learn, we lynch, we win. How simple can it be in that case?

If we get nowhere in the next day or so? :banghead: That is just what the wolves would want. If we get nowhere in the next day or so than we have almost handed them the game as we will have learned NOTHING. What possible problem could you have with this if you are not a wolf? At worst it potentially delays us one f*&#*ng day. At best it keeps us from wasting "a day or so" WITHOUT LEARNING ANYTHING. This IS the most productive outlet.

I am dumbfounded how anyone that is a villager can see this as a bad idea? Hell, with the lynch percentage rules it may not even be one full day that we lose as we can pretty much lynch away if we see he is telling the truth.

path12

07-10-2009, 12:12 AM

No power should be that potentially powerful. The games should be decided by the choices the players make and not one power that could potentially produce multiple hits and end the game. If it is his power than so be it. We learn, we lynch, we win. How simple can it be in that case?

If we get nowhere in the next day or so? :banghead: That is just what the wolves would want. If we get nowhere in the next day or so than we have almost handed them the game as we will have learned NOTHING. What possible problem could you have with this if you are not a wolf? At worst it potentially delays us one f*&#*ng day. At best it keeps us from wasting "a day or so" WITHOUT LEARNING ANYTHING. This IS the most productive outlet.

I am dumbfounded how anyone that is a villager can see this as a bad idea? Hell, with the lynch percentage rules it may not even be one full day that we lose as we can pretty much lynch away if we see he is telling the truth.

Well, personally I'm pretty dumbfounded that you would want to take the momentum we got from today's lynch and reveals and ignore them in favor of an angle that frankly doesn't seem very high percentage to me. And banging your head against the wall at comments that are trying to engage you doesn't compel me to pursue the conversation much further.

But hey, investigate away. I'm not convinced though and will be looking at other angles.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:17 AM

oh man - guys henry won't be on until like 8:30 tomorrow night.

so we might have to wait some time for a lynch. i was just thinking that we could certainly use the help of a particular individual with this one...

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:21 AM

Well, personally I'm pretty dumbfounded that you would want to take the momentum we got from today's lynch and reveals and ignore them in favor of an angle that frankly doesn't seem very high percentage to me. And banging your head against the wall at comments that are trying to engage you doesn't compel me to pursue the conversation much further.

But hey, investigate away. I'm not convinced though and will be looking at other angles.

What other angles can you possibly investigate? You seem to believe henry and if he is telling the truth it is GAME OVER and nothing left to investigate.

If he is lying we learn nothing as we lynch a villager and then lynch him. and are just closer to losing.

If we lynch him and he is telling the truth all we do is WIN ONE DAY LATER.

If we lynch him and find out he is lying we learn a lot and don't waste time following a cold trail.

What is so difficult to understand here?

We hedge out bets and increase our odds. What can we possibly lose by doing this? Not one person can answer that.

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 12:22 AM

You think that'll be positive for the village, eh?

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 12:22 AM

That was a question for DT, btw.

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 12:23 AM

What other angles can you possibly investigate? You seem to believe henry and if he is telling the truth it is GAME OVER and nothing left to investigate.

If he is lying we learn nothing as we lynch a villager and then lynch him. and are just closer to losing.

If we lynch him and he is telling the truth all we do is WIN ONE DAY LATER.

If we lynch him and find out he is lying we learn a lot and don't waste time following a cold trail.

What is so difficult to understand here?

We hedge out bets and increase our odds. What can we possibly lose by doing this? Not one person can answer that.

Well I mean it's not game over, it's not like we'd have every single wolf nailed down. We'd have a pretty small group to choose from, but there seem to be a lot of things happening in this game.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:33 AM

Well I mean it's not game over, it's not like we'd have every single wolf nailed down. We'd have a pretty small group to choose from, but there seem to be a lot of things happening in this game.

We would have a list of what? 6 people with 3 or 4 of them being wolves?

If there are 4 we would be sitting at 10-4. Even if we pick the wrong two on the first two chances it's still 6-4 and we would pick them off one at a time after that.

If there are 3 then we are at 11-3. If we pick the first 3 wrong it's still 5-3 and we pick them off one at a time.

Worst case scenario is that he is a traitor who is lying. We lynch a villager and are at 10-4 but with no good list to go on. If we then lynch him to get rid of the potential confusion he could try to cause it's 8-4 and we still have no good list.

Weigh risk versus reward and it looks clear to me. We can basically run out the clock by kneeling. Why do we want to risk throwing the ball?

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 12:37 AM

I wouldn't just assume there is going to be a normal lynch/kill timeline in this game, man.

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 12:38 AM

But I definitely understand your argument. It does seem unlikely he's the cunning wolf, but it's possible.

I still find it likelier that Thomkal is a wolf, but I'll sleep on what you said.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:38 AM

We would have a list of what? 6 people with 3 or 4 of them being wolves?

If there are 4 we would be sitting at 10-4. Even if we pick the wrong two on the first two chances it's still 6-4 and we would pick them off one at a time after that.

If there are 3 then we are at 11-3. If we pick the first 3 wrong it's still 5-3 and we pick them off one at a time.

Worst case scenario is that he is a traitor who is lying. We lynch a villager and are at 10-4 but with no good list to go on. If we then lynch him to get rid of the potential confusion he could try to cause it's 8-4 and we still have no good list.

Weigh risk versus reward and it looks clear to me. We can basically run out the clock by kneeling. Why do we want to risk throwing the ball?

no good list to go on? how about my list that matches his and was arrived at by completely different means? are you just throwing that out entirely??

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:42 AM

no good list to go on? how about my list that matches his and was arrived at by completely different means? are you just throwing that out entirely??

I'll say it again. If henry is the traitor how much can we trust that list?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:42 AM

are you sitting there trying to build a case for throwing out my list EagleFan??
really??

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:43 AM

Still no one person has offered any valid reason for why this is a bad idea. Anyone?

hoopsguy

07-10-2009, 12:44 AM

BK is out for the night and I'll be hit (and mostly miss) for the next couple of hours ... don't break anything for awhile, OK?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:45 AM

I'll say it again. If henry is the traitor how much can we trust that list?

wow. really??

VOTE EAGLEFAN

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:45 AM

are you sitting there trying to build a case for throwing out my list EagleFan??
really??

I am trying to cover our bases. What is wrong with that? It guarantees us a win and keeps us from any potential shenanigans.

Tell me how much you can trust your list if henry turns up traitor? Then your arguement of "arrived at the same list" doesn't hold much water.

I am not saying that this is the case but why not take precautions to make sure it isn't.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:46 AM

But I definitely understand your argument. It does seem unlikely he's the cunning wolf, but it's possible.

I still find it likelier that Thomkal is a wolf, but I'll sleep on what you said.

Not worried about cunning. It wouldn't be a good play if he were cunning. Worried about traitor. This is 24 after all so why wouldn't there be a traitor?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:49 AM

Tell me how much you can trust your list if henry turns up traitor? Then your arguement of "arrived at the same list" doesn't hold much water.

100%

my list is based on my interrogations, soothsayer results, and seer scans. it has absolutely nothing to do with henry's list. the two are entirely unrelated - they just both happen to arrive at the same conclusions.

i'll put that up against your crazy theories 7 days of the week, and twice on sundays.

i think it's becoming increasingly clear to me minute by minute that you're most likely a wolf grasping at straws or else off-your-rocker.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:50 AM

notice how EagleFan is trying to build a case already to throw out my list everyone - just want to point that out very clearly to everyone.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:51 AM

wow. really??

VOTE EAGLEFAN

How thick are you? It's simple logic. If henry ends up being the traitor and has presented the same list that you have (which is not correct as only 2 of the 4 you listed are the same so that throws that out the door) than how much can that list be trusted (unless you think the traitor is going to give us the actual list of wolves). Don't get your damn panties in a bunch because someone makes a valid point.

It's one freaking day to test the theory. Are you that fragile that you are afraid of the results? One day, one test. If he is telling the truth I tip my hat to him and say thank you for winning the game for us.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:52 AM

How thick are you? It's simple logic. If henry ends up being the traitor and has presented the same list that you have (which is not correct as only 2 of the 4 you listed are the same so that throws that out the door) than how much can that list be trusted (unless you think the traitor is going to give us the actual list of wolves). Don't get your damn panties in a bunch because someone makes a valid point.

It's one freaking day to test the theory. Are you that fragile that you are afraid of the results? One day, one test. If he is telling the truth I tip my hat to him and say thank you for winning the game for us.

you're reading my list wrong.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:53 AM

our lists are identical except his list eliminates two people off mine.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:55 AM

oh so now you don't want to have an actual two-player race with henry and someone else? you'd rather have us pile on henry in a runaway?? i can't vote for you?

path12

07-10-2009, 12:56 AM

Still no one person has offered any valid reason for why this is a bad idea. Anyone?

Actually, I've said it was a bad idea because it takes us away from the momentum we just got, and DT said it was a bad idea because it matches up pretty well with his list......

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 12:58 AM

i'm actually okay with making it a two-person race tomorrow, but now EagleFan seems to be saying i can't vote for him (implying we should all pile on Henry in a runaway despite what he said earlier about wanting a 2-person race), and also trying to lay the framework for discarding the list of cleared/uncleared people that we have. And that to me screams desperate wolf (maybe just looking to get henry lynched in revenge as they feel the game is slipping away?)

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:00 AM

notice how EagleFan is trying to build a case already to throw out my list everyone - just want to point that out very clearly to everyone.

What is your f$#*&ng problem with this list? I am getting tired of hearing your whining about someone "questioning your list".

I am offering potential scenario in which we could lose and lose badly and a way to cover up for it. Can you understand that if henry is the traitor and has the "same" list it means we need to rethink the list.

How many damn times do I have to say it? We make one vote to test henry's story. What are you afraid of?

If henry is valid than I will be happy to admit that I am wrong as we win the game. If henry turns up traitor are you going to be stubborn enough to insist we continue to lynch people who were on his list just because they were on yours?

I am asking that we be flexible enough to consider the possibility that he is lying to us. I can't buy that a power would have that much affect on the game and to be honest it would take away from the win in my eyes.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 01:03 AM

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 01:07 AM

What is your f$#*&ng problem with this list? I am getting tired of hearing your whining about someone "questioning your list".

I am offering potential scenario in which we could lose and lose badly and a way to cover up for it. Can you understand that if henry is the traitor and has the "same" list it means we need to rethink the list.

How many damn times do I have to say it? We make one vote to test henry's story. What are you afraid of?

If henry is valid than I will be happy to admit that I am wrong as we win the game. If henry turns up traitor are you going to be stubborn enough to insist we continue to lynch people who were on his list just because they were on yours?

I am asking that we be flexible enough to consider the possibility that he is lying to us. I can't buy that a power would have that much affect on the game and to be honest it would take away from the win in my eyes.

fuck that - yes i will respond.

No I cannot understand that if henry has the same list we have to rethink the list. Because the lists are INDEPENDENT! He arrived at his, that's great. Meantime, I was INDEPENDENTLY, WITHOUT ANY INPUT FROM HIM, arriving at the same list. My list does not depend on his for validity in any way, shape, or form.

And if henry turns up traitor yes i will continue to insist we lynch people who were on his list/my list BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE CANNOT BE CUNNING WOLVES AND THEREFORE THERE MUST BE ALL THE WOLVES EXCEPT A POTENTIAL CUNNING AMONG THEM!!!!

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:11 AM

Actually, I've said it was a bad idea because it takes us away from the momentum we just got, and DT said it was a bad idea because it matches up pretty well with his list......

Momentum? This isn't college football. Momentum has nothing to do with WW.

Does it match up with everyone's list? Matching the list is not an arguement for why this is a bad idea, it's more of an arguement for just giong after the list (adding value to one side does not prove the other bad).

What is lost by making this a two person race with henry and someone on his list? If henry goes first we learn. If he doesn't we can still learn no matter what the results of the lynch are (who tried to save who).

Like I said. We can run the clock out by kneeling down, why do we want to throw a pass, even if it is a "safe" pass.

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 01:15 AM

Where's Poli when he's really needed.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:20 AM

fuck that - yes i will respond.

No I cannot understand that if henry has the same list we have to rethink the list. Because the lists are INDEPENDENT! He arrived at his, that's great. Meantime, I was INDEPENDENTLY, WITHOUT ANY INPUT FROM HIM, arriving at the same list. My list does not depend on his for validity in any way, shape, or form.

And if henry turns up traitor yes i will continue to insist we lynch people who were on his list/my list BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE CANNOT BE CUNNING WOLVES AND THEREFORE THERE MUST BE ALL THE WOLVES EXCEPT A POTENTIAL CUNNING AMONG THEM!!!!

You are pretty thick stubborn. I am not saying that everyone on his list is cunning. I am not saying that the list is definitely bad. I am saying that ON THE CHANCE THAT HE IS A TRAITOR IT MOST CERTAINLY BRINGS THE LIST INTO QUESTION. It's a simple thing to grasp.

Chance of henry being the traitor 1 in 13 (figuring you already know the seer and you are out of the equation for him being the traitor and I know PB's role and have had it confirmed by another and it seems legit). List = questionable

Chance of henry not being the traitor 12 in 13. List = good

I am not saying your precious list is bad. I am saying it IS questionable if henry turns out to be the traitor. How hard is that to understand?

I am also saying that your lists are NOT the same. You list 4 people, he lists 4 primary people. Of those only 2 are the same. That does not sound like the "same list" to me.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:22 AM

Why would you insist that we lynch people on his list if he is a traitor? That makes no sense at all. Do you actually think that he would give us a list of actual woves if he were the traitor?

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:25 AM

I'm out. Hopefully everyone else wil be able to see my reasoning. How can that list be good if henry is the traitor? It would be the dumbest move in WW history to give us the actual list of wolves as the traitor. Yet DT is too damn stubborn to admit this and thinks that by some strange event the list will still be wolves if henry is the traitor.

hoopsguy

07-10-2009, 01:25 AM

Let's try to keep the conversation civil and not have something spiral here ... not like that would ever happen in a werewolf game.

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 01:27 AM

Let's try to keep the conversation civil and not have something spiral here ... not like that would ever happen in a werewolf game.

You can hire out The Jester for disciplinary action. And.. I'm going to sleep.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:38 AM

Let's try to keep the conversation civil and not have something spiral here ... not like that would ever happen in a werewolf game.

But Lathum's not here. I thought that void needed filled. :devil:

Poli

07-10-2009, 05:53 AM

Beep, beep, beep, beep...

Poli

07-10-2009, 05:54 AM

Where's Poli when he's really needed.
Beep, beep, beep, beep...

henry296

07-10-2009, 06:10 AM

Though now that I think about it, somewhat strange that no wolves would be on Telle with CR in the running?

I had to check something else before leaving for work, so I thought I pop on for a second.

I had a similar thought, but remember CR was on Telle so there was a wolf on her. At the time of CR's death, he was not the leading vote getter, so I don't think the wolves necessarily felt it important to get another vote on her with a number of people who hadn't voted yet.

henry296

07-10-2009, 06:18 AM

One final thought.

I'd argue that without my reveal the wolves are in a decent place with likely 4 remaining. Therefore, reducing the need for such a dramatic play. However, if the majority thinks that I need to be sacrificed to prove my list, go ahead b/c we are going to win anway. I'm willing to stand on my sword since I had nothing to the game after last night.

While EagleFan's is good to pose the questions about my loyalties, I don't think a play to make it 8-4 with still lots of other potential for being discovered is a good wolf/traitor move.

Let me pose on more thing for validation. i mentioned that I learned the name of the character who also voted for Telle. That person is Sherry Palmer and I think at least two people can vouch for that fact.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 06:30 AM

Damn, we can't PM? I'll catch up on the rest of this when I get to work. DT, let me know if you want me of service here.

PurdueBrad

07-10-2009, 07:09 AM

That person is Sherry Palmer and I think at least two people can vouch for that fact.

Well, I can assume that since I have not revealed my identity to anyone, that the other person that can vouch for me being Sherry Palmer is a seer of some sort. So rather than make them do it, I am Sherry Palmer.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 07:34 AM

I am also saying that your lists are NOT the same. You list 4 people, he lists 4 primary people. Of those only 2 are the same. That does not sound like the "same list" to me.

Oops - you're misreading my list. The 4 people that I listed on separate lines were the BOTTOM of my list (the "most trusted of the least trusted"). Everyone else I listed in paragraph form above that, and that is the list that matches up with henry's (except his actually removes two from the bottom of mine).

*shaking my head* guess I should go back and list that out more clearly

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 07:37 AM

can BrianD talk again?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 07:44 AM

Reposted with bolding because people seem to be missing the top part of my list.

Bottom line (assuming no cunning, although i think that may end up being faulty - but we cross that bridge when we get to it): our wolves lie in the group of:

Untrusted:
Thomkal, Jackal, kingfc22, EagleFan, ISiddiqui, autumn, pass, path, saldana

That is based on MY list. Of that list, I hope to be able to move pass + saldana off of it entirely soon, and i would rank them as LOW chance of being wolves. Path is the next least likely, and then autumn in my mind, based on their roles and what they've demonstrated of their powers.

so the bottom of MY list looks like this:

7. autumn
8. path
9. pass/saldana

The other 5 people are in one big clump at the top.

Henry's list subtracts Path and Saldana from mine if we are to believe his powers (and i have no reason not to, and every reason to believe them, just saying). Of those, I think Path is the more relevant, as I am just waiting for corroboration before moving Saldana off of mine anyways

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 07:53 AM

*waves to isiddiqui* - do you want to try to use your power on someone? just to see what it does?

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 08:02 AM

Yeah, may not be a bad idea. Perhaps it'll be able to co-ordinate with someone else's powers in some fashion.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 08:07 AM

let me look over the list of people with roles and offer you some suggestions at some point today - have a feeling i'm about to get busy for a couple hours though

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 08:07 AM

oh hoops - maybe you should post whatever the reminder on the first page is about weekend play, since it's Friday morning

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 08:11 AM

let me look over the list of people with roles and offer you some suggestions at some point today - have a feeling i'm about to get busy for a couple hours though

Alright... I should be around at some point this afternoon. Well, at least right before coffee time ;).

hoopsguy

07-10-2009, 08:17 AM

oh hoops - maybe you should post whatever the reminder on the first page is about weekend play, since it's Friday morning

We are planning on "stopping the clock" at some point on Friday evening and resuming the clock early Monday morning. People will still be able to post in the thread, but no actions will be processed during that period of time.

I'll defer to Barkeep on what he would like for the stop time to be this evening since he is going to be around much later in the day than me. If people have strong thoughts on this feel free to post on it in the thread.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 08:49 AM

One last post about my ideas. I will probably be tied up much of the day so I don't know how much I will be online until later.

Without the drama here is the idea.

We vote henry AND one from his list. If we keep it close we will be able to get an idea about voting history.

If henry's/DT's list is good the wolves are desperate and it will probably be obvious who moves to get henry lynched (if he is telling he truth).

At the same time it may make it clearer if the other person from his list gets lynched to see just who tried to swing the vote that way (if henry is not telling the truth).

I was not proposing a straight up lynch of henry as we learn nothing from that.

It's just a way to cover our bases and I personally cannot see how this can be a bad thing.

Hell, I seem to be on a list of not trusted even though I had CR nailed early. I would have no problem being the second candidate against henry. Unfortunately that scenario is one of the lower psercentage moves as I know I am good and I think there is a good chance that henry is. I have never said "HENRY IS NOT GOOD", just proposed a what is scenario for us to be concerned with.

The worst thing that we can do is get so rigidly stuck in a rut to think that the list someone else has developed HAS to bo correct. I am not saying the list is NOT correct, just that we need to be open for other avenues on the off chance that we get hit with a surprise.

Last night a statement was made that even if henry was a traitor the list would be insisted upon being used. Can everyone else please tell me how this makes sense? It doesn't. If henry is good, hell yeah we use the list. If henry is bad we need to re-examine everything.

I AM NOT SAYING HENRY IS BAD. I AM JUST SAYING WHAT IF. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING PREPARED FOR WHAT IF. I have a very hard time comprehending that being PREPARED for what if is a BAD thing.

One last time.

If henry is good, we win. If henry is not good, we can be prepared and will have played to be prepared instead of wasting another day, or worse two.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 08:54 AM

Forgot to add this:

This is a game based on 24. I think we should be prepared for the unexpected.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:12 AM

@soothsayer - there's a line in 1887 for you. i presume you can see it - 8th "paragraph"

saldana

07-10-2009, 09:23 AM

interesting...seems to be no night kill?

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 09:29 AM

I'm curious what the vote count is. How many people ended up on Thomkal last night?

Poli

07-10-2009, 09:31 AM

We are planning on "stopping the clock"
!!

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:32 AM

interesting...seems to be no night kill?

they tried to kill me - silly wolves :lol:

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:32 AM

!!

lol - poli fail!

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 09:33 AM

they tried to kill me - silly wolves :lol:

So the night kill has been made?

hoopsguy

07-10-2009, 09:33 AM

!!

Realistically, we know we can't stop the clock but only hope to contain it.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 09:34 AM

I actually thought Danny was the night kill. I'm still catching up on last night, but I want to be sure about this if that's cool.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:41 AM

I actually thought Danny was the night kill. I'm still catching up on last night, but I want to be sure about this if that's cool.

oh that's right - so apparently they had 2 again through some mechanism.

i forgot about losing our buddy danny.

Autumn

07-10-2009, 09:43 AM

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 09:43 AM

I guess we see what Pass, ISidd, et. al have to say for themselves.

I'll have something in a bit. Just want to get caught up first.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 09:45 AM

Autumn

07-10-2009, 09:47 AM

oh that's right - so apparently they had 2 again through some mechanism.

i forgot about losing our buddy danny.

Ooh that's cold, sorry Danny.

So day 1 they made two kills, right? Day 2, one. Day 3 they made two kills again. Seems we can expect one today.

I'll await the results of this soothsayer test if you think it will give us an answer, DT.

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 09:50 AM

Did they make a second attempt on you DT?

Seems like they did. So the wolves have the ability to launch 2 kills at a time. So maybe the first night wasn't a villager kill like we thought, but a double wolf kill?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:53 AM

Did they make a second attempt on you DT? I think understanding the night kill schedule could be key here, especially if they can make multiple kills at a time.

I think EF has something of a point, Henry could be a cultist type character and buying the wolves time. With multiple kills they could winnow us down quick. I suppose he could be a cunning wolf too, as DT has pointed out, that's the one flaw in his trust list.

I tend to think the simpler explanation though is the better. EF figures he's got enough trust with DT by pushing CR early that he can muddy the waters safely.

Yes they made a second attempt on me. It failed of course, cuz I am Jack Bauer!!!

Henry could be a cultist or a cunning wolf. Those are the only 2 flaws with my "high trust" list.

FWIW - EagleFan has no trust with me. He appears on my list of uncleared people and that's it. Also my list of people with powers we can't verify - and by verify I mean something like NTN's where we can all see it in action and see it nab us a wolf or result in a positive for the village. Yes he listed CR on his PM to me as "questionable"...I admit that. But that's not really enough to put him onto my "medium trust" list. At best it puts him as "least likely in the larger group of uncleared to be a wolf"

I'm not a big fan of trust lists in general, so you know mine is going to be pretty exclusive and the criteria are going to be high to get on.

Barkeep49

07-10-2009, 09:54 AM

Brian is once again eligible to post, however, he asked me to inform all of you that his schedule limits his availability today.

Autumn

07-10-2009, 09:55 AM

DT, I think the problem with your list is it highlights the ones you are least suspicious of instead of hte inverse. If I could, let me rewrite it:

1. Thomkal, Jackal, Kingfc22, EagleFan, ISiddiqui
2. Autumn
3. Path
4. Pass/Saldana

Number one being the most suspicious down to the least suspicious and those not on the list being somewhat trusted at this point.

Obviously no one's going to give much weight to someone on the list, and I have to accept that. Jackal is top on my list though and I would vote him if not for EF pushing to throw out the list. It would be good to be sure about any lynches though so I'll wait to see if we get someone to make sure who to vote.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:56 AM

Ooh that's cold, sorry Danny.

So day 1 they made two kills, right? Day 2, one. Day 3 they made two kills again. Seems we can expect one today.

I'll await the results of this soothsayer test if you think it will give us an answer, DT.

It won't give us 100% an answer on EF Autumn. The soothsayer is not cleared right now. But it will link the soothsayer with 2 people that he will have used his abilities on. So that will mean that if we find out the soothsayer's allegience OR the allegience of one of the two ends up not being what he said, then we will be able to draw conclusions from that.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:57 AM

Autumn

07-10-2009, 09:57 AM

Yes they made a second attempt on me. It failed of course, cuz I am Jack Bauer!!!

Wait so there was another kill attempt? What time did it happen? Or are talking about the attempt they made on you at the same time as Danny? It sounded like you were saying you've been attacked twice.

Also, what happened to nfg22? I"m assuming one of hte good guys did something to him, but why, and what has bene the consequence?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:57 AM

Brian is once again eligible to post, however, he asked me to inform all of you that his schedule limits his availability today.

i'm sorry i interrogated you Brian. But it did let us know about you, and you were sitting in an interesting place on some of those vote counts so i thought it was a useful thing to know.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 09:58 AM

I'm almost caught up. Anyone have a vote count?

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 09:58 AM

Even when I correctly identify a wolf as asked I'm still first out of all these people? Sheesh Autumn.

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 09:59 AM

I realize there's no one else vouching for me at this point, but that's just curious to me.

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 09:59 AM

I'll be back in a few hours.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 09:59 AM

Wait so there was another kill attempt? What time did it happen? Or are talking about the attempt they made on you at the same time as Danny? It sounded like you were saying you've been attacked twice.

Also, what happened to nfg22? I"m assuming one of hte good guys did something to him, but why, and what has bene the consequence?

There was the kill on Danny and one attempt on me.

I don't know what happened to NFG. I hope none of the good guys did something to silence him - he's not a suspect so I'm not sure why they would.

If someone did though, please step forward. Then if he returns unharmed and all it will help to clear you. I know at least one person on my "NI" list has proclaimed a power that exactly matches with what has happened to NFG.

Poli

07-10-2009, 10:00 AM

Beep, beep, beep, beep...

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 10:00 AM

I think EF is making some decent points on henry's list, but the way he's arguing his case makes me very suspicious of him. A bit too forceful, IMO. Seems like there is something behind that.

Vote EagleFan

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 10:01 AM

EF pushing to throw out the list.

I am NOT PUSHING TO THROW OUT THE LIST. I am only saying WHAT IF henry is the traitor. Then we need to question the list. :banghead:

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:06 AM

I am NOT PUSHING TO THROW OUT THE LIST. I am only saying WHAT IF henry is the traitor. Then we need to question the list. :banghead:

if henry's a traitor then all we (still) need to worry about is a cunning wolf in the CoT. if henry is not a traitor then all we (still) need to worry about is a cunning wolf in the CoT. Henry being a traitor has absolutely no validity on the larger list - it would only impact the two people that his list removes from my larger list (saldana and path). And saldana I hope to have a way to clear sooner rather than later.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 10:11 AM

@soothsayer - there's a line in 1887 for you. i presume you can see it - 8th "paragraph"

Might as well make my reveal. I am some far programmer... just kidding.

I'm the soothsayer. I don't exactly want to reveal, but the (sorta) good news is that I can only use my ability twice this game, and I'll be using it a second time very shortly.

I'm coming out now because I'm not sure exactly which line DT is talking about in post 1887. I think the line he's looking at would verify that both EF and henry are good, rather than just EF. I didn't look through last night's stuff very carefully, since it was mostly a pissing match, but if we want, we can look for something earlier as well. My suggestion was to analyze whether or not henry's statement that no conspirators voted with him is correct.

And to explain the post I made a while ago, this is why I was on clap Day 2. I was pushing him to reveal his role, with some backing from DT, but clap didn't come out with it until the mods and DT were away, and when he did, I wasn't sure if it was anything I could analyze. I unvoted clap so he wouldn't get lynched before I could use my power, then sent DT a PM asking if I should still try to analyze him or what. I got a response in the thread that I thought was to me (though the timestamp was off, so I wasn't totally sure) that said 'no' so I voted him again.

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:16 AM

I say soothsay something that will tell us if EF is good or not. If we confirm Henry's list we'll just be back to guessing who to vote for. Nailing a wolf now would be good.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 10:17 AM

Might as well make my reveal. I am some far programmer... just kidding.

I'm the soothsayer. I don't exactly want to reveal, but the (sorta) good news is that I can only use my ability twice this game, and I'll be using it a second time very shortly.

I'm coming out now because I'm not sure exactly which line DT is talking about in post 1887. I think the line he's looking at would verify that both EF and henry are good, rather than just EF. I didn't look through last night's stuff very carefully, since it was mostly a pissing match, but if we want, we can look for something earlier as well. My suggestion was to analyze whether or not henry's statement that no conspirators voted with him is correct.

And to explain the post I made a while ago, this is why I was on clap Day 2. I was pushing him to reveal his role, with some backing from DT, but clap didn't come out with it until the mods and DT were away, and when he did, I wasn't sure if it was anything I could analyze. I unvoted clap so he wouldn't get lynched before I could use my power, then sent DT a PM asking if I should still try to analyze him or what. I got a response in the thread that I thought was to me (though the timestamp was off, so I wasn't totally sure) that said 'no' so I voted him again.

Do you know if your ability will highlight a traitor? If so that would pretty much help us solve this debate. If not, I don't see scanning henry helping a whole lot to be honest and think scanning another would be better. Since the whole crux of this debate is on the chance he is the traitor (I see no good reason that a regular wolf would make that play). I have nothing to hide and am okay with being scanned (granted that probably means that DT would say I am the cunning :eek: ).

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:17 AM

I am NOT PUSHING TO THROW OUT THE LIST. I am only saying WHAT IF henry is the traitor. Then we need to question the list. :banghead:

Well if your plan is to put Henry and a suspect in a runoff then let's do it. You and Henry?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:18 AM

*waves to Pass*

Mr. Caglia is indeed the soothsayer (so he says to me). You could pick either line Pass...the one I suggested or the one that Henry said in his reveal. You might check with the mods as to the structure of the sentence I suggested because the second part of it i believe was like "i think" and idk if that would mess up your result on the first part.

you could either use it to prove/disprove henry's statement, or you could use it on EF...it's up to you. I think both are equally as valuable frankly (unless someone else has a different opinion).

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:19 AM

Do you know if your ability will highlight a traitor? If so that would pretty much help us solve this debate. If not, I don't see scanning henry helping a whole lot to be honest and think scanning another would be better. Since the whole crux of this debate is on the chance he is the traitor (I see no good reason that a regular wolf would make that play). I have nothing to hide and am okay with being scanned (granted that probably means that DT would say I am the cunning :eek: ).

cunning couldn't hide from a soothsayer statement

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:19 AM

Even when I correctly identify a wolf as asked I'm still first out of all these people? Sheesh Autumn.

What do you mean you identified a wolf?

You're first just because I"ve had you as a suspect for a while, as did a bunch of people including Danny. The rest of the list aren't people that I've seen anyone targeting until now, seems unlikely all the wolves are UTR. There was more in the action last night that made me wonder about you as well.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:20 AM

ISiddiqui - i will try to dig thru my list of role pm's at lunchtime

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 10:23 AM

Well if your plan is to put Henry and a suspect in a runoff then let's do it. You and Henry?

As long as we learn something I am fine with that. My powers have been used so I can't do anything additional to help the village. Selfishly I would rather see another from the list since I know the esult if I am lynched but that goes without saying.

To come clean even further. I have one special win condition and it is to outlive someone. Unfortunately I don't know who that someone is and didn't want to start sending PM's to try to find out or I would look too suspicious. I still win with the village so for that reason I don't mind "taking one for the team" as it may be.

kingfc22

07-10-2009, 10:23 AM

There was the kill on Danny and one attempt on me.

I don't know what happened to NFG. I hope none of the good guys did something to silence him - he's not a suspect so I'm not sure why they would.

If someone did though, please step forward. Then if he returns unharmed and all it will help to clear you. I know at least one person on my "NI" list has proclaimed a power that exactly matches with what has happened to NFG.

Yep. It was me. I'm Larry Moss and have the ability to discipline a player for a certain period of time, halting all actions.

I used my power on nfg prior to henry's reveal and after CR's death as I had him high on my suspect list especially with his vote for Telle tied it with CR rather than keeping CR in the leaad.

My thinking is that if he was a wolf, he wouldn't be able to communicate via PM with the others which could have put them behind the eight ball if we made a quick run on Thomkal.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 10:25 AM

cunning couldn't hide from a soothsayer statement

Is this posted somewhere or just what you were told through PM by the soothsayer?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:29 AM

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:29 AM

Is this posted somewhere or just what you were told through PM by the soothsayer?

how could they? soothsayer tests the factual nature of statements. a lie by the cunning wolf is still a lie. the cunning ability just allows them to hide from the seer.

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 10:31 AM

ISiddiqui - i will try to dig thru my list of role pm's at lunchtime

Sounds good. I should be around most of this afternoon.

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:33 AM

Yep - that's who I was thinking of.

Nice to see you publicly use your powers, as it seems like (from the CR lynch) that the wolves powers they claim in their PM are not ones they can actually use. Cuz we didn't see any mention in CR's PM that he could do what he claimed to be able to do as Kim. Do others agree/disagree with this line of thinking?

I wouldn't assume that was universal though, some wolves might have powers, like King's, that they could use publicly for good or ill.

What did CR claim to be able to do? I agree that if it wasn't listed in his descrip he was probably just inventing it.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 10:33 AM

how could they? soothsayer tests the factual nature of statements. a lie by the cunning wolf is still a lie. the cunning ability just allows them to hide from the seer.

Yeah, I definitely didn't say anything about that. To me, it seems like that's something that if it's going to be outlined in anyone's role, it would be the cunning wolf's. EF, can you tell us what the cunning wolf's PM says about it? :P

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:38 AM

Yeah, I definitely didn't say anything about that. To me, it seems like that's something that if it's going to be outlined in anyone's role, it would be the cunning wolf's. EF, can you tell us what the cunning wolf's PM says about it? :P

LOL - OOOOH

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:39 AM

I wouldn't assume that was universal though, some wolves might have powers, like King's, that they could use publicly for good or ill.

What did CR claim to be able to do? I agree that if it wasn't listed in his descrip he was probably just inventing it.

very true. CR claimed to be able to "stop all PM's between wolves for a period of time"

path12

07-10-2009, 10:39 AM

Now I know a bunch of people I could have been PM'ing but now we can't.

Damn. :(

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:39 AM

LOL - OOOOH

I think "Oh, Snap!" is what you're looking for ;-)

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 10:40 AM

very true. CR claimed to be able to "stop all PM's between wolves for a period of time"

Wow, that sounds totally made up.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 10:40 AM

But, I guess that's easy to say in retrospect.

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:42 AM

very true. CR claimed to be able to "stop all PM's between wolves for a period of time"

Ah yes, one of those "can't be disproven" ones. It would have been helpful to have that power though ;-)

I'm not sold on King, myself. I'd have to go back and look but I didn't notice anyone worried about nfg at the time, and so it seems a rather random thing to do. A good way to buy favor maybe, but an odd choice when he could have consulted with Jack about such a useful power. Could very well be a way to use it up publicly without having to worry about being asked to use it on a wolf.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:43 AM

Wow, that sounds totally made up.

lol - well that's my unofficial summary of it. he had it all nice and written up with timeframes and everything

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:43 AM

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:44 AM

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:44 AM

lol - well that's my unofficial summary of it. he had it all nice and written up with timeframes and everything

He should have just given you a vague and confusing summary of it, like Clap ;-)

Autumn

07-10-2009, 10:45 AM

well i don't think him using it moves him into the CoT or anything (even if nfg comes back unharmed). It just moves him down the list for in what order we might target him.

Certainly, but that's just as useful to a wolf at this point.

Now I'm really going to stop commenting ;-)

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:45 AM

I really, really should be doing some work instead of chatting in here, so I'm going to go silent but keep the thread open (If I can resist commenting in it). I would just go ahead and put my vote on EagleFan now but might as well see what comes up. DT, you said you wanted to wait for henry for something anyway?

was thinking of waiting for a few hours before anything anyways. let's get the word from Pass and then go from there. No rush...not like we're going to end the game before the weekend

saldana

07-10-2009, 10:46 AM

So the night kill has been made?sounds like the night kill was attempted, but not made...DT, do you get to know anything about your attacker?

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 10:47 AM

how could they? soothsayer tests the factual nature of statements. a lie by the cunning wolf is still a lie. the cunning ability just allows them to hide from the seer.

I misunderstood this to be a seer type of role.

In that case I will gladly submit more statements to observation.

I am Tony.

I have an additional win condition to outlive someone but I don't know who that player's identity actually is.

I am not a wolf.

I am not a cunning wolf.

I had the ability to go underground to obtain a list of potential suspects.

I spent my time underground with Kim Bauer but now feel unclean when CR's name got attached to her. :) (okay, that one may not be true)

I have no idea what the cunning wolves PM says.

I have no idea what any of the wolves PM say.

I only know what Tony's (my) PM says and it is not a conspiracy PM.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 10:50 AM

was thinking of waiting for a few hours before anything anyways. let's get the word from Pass and then go from there. No rush...not like we're going to end the game before the weekend

No rush on me either? I was thinking I'd get a lot of opinions on this, but I don't see many coming. Maybe it's because I'm putting off my work and keep hopping over here every minute or so. Anyway, I'm thinking maybe I'll wait until after lunch to decide, unless people feel like it should be done sooner.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 10:55 AM

Oooohh, I have another one you can test.

The Mets Suck!!!!!

:D

path12

07-10-2009, 10:56 AM

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:57 AM

sounds like the night kill was attempted, but not made...DT, do you get to know anything about your attacker?

nope unfortunately not. i know at least one (claimed) villager who (claims) to have that ability though. So suck on that wolves - the next person you try to kill may find out who you are!!

ooooooh....LIVE IN FEAR!

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:58 AM

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 10:59 AM

I spent my time underground with Kim Bauer but now feel unclean when CR's name got attached to her. :) (okay, that one may not be true)

:lol:

path12

07-10-2009, 11:01 AM

No rush on me either? I was thinking I'd get a lot of opinions on this, but I don't see many coming. Maybe it's because I'm putting off my work and keep hopping over here every minute or so. Anyway, I'm thinking maybe I'll wait until after lunch to decide, unless people feel like it should be done sooner.

I think finding a comment of henry's to test is more useful than one for EagleFan to put that whole theory to bed but I'm not sure if that's the consensus or not. EF just made it pretty easy, though my only concern would be if he's not a "wolf" but a member of the conspiracy (I'm sure the GM's would be able to clarify if the term wolf=conspiracy for these purposes). I'll go back and try to find something testable from henry.

Thomkal

07-10-2009, 11:05 AM

Oooohh, I have another one you can test.

The Mets Suck!!!!!

:D

As a Cardinals fan, I can tell you that you are telling the truth there. :D

hoopsguy

07-10-2009, 11:07 AM

It is hard to find something that is agreed upon by Cubs and Cards fans, but I think we have one here. Absolutely truthful statement - soothsayer not required.

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 11:09 AM

:mad:

path12

07-10-2009, 11:12 AM

henry, you're a cagey bastard. ;)

Not much to go on by his statements, I've bolded below the one I think is most applicable.

Let me try to go through this systematically.

1. Danny - High Trust, turned in CR
3. TheJackal - Potential wolf, no vote
6. Passacaglia - Potential wolf, didn't vote for Telle
7. Autumn - Potential wolf, didn't vote for Telle
8. Schmidty - Potential wolf, didn't vote for Telle
10. PurdueBrad - Good vote for Telle
12. BrianD - Recovering from torture - presumed good based on DT interrogation
13. nfg22 - Disciplinary action - good voted for Telle
14. ISiddiqui - Potential wolf, didn't vote for Telle
15. DaddyTorgo - CTU Special Agent Jack Bauer - GOOD
16. ntndeacon- Good, voted for Telle
17. Saldana - Good, voted for Telle
19. Kingfc22 - Potential wolf, no vote but was voting for CR
20. Thomkal - Potential wolf, didn't vote for Telle
22. path12 - Good, voted for Telle
23. henry296 - GOOD
24. eaglefan - Potential wolf, no vote but his distrust of CR makes him good in my eyes).

We probably should add Jackal and Schmidty to list of potential wolves b/c the others who didn't vote either have good reasons or had originally votes for CR.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 11:16 AM

It is hard to find something that is agreed upon by Cubs and Cards fans, but I think we have one here. Absolutely truthful statement - soothsayer not required.

Too late, I already sent the PM :p (j/k)

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 11:18 AM

It is time to reveal.

I am Renee Walker an FBI agent. My power gives me the ability to learn about the voters the first time I vote to lynch a villager. In addition if I cast the last vote that causes the deadline to learn the name of a someone who voted with me. The information that I'm given is how many members of the conspiracy voted with me. In this case there were no members of the conspiracy who voted with me.

path, this one was the one I was thinking of.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 11:18 AM

Af of 1961 (correct me if I missed anything):

Thom 5 (31%) - henry (1711), PB (1713), king (1746), saldana (1758), ntn (1762)
henry 1 (6%) - EF (1783)
EF 2 (13%)- DT (1850), IS (1917)

Yet to vote:
TheJackal, Passacaglia, Autumn, Schmidty, BrianD, nfg22, Thomkal, path12

path12

07-10-2009, 11:19 AM

path, this one was the one I was thinking of.

That's a good one too because it gets me off the list. :)

path12

07-10-2009, 11:20 AM

I've never had a soothsayer role before. I don't think it would play to my strengths.

Now that I think about it, there's not much about WW that plays to my strengths.

hoopsguy

07-10-2009, 11:21 AM

I bet the Plutonium role would have been right in your wheelhouse, path.

Thomkal

07-10-2009, 11:22 AM

Checking in here-I'm not likely to be around much this afternoon, but wanted to state that I stand by what I said yesterday after the lynch-I voted for Jackal because he was another suspect on Danny's list, a list and theory I agreed with. There were already votes on his #1 suspect, nfg, so didn't want to create a runaway vote on him.

I also thought Danny was being played by the wolves when he said he got a PM saying Chief Rum was evil just as there was going to be enough votes to lynch Telle. Therefore I did not move to Chief Rum and was waiting to see if the person who gave him the information came forward so I could believe his claim more strongly. That info did not come out, so I stayed where I was. I should have moved to Telle from Jackal I guess, but that likely would have made me suspect anyway since Telle has been revealed as a government worker. It was just poor judgement on my part, not anything wolfy.

PurdueBrad

07-10-2009, 11:24 AM

The above is the one thing that makes me doubt my Thomkal vote. I thought Danny was being played as well by somebody trying to make a late push at saving somebody so I didn't move off of Telle. For now, I'll stay where I'm at but am open to some of our other options as well.

path12

07-10-2009, 11:31 AM

I bet the Plutonium role would have been right in your wheelhouse, path.

I woulda kicked ass with the Clock as well. Poli keeps missing the second beat.

Autumn

07-10-2009, 11:35 AM

I can't see voting for someone because they didn't move to Telle. Obviously no one should have moved to Telle. Reading it after the fact I didn't really understand the surge, and if it wasn't for Henry's reveal I'd be assuming it was done by a pack of wolves. I can sympathize with EF's doubts because it seems impossible to think there's not a wolf in there on a runaway on a random villager.

hoopsguy

07-10-2009, 11:50 AM

I woulda kicked ass with the Clock as well. Poli keeps missing the second beat.

There is also a heartbeat sound that is behind the tick/beep sound that has never been very well represented by the clock.

There have not been any silent clocks, no split-screens focusing in on the characters, no speeding up of the clock at any point, no sound of crashing glass ... bottom line, I think that the clock role has been butchered all game long.

path12

07-10-2009, 11:55 AM

DT, I think the problem with your list is it highlights the ones you are least suspicious of instead of hte inverse. If I could, let me rewrite it:

1. Thomkal, Jackal, Kingfc22, EagleFan, ISiddiqui
2. Autumn
3. Path
4. Pass/Saldana

I've been looking back at posts from this list. If you go back to yesterday and relook at the Thomkal/Danny interactions during the day it does not look nearly as damning as Danny thought it did in the moment (to me, anyway).

I'm also willing to give king a day or two to see how that whole nfg thing works out. I do not get a bad vibe from EagleFan.

My vote will most likely be from this group: Jackal, ISiddiqui and Autumn.

Going through back posts is so much easier with the low posters.

path12

07-10-2009, 11:56 AM

There is also a heartbeat sound that is behind the tick/beep sound that has never been very well represented by the clock.

There have not been any silent clocks, no split-screens focusing in on the characters, no speeding up of the clock at any point, no sound of crashing glass ... bottom line, I think that the clock role has been butchered all game long.

Don't you hate designing a role and seeing it go so horribly, horribly wrong?

Barkeep49

07-10-2009, 11:59 AM

We haven't talked about this much, but the clock role was my baby (plutonium was hoops') and so it is I who is suffering here path.

path12

07-10-2009, 12:01 PM

I don't really want to vote for path, he keeps being targeted early in games and not getting a chance to play, and he's definitely a damned useful villager. I'd rather give him a pass on day 1.

This was an incredibly insightful comment. I'm convinced Jackal is good now.

I kid.

path12

07-10-2009, 12:04 PM

We haven't talked about this much, but the clock role was my baby (plutonium was hoops') and so it is I who is suffering here path.

I'm sorry to hear that, BK. The anguish shows in your comment.

I think you're getting short shrift here BTW for your efforts. I want you to know that I see both you and hoops as a giant combined galaxy of GMness and appreciate your efforts.

Oh, how did the over/under of 3 on the PM box clearance turn out?

Barkeep49

07-10-2009, 12:10 PM

I had to empty my box twice yesterday. In other words, over in a landslide. Just like I predicted. Alas I couldn't get anyone to actually book the bet.

path12

07-10-2009, 12:23 PM

Add Schmidty to the list of my possible votes.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 12:32 PM

I misunderstood this to be a seer type of role.

In that case I will gladly submit more statements to observation.

I am Tony.

I have an additional win condition to outlive someone but I don't know who that player's identity actually is.

I am not a wolf.

I am not a cunning wolf.

I had the ability to go underground to obtain a list of potential suspects.

I spent my time underground with Kim Bauer but now feel unclean when CR's name got attached to her. :) (okay, that one may not be true)

I have no idea what the cunning wolves PM says.

I have no idea what any of the wolves PM say.

I only know what Tony's (my) PM says and it is not a conspiracy PM.

One thing that worries me about these statements, EF, is that you say wolf instead of conspiracy in a lot of them.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:35 PM

So basically: My last two games:

1) I pick up on PB as a potential wolf based on a move he makes then pick up on Lathum as a potential convert. Neither gets listened to. End results, PB wolf, Lathum convert.

2) I pick up on a play that I believe is being made by the cunning in the reveal game. Same result with no one listening. End result, dead on accurate.

Now I am concerned about a potential traitor play but again no one seems to want to entertain that thought. I hope for our sake that I am wrong. People wonder why I am frustrated?

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 12:44 PM

One thing that worries me about these statements, EF, is that you say wolf instead of conspiracy in a lot of them.

Part of that problem is that I don;t know what the cunning role is so how accurate is cunning conspirator. I'll make a few more with conspiracy in place.

I have no idea what the cunning role's PM says.

I have no idea what the conspiracy roles' PM's say.

I am not in the conspiracy.

Anything else that you would like?

The Penguins will not make the Stanley Cup finals next year.

Sidney Crosby is a wuss.

The Yankees suck!!!

"Big Ben" did not get that ball across the goal line.

Manny Ramirez is a cheating punk.

Corzine is an idiot who is out of touch with the real world.

PurdueBrad

07-10-2009, 12:55 PM

The Penguins will not make the Stanley Cup finals next year.

Sidney Crosby is a wuss.

"Big Ben" did not get that ball across the goal line.

What worries me with your statements here EF is that you are obviously delusional and simply trying to hurt me. :(

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:00 PM

What worries me with your statements here EF is that you are obviously delusional and simply trying to hurt me. :(

No hurt intended.

:devil:

Schmidty

07-10-2009, 01:02 PM

Ok. I've a lot of the past few pages, even though it looks it's a tag-along vote, I'm still going with Thomkal unless someone can give me a reason not to.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 01:05 PM

VOTE EAGLEFAN

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 01:07 PM

Add Schmidty to the list of my possible votes.

not unless he's the cunning.

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 01:07 PM

VOTE EAGLEFAN

did you get a reply?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 01:07 PM

or wait - were you testing henry?

DaddyTorgo

07-10-2009, 01:08 PM

*confusion reigns in my brain*

ISidiqqui - i didn't get a chance to look at PM's from earlier in the game - this has turned into the busy-friday from hell. i will look after work

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 01:08 PM

or wait - were you testing henry?

I went with EF instead, and got a reply.

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 01:11 PM

[quote=DaddyTorgo;2069792ISidiqqui - i didn't get a chance to look at PM's from earlier in the game - this has turned into the busy-friday from hell. i will look after work[/quote]

Can understand that entirely :D.

Hey, sometimes I gotta work too ;).

Poli

07-10-2009, 01:11 PM

bottom line, I think that the clock role has been butchered all game long.
!!:rant:

ISiddiqui

07-10-2009, 01:11 PM

dammit, quote box :mad:

Poli

07-10-2009, 01:14 PM

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/24/images/thumb/c/c9/24_split_clock_screenshot.jpg/250px-24_split_clock_screenshot.jpg

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 01:16 PM

What do you mean you identified a wolf?

You're first just because I"ve had you as a suspect for a while, as did a bunch of people including Danny. The rest of the list aren't people that I've seen anyone targeting until now, seems unlikely all the wolves are UTR. There was more in the action last night that made me wonder about you as well.

I just meant that while I was under pressure, I was finally asked to vote for who I thought was a wolf, ignoring any self-defense voting or whatever, and I voted for CR. Fairly early. My vote was on him most of the day, and I only switched off because no one was really taking a CR vote seriously until Danny's reveal. In the meantime CR and I had agreed to switch to Telle in the thread (kind of a bad idea for two wolves to communicate like that, wouldn't you say?) so as to save ourselves, and I agreed since I had some suspicion on Telle, though I think I even noted I thought it was likelier CR was a wolf. And look what happened - CR is a wolf.

Even Danny, who was probably the hardest after me said after the lynch that he thought I was probably telling the truth.

What do I have to do? I understand if we get near the end and there's 1-2 wolves left and I'm still uncleared (which I hope isn't the case), but when there's still around 4, I'm really the first person you're going to go after?

Still catching up, just responding to posts as I go.

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:17 PM

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/24/images/thumb/c/c9/24_split_clock_screenshot.jpg/250px-24_split_clock_screenshot.jpg

But the time is not moving... :)

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:18 PM

I went with EF instead, and got a reply.

Care to elaborate? I call BS.

I am not a wolf.

Poli

07-10-2009, 01:19 PM

Beep, beep, beep, beep...

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 01:19 PM

The Penguins will not make the Stanley Cup finals next year.

Sidney Crosby is a wuss.

These I agree with!

The Jackal

07-10-2009, 01:21 PM

So, Pass just did a one line vote after supposedly using his soothsayer ability?

EagleFan

07-10-2009, 01:21 PM

Put my theory to the test. It's all I ask and I have asked so little this game.

Passacaglia

07-10-2009, 01:23 PM

So, Pass just did a one line vote after supposedly using his soothsayer ability?

What do you want, a five paragraph essay?

kingfc22

07-10-2009, 01:23 PM

Ah yes, one of those "can't be disproven" ones. It would have been helpful to have that power though ;-)

I'm not sold on King, myself. I'd have to go back and look but I didn't notice anyone worried about nfg at the time, and so it seems a rather random thing to do. A good way to buy favor maybe, but an odd choice when he could have consulted with Jack about such a useful power. Could very well be a way to use it up publicly without having to worry about being asked to use it on a wolf.

You even voted him before I did on Day 3 and he was up to 5 votes including danny (good), PB (good via henry), jackal (put CR up by one with his vote, I presume good), and myself

Unvote Thomkal
Vote Autumn

Let's go back to early on. Autumn PM'd two government agents, nfg (who we know is good now with henry's intel) and myself, asking for our character names with DT mentioned in the PM as well.

Good play for a wolf as if they wound a character name that they liked they could have easily killed them off and took over that persona.

Also Autumn didn't vote for CR.