WW CXLIX SPAWN IV - GAME OVER (Post 3845)

[CrimsonFox]

LSG 2 - Danny (3650) JAG (3668)
Danny 3 - Chubby (3703) DV (3705) LSG
DV 2 Abe (3722) CF

[Chubby]

i'm not hung up on original or converted spawn since we don't know how many we started with, i have been worried about that all game

[JAG]

If Brit was not the 3rd starting spawn then it has to be lsg or darth, thigh Brit is an odd mutation choice

Again, only really makes sense in that he had a good excuse for being exhausted (remember they went after a security person first, another with a reason for being up at night) and that way they could fake research and prevent us from getting the scanner / engineering kit. I don't believe I would have made that choice as Spawn but I understand the logic if he was mutated.

[CrimsonFox]

The way things are going I"d swear there were 2 wolves still. I really hate still being in this.

[Chubby]

of course nobody has said whether they believe we had 2 vigilantes in the game (autumn and darth as he claims)

[Danny]

I think it's possible. Crimson outline that there had to be two repeated roles so if it was done randomly then sure its possible.

[JAG]

of course nobody has said whether they believe we had 2 vigilantes in the game (autumn and darth as he claims)

There are 12 villager roles in the game. Absolute Trust had 3, so 14 roles in total. There weren't more than 3 starting spawn so that's 17 roles if every villager had one, which means there would have to be more than 1 of something besides Absolute Trust.

The other possibility is DV was lying and trying to save Britrock by providing an alibi for Brit's wounded status yesterday. I can see that as a possibility. I'm just going with LSG because I think her voting history is a good bit more suspicious than DV.

But it's pretty much between he and LSG for me. I'm more worried about a possible Spawn LSG becoming Captain if I die than a Spawn DV as engineer running around, so I think LSG is the safer choice for lynch today as well.

[Danny]

I need a nap, so may be missing for a bit (or maybe checking from my phone if I cant fall asleep lol). I'll obviously switch if needed, but right now I am keeping my vote on the person I think is the likeliest spawn.

[Chubby]

There are 12 villager roles in the game. Absolute Trust had 3, so 14 roles in total. There weren't more than 3 starting spawn so that's 17 roles if every villager had one, which means there would have to be more than 1 of something besides Absolute Trust.

The other possibility is DV was lying and trying to save Britrock by providing an alibi for Brit's wounded status yesterday. I can see that as a possibility. I'm just going with LSG because I think her voting history is a good bit more suspicious than DV.

But it's pretty much between he and LSG for me. I'm more worried about a possible Spawn LSG becoming Captain if I die than a Spawn DV as engineer running around, so I think LSG is the safer choice for lynch today as well.

i'm more worried about a spawn danny becoming captain. if lsg were spawn, why wouldn't have she killed you last night and won the game?

[Danny]

i'm more worried about a spawn danny becoming captain. if lsg were spawn, why wouldn't have she killed you last night and won the game?

Cause I would still be alive? If she did that, we would vote her today and while she could duke it, she then allows us to mutiny her and loses. In that same argument, if I was spawn, why wouldnt I have killed Jag and LSG off the last few days?

[Danny]

Heck, if I was spawn, I probably would have killed Jag just to set LSG up.

[Danny]

Jag, you should probably order DV to fix sleeping quarters. it doesnt appear he submitted any action and I am pretty sure he is gone past deadline.

[Chubby]

Cause I would still be alive? If she did that, we would vote her today and while she could duke it, she then allows us to mutiny her and loses. In that same argument, if I was spawn, why wouldnt I have killed Jag and LSG off the last few days?

thats true, much better plan would be to lynch one during day phase then NK the other that night, right?

[Danny]

thats true, much better plan would be to lynch one during day phase then NK the other that night, right?

Of course, so right now if the vote does come down to LSG or Me and one of us is spawn then we need to pick the right one. Considering I am not worried about me, I comfortable in my vote for LSG. I could understand how that might give you pause considering the risk, but lynching me has the same risk.

[Chubby]

Of course, so right now if the vote does come down to LSG or Me and one of us is spawn then we need to pick the right one. Considering I am not worried about me, I comfortable in my vote for LSG. I could understand how that might give you pause considering the risk, but lynching me has the same risk.

not at all because i think LSG is far less likely to be a wolf compared to you or darth

[Danny]

Your entitled to think how you want, I might think your crazy though :p

[CrimsonFox]

Really Chubby I think you're showing more wolf behavior than anyone today. Mostly for the quickscan.

But at least look at the voting history. Your sudden leap onto Danny doesn't make sense. Just seems like a blind hunch because he thinks it might be LSG. Well I thought it might be LSG before he did and said as such.

If you are worried about Danny instantly winning the game if we kill LSG, then why aren't you worried about LSG for the same reasons.

And why ARE you so keen that Danny is guilty?

[CrimsonFox]

Especially when you keep saying that you think DV is more guilty.

[Danny]

It's a little frustrating that apparently people will think you're more likely to be a villager if you barely show up and do little to help as opposed to being active and finding wolves.

[JAG]

They can't all be wolves CF. :)

[JAG]

I think it's laughable someone could look at the reasons and evidence Danny provided for voting LSG since the start of the day and find them more wolfish than LSG who voted Danny for the reason of "self-preservation" about 7 hours before deadline...coincidentally after we discussed the Spawn captain FTW idea.

[CrimsonFox]

They can't all be wolves CF. :)

Yes I do think Chubby DV Abe and LSG are all wolves.
They just only get 1 kill a night. :)

[CrimsonFox]

And really DV jumping onto Danny had much less of a reason to do so and of course he probably isn't coming back. I'd like to ask that you all vote me out instead.

[Chubby]

Especially when you keep saying that you think DV is more guilty.

hey ive tried to vote darth and nobody wants to follow

[CrimsonFox]

There are 2 people there Chubby. Where are you getting this?

[Chubby]

There are 2 people there Chubby. Where are you getting this?

on darth? there wasn't earlier today when everyone went onto lsg. i'm pretty sure i've voted him before and gotten no support despite his long list of red marks

[CrimsonFox]

How about look at the vote count and read people's posts? Do we have to do everything for you?

LSG 2 - Danny (3650) JAG (3668)
Danny 3 - Chubby (3703) DV (3705) LSG
DV 2 Abe (3722) CF


So do me a favor, Chubby. Talk me through your reasons for thinking DV is guilty/or innocent and reasons that you think LSG is guilty and/or innocent.

[Chubby]

How about look at the vote count and read people's posts? Do we have to do everything for you?

LSG 2 - Danny (3650) JAG (3668)
Danny 3 - Chubby (3703) DV (3705) LSG
DV 2 Abe (3722) CF


So do me a favor, Chubby. Talk me through your reasons for thinking DV is guilty/or innocent and reasons that you think LSG is guilty and/or innocent.

I have, why don't you go back and look at the posts i've made stating why i think lsg is far less likely than darth or danny to be wolf. I mean I've probably stated what, like 5 times today, how i think if lsg were wolf that danny would already be dead (whether she was starting or converted). She would have been converted with the intention of becoming captain or had that scenario put out there from day 1 if she was original

both votes on DV are after I already moved so it's not like he was leading at the time, the rush was on lsg which i think is a waste

[CrimsonFox]

Well that's a possibility Chubby but not a fact. Neither LSG nor DV have been paying attention much And neither are good with lots of rules. I don't think it would have been on their mind really. It is interesting that JAG was never killed. But he was also likely to be protected. Saying Danny "Would be dead" if LSG were a wolf, well that's circumstantial. No hard facts.

And who cares when the votes when on? Danny even said he might change.

[CrimsonFox]

It really sounds like you're voting Danny because people didn't want to vote DV like you wanted them to. I'm okay with a vote for either at this point. But Danny's move to brit the last 2 days would not have happened if Danny were a wolf.

[Chubby]

Well that's a possibility Chubby but not a fact. Neither LSG nor DV have been paying attention much And neither are good with lots of rules. I don't think it would have been on their mind really. It is interesting that JAG was never killed. But he was also likely to be protected. Saying Danny "Would be dead" if LSG were a wolf, well that's circumstantial. No hard facts.

And who cares when the votes when on? Danny even said he might change.

did i ever say i wouldnt change? :popcorn:

[Chubby]

what facts? vote history? vote history is not ironclad, wolves vote for wolves too yaknow

[CrimsonFox]

And hunches are so ironclad. Please.

I can't wait around all day I have to catch a bux. If you're going to move then move.

by the way the same reasons you give for danny also hold for LSG. If LSG is guilty then everything you said holds for her too. LSG isn't dead and jag and danny aren't either. So if you kill danny and LSG kills Jag and she's a wolf. Game over too. So really if you are scared of that, you should be voting for no officers.

[CrimsonFox]

did i ever say i wouldnt change? :popcorn:

why are you messing with us?

[CrimsonFox]

okay i have to leave. I odn't know if I'll be back. JAG and Chubby, are you guys going to change to DV? I can change to LSG now if I need.

[CrimsonFox]

Cause I won't be back. I hate feeling like I'm the only one playing.

[Chubby]

why are you messing with us?

i'm not messing with anyone.

is the only way to elicit a response from someone is by asking them a direct question?

i never said hunches are ironclad but they have as much validity as anything outside of scans.

again, if lsg were wolf I believe jag would have been dead a longtime ago

[Chubby]

Cause I won't be back. I hate feeling like I'm the only one playing.

you're not but you don't want me playing either :(

unvote danny
vote darth

it's the most logical choice, and has been for like 3 frickin' days (which i've tried saying)

[Barkeep49]

Votes Needed to lynch: 2

LSG 2 - Danny (3650) JAG (3668)
Danny 2 - DV (3705) LSG (3730)
DV 3 - Abe (3722) CF (3740) Chubby (3788)

[Barkeep49]

CF takes his engineering know-how down to the Crew Quarters to repair some beds.

[CrimsonFox]

you're not but you don't want me playing either :(

unvote danny
vote darth

it's the most logical choice, and has been for like 3 frickin' days (which i've tried saying)

Yes. Although the fact that Shiggles was innocent was the one thing that made me less sure of him.

[Chubby]

Yes. Although the fact that Shiggles was innocent was the one thing that made me less sure of him.

which was probably done with the intention of disabling the brig and not to simply free shiggles

[Abe Sargent]

Do we want any training todday? I can make an engineer security, and if alive tomorrow, then a scientist.

[Abe Sargent]

Although CF just used his time, so I can;t make him it, and DV may die, so that wouldn't work

[JAG]

CF did an action so it could only be DV.

[Abe Sargent]

What happens if we have a tie?

[Barkeep49]

What happens if we have a tie?
I've been waiting all game to be able to not answer that question :)

[Danny]

I still think lsg is the more likely spawn, but no choice now

Unvote lsg
Vote darth

[Abe Sargent]

I'm so temped to unvote and go in with a three way tie in the hopes that they all get voted off and we likely win right now, but no.

[CrimsonFox]

Made it here. Borrowed a car :)

[CrimsonFox]

Sweet. 5 of us on.

[CrimsonFox]

I wondered about the whole tie thing. Yeah I agree BK In running games ties are so hard to handle.

[CrimsonFox]

sorry abe but i coulkdn't wait and didn't know if you'd be back.

[CrimsonFox]

I did think making me enlisted was a reasonable idea . Actually doesn't it just take an ABE action and NOT a CF action?

[Barkeep49]

I wondered about the whole tie thing. Yeah I agree BK In running games ties are so hard to handle.
I always have clear tie breaking mechanics in place. I'm just not a fan of revealing them to the players before the game.

[Barkeep49]

DV orders himself and DV to do some repairing in the Crew Quarters.

[CrimsonFox]

So do we want to go darth or switch to lsg? i knoiw chubby won't but throwing that out there. if we think either danny or lsg is spawn we probably should avoid either. but i really can't see danny over the other two

[JAG]

I did think making me enlisted was a reasonable idea . Actually doesn't it just take an ABE action and NOT a CF action?

No, you have to have an AP available.

[Barkeep49]

Time check?

[Barkeep49]

With little work to do it gives people plenty of time to talk and discuss who is and is not a Spawn. Nearly everyone’s name is thrown out during the course of the day as a potential Spawn, but the discussion centers around three people. In the end the discussion concludes with a plurality deciding that DV is the most likely Spawn. As you have so many times before you start to approach him when a voice calls out.

”STOP!” JAG says with all of his well earned command behind it. “That is not the direction we will go tonight. Instead we need to know about LSG.”

Once your Captain says it there is little further argument. LSG soon is no more than bits of body. A very SURVIVOR body.

Final Vote Count:
LSG 1 - JAG (3668)
Danny 2 - DV (3705) LSG (3730)
DV 4 - Abe (3722) CF (3740) Chubby (3788) Danny (3798)

Warehouse 1 Inaccessible
Warehouse 2 Inaccessible
Warehouse 3 Inaccessible

Officers’ Offices Damaged but Operational; 1 cycle to repair
Crew Quarters Damaged; 6 sleeping berths; 14 cycles to repair

Power Facility Fully Operational

Water Plant Fully Operational

Scientists’ Lab Fully Operational
Spawn Scanning CrimsonFox and JAG; no Spawn Detected
2 Engineer equivalent tools present


The Crew

Command Staff
Captain - JAG Exhausted
First Officer - Danny

Engineer
Crimson Exhausted
Darth Vilus


Scientists
Chubby Exhausted
Trainer - Abe Sargent Exhausted

Deceased
mauboy - Lynched Day 2 SURVIVOR
Danny- Lynched Day 3 SURVIVOR
Autumn Killed Night 3 SURVIVOR
dubb Killed Night 3 SPAWN
Simbo Klice Lynched Day 4 SCRYING SPAWN
Zinto Lynched Day 5 SPAWN QUEEN
saldana Killed Night 5 SURVIVOR
Chief Rum Killed Night 5 SURVIVOR
Shiggles Lynched Day 6 SURVIVOR
Julio Riddols Killed Night 6 SURVIVOR
hoopsguy Killed Night 6 SURVIVOR
britrock Lynched Day 7 SPAWN
Golden Eagle Killed Night 7 SURVIVOR
LoneStarGirl Lynched Day 8 SURVIVOR

Night 8 has begun. All players have the option of submitting a PM to mutiny against JAG

[Abe Sargent]

HMPF!!!

[JAG]

Bummer.

[Danny]

Wow, that sucks.

[GoldenEagle]

:popcorn:

[CrimsonFox]

awww Jag, that wasn't a bad move really. That kinda sucks.

[JAG]

As I said, I thought it was the safest lynch.

[JAG]

Unfortunately it was also wrong.

[CrimsonFox]

I think the fact that I really suspected her and wanted to vote her made her obviously a survivor. I've been wrong about everything. :(

[Danny]

Lol, you were wth me I zinto so that's something

[britrock88]

Now, this is far too quiet a night after the duke makes a move!

[Chubby]

Unfortunately it was also wrong.

Of course it was wrong. Let's not vote based on actions but for meta reasons (oh she's playing like she did that game she was a wolf). Just a bunch of brilliant decisions this game...

[Danny]

Of course it was wrong. Let's not vote based on actions but for meta reasons (oh she's playing like she did that game she was a wolf). Just a bunch of brilliant decisions this game...

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. If you are basing it on actions, I have done far more to help the village than LSG did. It sucks it turned out wrong, but that doesn't mean it was a bad play. We still have a little time to get it right as well.

[Danny]

And it wasn't for meta reasons. It was for gut read based on peoples typical play style and for her votes, which did not look good. There's nothing meta game about that.

[CrimsonFox]

It is very silly everyone tossing around the phrase "meta reasons". This whole game is meta. Almost everything you do or read in this game is "meta reasons". Trying to figure out who is lying. HOw do you do that if you don't try and tell who sounds different than they usually do?

Sheesh.

[CrimsonFox]

And I'm not just sightin you Chubby. Others have used the phrase this game and others and then turned around and used their own "eta" logic to say "I think this person is a wolf".

[CrimsonFox]

I think it was less about people making bad decisions and more about a LOT of people acting secretive or simply checking out this game and seeming guilty.

[Chubby]

And it wasn't for meta reasons. It was for gut read based on peoples typical play style and for her votes, which did not look good. There's nothing meta game about that.

if you're basing it on things outside the game you are playing, it's a meta reason.

hey, you know what doesn't look good:
disappearing the whole game
no getting votes in
ominous "you'll be sorry" posts
not doing any work
doing work which hurts the village when they weren't told to do
claiming a 2nd vigilante role
"attacking" someone who wasn't really the main focus of being a wolf til after the attack

do you want me to continue?

I mean, sure, "she played like she did as a wolf 6 months ago" is a much better reason and NOT meta :lol:

and people wonder why I didn't wait for discussion on the tools...

[Danny]

It is very silly everyone tossing around the phrase "meta reasons". This whole game is meta. Almost everything you do or read in this game is "meta reasons". Trying to figure out who is lying. HOw do you do that if you don't try and tell who sounds different than they usually do?

Sheesh.


While I used different words trying to say it wasn't meta, in principle we agree. That's how the game is played.

[Chubby]

And I'm not just sightin you Chubby. Others have used the phrase this game and others and then turned around and used their own "eta" logic to say "I think this person is a wolf".

i'm not using meta logic, i'm basing it off of stuff he's done in game.

[Danny]

if you're basing it on things outside the game you are playing, it's a meta reason.

hey, you know what doesn't look good:
disappearing the whole game
no getting votes in
ominous "you'll be sorry" posts
not doing any work
doing work which hurts the village when they weren't told to do
claiming a 2nd vigilante role
"attacking" someone who wasn't really the main focus of being a wolf til after the attack

do you want me to continue?

I mean, sure, "she played like she did as a wolf 6 months ago" is a much better reason and NOT meta :lol:

and people wonder why I didn't wait for discussion on the tools...

Did you even look at the voting analysis? LSG did not have good votes. In fact, even knowing now she is not a wolf, I would say her votes still look bad and are typical wolf play. It wasn't just gut feel, but even if it was, that is part of werewolf.

[CrimsonFox]

Lol, you were wth me I zinto so that's something

yeah for the same reason that zinto seemed suspicious ended up being the same reason that LSG seemed suspicious to me actually. But that's why I try and factor in the "okay this person is acting odd. Is it for mistakes or RL or something that isn't about being a wolf?"

OFten those things are very hard to disect if the person doesn't give you much but I guess you just have to look for instances where they can clear themselves and other instances where people damn themselves.

[CrimsonFox]

i'm not using meta logic, i'm basing it off of stuff he's done in game.


yup and I've done that before and have been absolutely wrong too. I'm not saying DV didn't look guilty. I'm saying multiple people did. I do really think as a whole the village is second guessing themselves a little too much and/or trying to work 2 moves ahead instead of just the move in front of them. And that's not just this game, that's been really all year.

[Chubby]

Did you even look at the voting analysis? LSG did not have good votes. In fact, even knowing now she is not a wolf, I would say her votes still look bad and are typical wolf play. It wasn't just gut feel, but even if it was, that is part of werewolf.

yes I did, and I made the right call now didn't I

[Chubby]

yup and I've done that before and have been absolutely wrong too. I'm not saying DV didn't look guilty. I'm saying multiple people did. I do really think as a whole the village is second guessing themselves a little too much and/or trying to work 2 moves ahead instead of just the move in front of them. And that's not just this game, that's been really all year.

yup, people want to look like a giant werewolf genius sometimes instead of just trying to win the game

[Danny]

yes I did, and I made the right call now didn't I

Yeah and you were basing it off gut as I certainly didn't see you post much of any evidence for her not being a spawn

[CrimsonFox]

yes I did, and I made the right call now didn't I


you did? you were on Danny pretty much all day and wouldn't move.
If you thought it was DV then you should have went there. YOu staying on Danny does not speak of being confident about that.

[Chubby]

you did? you were on Danny pretty much all day and wouldn't move.
If you thought it was DV then you should have went there. YOu staying on Danny does not speak of being confident about that.
which I did, ya know, like the last 3 days and nobody else would vote for her so I went to my 2nd option until it was late enough that I could switch back and not have a giant mass of people switch votes at the last second.

[Chubby]

Yeah and you were basing it off gut as I certainly didn't see you post much of any evidence for her not being a spawn

feel free to post your ironclad evidence that she is spawn knowing that she isn't spawn

[CrimsonFox]

Yeah and you were basing it off gut as I certainly didn't see you post much of any evidence for her not being a spawn

yeah that was my thing. I just wanted discussion about it. Which of the 2 seemed guilty and innocent. You demanded DV but I never did see you give any analysis aobut LSG except saying "I don't think it's LSG". That's not anything.

I heard your analysis on Danny was that he was alive and therefore must be a wolf. That is very very circumstantial unless you were just setting some kind of test or trap in thread.

[Chubby]

And you know what maybe it's a little guilt about last game when I voted darth and we lost because of it.

this is exactly what we should be basing our votes on...

[CrimsonFox]

which I did, ya know, like the last 3 days and nobody else would vote for her so I went to my 2nd option until it was late enough that I could switch back and not have a giant mass of people switch votes at the last second.


well at least you were thinking about it. The vibe you were giving off today told me you absolutely stubbornly not moving off of Danny. I kept telling you and even showing you that I would move and make it DV which I did. KNowing Danny had said that he was voting LSG "for now" made me think that yes there would be some good discussion about the two of them late in the day. But there really was not. And the fact that both of them were on Danny was just weird. LSG saying "voting for self preservation" was just so screaming wolf actually. It's a bit late to give reasons like that. Because you should be voting for who you think is a wolf and build your case. If she'd have gone DV, that would have made it easier I think.

[CrimsonFox]

And actually once you moved to DV and I was there, then Danny went to make sure no funny business. If you'd have done that to begin with there would have been no big mystery or problem. Granted Jag still might have done what he did.

Actually I blame myself. I should never have brought up LSG. But she really pinged me and I tried seeing if others were feeling the same thing. I should have just did what I did the day before and said nothing and just followed the pack and let you win the game cause I have been blowing it.

[CrimsonFox]

and heck you could have yelled at us for being stupid about voting LSG and tell us why and repoint to the DV crap the day before and all the other things. Everyone has such ADD here we flit from idea to idea and leave other things behind. That and the whole working too far ahead.

[Chubby]

Somebody needs to bust out the "dv fixed beds he MUST be good" logic that I'm sure is coming based on the awesome villagve play this game...

[Barkeep49]

The night activity is minimal. When you wake in the morning you find JAG dead and your new captain ready to assume command.

“There will be some changes around here with me in-charge,” Danny announces. “Starting with the fact that we’re going to turn that Spawn Detector off. No need for that thing now that we’re safely off the planet.”

Off it goes. And day by day the bodies pile up until the only one that is left is your new Captain, the Unaware Spawn.

GAME OVER. SPAWN WIN!

Thanks everyone for playing. I hope you enjoyed it. I know that at various points both sides felt like they couldn’t possibly win. I’m not sure if that’s the sign of a good game or a bad one, but I hope it’s the sign of a good one as a little bit of fear and uncertainty seems to be part of the WW formula.

[JAG]

Good work Danny.

[Chief Rum]

So if a Spawn becomes captain, the Spawn win?

[Barkeep49]

Since there was no Vigilante left in the game it became impossible to kill the Captain (no First Officer to lead the mutiny).

[britrock88]

Woo! Way to finish it, Danny.

BTW, did the crew actually mutiny, or was that a successful NK?

[Barkeep49]

Woo! Way to finish it, Danny.

BTW, did the crew actually mutiny, or was that a successful NK?
Successful night kill. No one mutinied.

[Danny]

Great game barkeep! Well played everyone, I've been sweating this one!

And for some reason I was paranoid Abe was bodyguard lol.

[Chief Rum]

Danny, you were the only Spawn left?

[Danny]

And even though it doesn't seem like it, Brit was starting spawn and I was converted. I was actually upset at first cause I was having such a great villager game

[Danny]

Danny, you were the only Spawn left?

Yes

[Chief Rum]

So you were converted by Zinto and britrock that night I followed Zinto?

[Abe Sargent]

Great game barkeep! Well played everyone, I've been sweating this one!

And for some reason I was paranoid Abe was bodyguard lol.

I never had a role, but I wanted to play that close to the vest. BK can you let us know what roles people had who may not have been aware of them?

[Danny]

So you were converted by Zinto and britrock that night I followed Zinto?

I believe so yes, night 4

[Danny]

I never had a role, but I wanted to play that close to the vest. BK can you let us know what roles people had who may not have been aware of them?

I was having visions of batman lol, thought you were going to thwart me again

[Chief Rum]

I believe so yes, night 4

Yes, that was the night. Everyone fixated on Shiggles because of that no beds and exhausted thing.

Oh, yeah, BK, please explain what happened that night with Shiggles and the beds? That was extremely confusing.

[Danny]

I'm pretty sure it was because zinto used a bed and only got exhausted cause of spawn attack

[Barkeep49]

I never had a role, but I wanted to play that close to the vest. BK can you let us know what roles people had who may not have been aware of them?
You were Gut Feeling. Since you never were in the voting crosshair you never learned of your status.

[Barkeep49]

I'm pretty sure it was because zinto used a bed and only got exhausted cause of spawn attack
This is the correct explanation. Shiggles had even hit upon it, but by the time he did so it was too late as people were going to vote against him.

[hoopsguy]

Good job by Danny finishing that one off.

I was surprised to see JAG duke it to one of the officers yesterday. He had played a brilliant game, but the risk management calculus seemed off on that play.

The Spawn being able to do multiple kills for multiple nights was pretty challenging ... would they have been able to do that every night if they opted for that option?

[Danny]

Good job by Danny finishing that one off.

I was surprised to see JAG duke it to one of the officers yesterday. He had played a brilliant game, but the risk management calculus seemed off on that play.

The Spawn being able to do multiple kills for multiple nights was pretty challenging ... would they have been able to do that every night if they opted for that option?

Thanks!

Yes, each spawn got a separate action. It was largely a new wolf team, but when I learned of each nights actions after being converted I was quite surprised that they largely chose to stack their actions instead of splitting them. They could have even done three separate spawn attacks.

[Danny]

I made some mistakes as spawn, but the key decision that we made that gave us a chance to win was to not reform the queen and instead kill the two doctors.

[Danny]

I was not unaware spawn at that time, I became unaware last night.

[Danny]

Chubby could have made it easy on me if he just scanned me instead of Crimson

[Barkeep49]

Good job by Danny finishing that one off.

I was surprised to see JAG duke it to one of the officers yesterday. He had played a brilliant game, but the risk management calculus seemed off on that play.

The Spawn being able to do multiple kills for multiple nights was pretty challenging ... would they have been able to do that every night if they opted for that option?
The Spawn got very lucky with their attacks and very unlucky with their conversions (not one person was converted by exposure to the "elements" this game). The Survivors also didn't really do much for defense, which would have really changed the calculus.

[Danny]

If it were me, I would have started the game by doing three separate spawn attacks on people without phasers who were not likely to be taking an action that night. It was too risky to go after Dubb who had a phaser and was likely to be awake doing something.

[Danny]

Bk, weren't the odds pretty good attacking exhausted people though? What did you have to random in order for the kill to miss?

[Barkeep49]

Bk, weren't the odds pretty good attacking exhausted people though? What did you have to random in order for the kill to miss?
Well without anything else going on there is a 55% chance an attack will kill a person, a 20% chance an attack will wound them, and 25% chance of nothing. Exhaustion decreases the nothing chance and increases the kill chance.

[Autumn]

Wow, great win, Danny. I'm heading out right now but definitely want to talk more about this game. It was a great deal of fun.

[Autumn]

The Spawn got very lucky with their attacks and very unlucky with their conversions (not one person was converted by exposure to the "elements" this game). The Survivors also didn't really do much for defense, which would have really changed the calculus.

Do you mean by guarding people, BK? Or something else?

[Danny]

Well without anything else going on there is a 55% chance an attack will kill a person, a 20% chance an attack will wound them, and 25% chance of nothing. Exhaustion decreases the nothing chance and increases the kill chance.

Hmm, then definitely some good randoming there BK!

[Barkeep49]

Do you mean by guarding people, BK? Or something else?
Yes. The Security Staff all focused on spying, by and large, rather than defending which is different than previous games (which saw a mixture).

[JAG]

BK, what were the odds Britrock would go 7 days without evolving?

Fun game, thanks for running it. I don't think I've ever had a game where I've made so many mistakes, especially with the rules.

[saldana]

thanks for the game barkeep...spawn remains probably my favorite werewolf theme ever.

i think there was too much going on this time for the survivors...the conversions + all the repairs seemed like a lot, and forced us to stay on the planet for a long time...given that the spawn could all do individual things, and get random help from the planet (which you already said they didnt), i think it was an uphill climb for the villagers.

of course we didnt help ourselves by wasting 2 villagers instead of just lynching dubb.

[saldana]

dola, all the work that needed to get done pretty much eliminated the brig strategy..we couldnt afford to not have people working and there were so many repairs and conversions that there was no one left to convert to a warden to use it.

[Barkeep49]

BK, what were the odds Britrock would go 7 days without evolving?

Fun game, thanks for running it. I don't think I've ever had a game where I've made so many mistakes, especially with the rules.
Brit was never going to evolve. I did that for balance.

[Danny]

BK, what were the odds Britrock would go 7 days without evolving?

Fun game, thanks for running it. I don't think I've ever had a game where I've made so many mistakes, especially with the rules.

You were by far the biggest reason the survivors were able to take off and overall played a fantastic game.

[Barkeep49]

thanks for the game barkeep...spawn remains probably my favorite werewolf theme ever.

i think there was too much going on this time for the survivors...the conversions + all the repairs seemed like a lot, and forced us to stay on the planet for a long time...given that the spawn could all do individual things, and get random help from the planet (which you already said they didnt), i think it was an uphill climb for the villagers.

of course we didnt help ourselves by wasting 2 villagers instead of just lynching dubb.

dola, all the work that needed to get done pretty much eliminated the brig strategy..we couldnt afford to not have people working and there were so many repairs and conversions that there was no one left to convert to a warden to use it.

I agree that the Survivors had a challenge. Balance is always tricky with this game. Part of what threw the balance off was that the Survivors did a lot less night work than in previous games. After 3 games I expected the Survivors to do more work at night and it seemed like only CF and Hoops ever did that. I agree the brig strategy was less viable which is why I didn't make someone a Warden initially; it felt like that would be too much of a "wasted" role.

I think the Spawn had some real obstacles as well, however. First, the Spawn worked on the Overlord Night 1. If they hadn't there would have been increasing penalties for them, which would have ultimately forced them to do so at a later, and perhaps worse, time. Second there was the chance for multiple scans not only with the doctors but with the scientists. Brit faked a lot of work on it, but it was still completed and could have potentially been very bad news for the Spawn if 2 more people were being scanned every day. And unlike a doctor scan, you wouldn't have lost it if it found a Spawn AND it would have detected Unaware Spawn during the Night cycle. I will also say that Zinto's move of sending out people on the Away Team was brilliant and helped provide maneuvering room for them. Plus, yeah the Survivors should have killed the Spawn :). Despite all that, the Spawn came 1 vote (and 1 Duking) away from losing the game. It was really there for the taking for either side all the way to the end.

[Barkeep49]

You were by far the biggest reason the survivors were able to take off and overall played a fantastic game.
I agree. JAG I thought you were a great Captain. Autumn was also a great First Officer while he lived.

[Danny]

I agree. JAG I thought you were a great Captain. Autumn was also a great First Officer while he lived.

Except for voting me, yes he was :D

[britrock88]

And even though it doesn't seem like it, Brit was starting spawn and I was converted. I was actually upset at first cause I was having such a great villager game

Zinto (and I guess the rest of us starting Spawn) were wary of you re-joining the game, so we made sure that our first act would be to Spawn attack you.

That said, though, here's a question for the rulemaster -- I was under the impression that Zinto (as Spawn Queen) had to be a part of each Spawn attack, limiting us to 1 per night. Is that right? Or is it that the Spawn Queen's existence made it possible for each of us to launch Spawn attacks?

We also did a lot of stacking to improve our odds early on. And we were pretty risk-averse; we only dared face a phaser once (in Spawn attacking Dubb), because we wanted someone in Security on our side.

JAG, were you actually guarding the Water Plant the other night? Because once I was lynched, I realized that (in my understanding of the rules) no one was in a role that allowed them to guard the Water Plant. If Danny had attacked it and damaged it, all of the crew (except Danny) would have died of two days' dehydration in the morning. Thankfully, Danny found the other way to make it work.

[britrock88]

I agree. JAG I thought you were a great Captain. Autumn was also a great First Officer while he lived.

Agreed.

[Barkeep49]

That said, though, here's a question for the rulemaster -- I was under the impression that Zinto (as Spawn Queen) had to be a part of each Spawn attack, limiting us to 1 per night. Is that right? Or is it that the Spawn Queen's existence made it possible for each of us to launch Spawn attacks?

The Queen had to be a part of any Spawn attack. A regular attack could be done with or without the Queen. But if you wanted to make someone Spawn, the Queen had to be part of it.

[JAG]

JAG, were you actually guarding the Water Plant the other night? Because once I was lynched, I realized that (in my understanding of the rules) no one was in a role that allowed them to guard the Water Plant. If Danny had attacked it and damaged it, all of the crew (except Danny) would have died of two days' dehydration in the morning. Thankfully, Danny found the other way to make it work.

I figured the game was lost (for the second day in a row...the night before I expected the Danny-Abe Spawn team to kill LSG and I) when I saw the damage to the water plant and that we were all dehydrated. Blow up the plant at night and we lose, plus once it was revealed you were Spawn, I figured you and your teammate would have been all over that since you seemed to have a great grasp of things. The only thing I could think of was trying to 'repair' the plant even though it hadn't been broken yet. BK told me I didn't know what would happen if I tried to pre-emptively fix it. I wanted to coordinate some other people to help me but I didn't want to tip off the Spawn just in case they weren't planning that attack, plus I didn't even know if it would work.

[Shiggles]

This is the correct explanation. Shiggles had even hit upon it, but by the time he did so it was too late as people were going to vote against him.


Yeah! take THAT! :-P. The only other possible thing i could have thrown out was a different secret role, but really since i said spawn aware it would have just incriminated me. Figured you guys would have picked up on me trying to climb into bed with people, or seeing if anyone could "assist" with scans, or me assisting as medic. I just wanted to use the role which i never got any hits on lol.

And well played Danny/brit, i never suspected either one of you. call that guilt for killin ya the first time danny though >.<

Brit was entering the grey area though ill admit, and i realize that when so many days past, theres plenty of chances to get infected, so a scan on day 1/2/3 really shouldnt hold up. Although, isnt there usually evidence of an attack? or do some conversions just happen and no one is the wiser? that was the problem i was trying to combat with people suspecting me as spawn, because there was no night report of anything happening to me, i couldnt even see myself as a spawn candidate

[JAG]

What happened to the fence?

[Danny]

I think i played well i the frame of ww, but I did a poor job with the rules in regards to spawn specific stuff and completely overlooked the water thing. Oh well it was more dramatic killing jag ad becoming captain lol.

[Chubby]

Good work Danny.

Hey imagine that, if you had listened to me we would have won. Huh...

[Chubby]

If one of the two people that the spawn detector was looking at were spawn, would it have said which one specifically was spawn or just that 1 of the 2 were spawn?

[Danny]

Hey imagine that, if you had listened to me we would have won. Huh...

Only if you cherry picked the last day, I don't remember you contributing much toward finding the other spawn. I'm not trying to be mean, but I think it's very unfair to jag to cherry pick one wrong move when he did more to help the survivors then any other survivor.

[Danny]

And I'm not sayIng you didn't help, but jag really put in more effort than anyone

[Barkeep49]

If one of the two people that the spawn detector was looking at were spawn, would it have said which one specifically was spawn or just that 1 of the 2 were spawn?
It would have said specifically.

[Barkeep49]

What happened to the fence?
Built in failure. I wanted by that point in the game to give the Survivors a push to get off the planet. The Spawn knew it was coming from the start as well which I think actually helped the survivors overall strange as that seems.

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks again BK!!

[Abe Sargent]

I was actually a little surprised the spawn didn't take out the water plant after lift off, could they sabotage post-liftoff?

[Danny]

I think so that was me not thinking enough lol. I was so focused on ww stuff I overlooked winning from building stuff

[Barkeep49]

I was actually a little surprised the spawn didn't take out the water plant after lift off, could they sabotage post-liftoff?
Yes. I admit to being a tad surprised the survivors made no effort to have some back-up water as it was talked about early on the way the Spawn could dehydrate to victory.

[Abe Sargent]

I didn;t mention it in thread at all, because I was hoping they'd miss that, but if they destroyed the plant,I figured they won that next day due to dehydration.

[Abe Sargent]

Oh, who was the Slayer?

[Barkeep49]

Oh, who was the Slayer?
No Slayer. Figured with the Security HQ option not to mention all the Security Personnel available the Spawn were already restricted plenty.

[Barkeep49]

The starting roles were:
Duplicant
Avenger
Light Sleeper
Empathic
Vigilante
Absolute Trust
Unevolved Spawn
Absolute Trust
Gut Feeling
Spawn Queen
Light Sleeper
Psychic
Spawn Aware
Incorruptible
Incorruptible
Vigilante
Miracle Worker
Scrying Spawn
Absolute Trust
Miracle Worker

[Abe Sargent]

One more question, what happened on Night Zero, if anything?

[hoopsguy]

So what happend on the Autumn/Dubb double-night kill thing? Wondering how that played out, in terms of dice roll to get that outcome.

[Barkeep49]

So what happend on the Autumn/Dubb double-night kill thing? Wondering how that played out, in terms of dice roll to get that outcome.
Pretty straightforward actually. They both attacked each other, they both got rolls that enabled them to kill each other, so they both died. I explained earlier (as this is in the rules) how attacking works.

[Barkeep49]

One more question, what happened on Night Zero, if anything?
Nothing this game. Really just wanted to let people get comfortable in their roles.

[hoopsguy]

Pretty straightforward actually. They both attacked each other, they both got rolls that enabled them to kill each other, so they both died. I explained earlier (as this is in the rules) how attacking works.

OK, I didn't realize that the attacks would be processed simultaneously ... thought one of them would get priority over the other and have their attack succeed/fail accordingly.

[Barkeep49]

OK, I didn't realize that the attacks would be processed simultaneously ... thought one of them would get priority over the other and have their attack succeed/fail accordingly.
This case was easy since they were attacking each other. It would have been different if Player A attacks Player B and player C attacks Player A. I have an order of attacks written down from one of the earlier spawn games (spawn 2 I think) but honestly don't remember what it is and didn't have to dig it up this game.

[Barkeep49]

DOLA - dubb would have only wounded Autumn is Autumn had the phaser.

[saldana]

DOLA - dubb would have only wounded Autumn is Autumn had the phaser.

dubb would also have not done anything to autumn if we had just lynched him instead of screwing around and trading a 2 for 1.

other than the time that hoops admitted to being a wolf and then convinced everyone not to lynch him because he would tell us another wolf the next day, not lynching dubb might be the worst play i have ever been a part of.

[Chubby]

If one of the two people that the spawn detector was looking at were spawn, would it have said which one specifically was spawn or just that 1 of the 2 were spawn?

[britrock88]

BK said that it'd be specific.

[Zinto]

Thanks BK for running this game it was fun.

[Zinto]

Congrats Brit and Danny on pulling this out. I thought for sure Danny was going to attack the water supply and I thought he missed his chance to win the game after not doing so.

[Zinto]

So after you guys killed the doctors I figured we should have probably been trying to spread out our attacks and killing people more frequently since the CoT was growing every day without us doing much to try and muddle information.

[Danny]

Congrats Brit and Danny on pulling this out. I thought for sure Danny was going to attack the water supply and I thought he missed his chance to win the game after not doing so.

Just trying to add drama. I think both Brit and I missed that actually

[Danny]

Honestly though, that would have been a much lamer way to win

[Zinto]

We did get really lucky on rolls for kills late in the game and we got pretty lucky throughout I think. We got lucky that for some reason it was decided not to lynch Dubb but instead to lynch Danny who figured I was a spawn(I assumed by his posts) and who couldn't pass out guns because of it giving us a kill on Autumn by Dubb. Then we got lucky that after I was not on at all that the vote moved from me to Simbo. The reason we were lucky from A Simbo kill instead of me is that Danny was pushing hard for Brit to be scanned the next day. This allowed me to switch our conversion last minute from Sal to Danny since I knew he would have built up a lot of trust if Brit was found to be a wolf. Then I took the Doctors out of the equation for the day so that Brit would not be scanned. Oh yeah we also got lucky that I used a bed and Shiggles got exhausted because of it.

tl;dr:

We got lucky!

[Zinto]

Oh and I never want Danny to say: I am not a good wolf again. You played your few days of being a wolf great.

[Zinto]

Oh and we also got lucky that Dubb was not cured after being scanned. Really really lucky about that I think.

[Zinto]

And you played a really good villager game Danny which is another reason I converted you. I was feeling really bad about our chances at that point(if I was feeling better I would have EF gloated the last day I was alive) and I wanted you to lose ;)

[Chubby]

Only if you cherry picked the last day, I don't remember you contributing much toward finding the other spawn. I'm not trying to be mean, but I think it's very unfair to jag to cherry pick one wrong move when he did more to help the survivors then any other survivor.

he's the captain, he's supposed to do more

[Chubby]

Thanks again BK!!

+1

[Danny]

Oh and I never want Danny to say: I am not a good wolf again. You played your few days of being a wolf great.

I just say that so you guys don't kill me! I usually mean it more in regards to when people thing I am doing some crazy wolf move. I like to keep it simple when I am a wolf because I don't think I could pull off crazy stuff. Thankfully it's not really necessary

[britrock88]

Just trying to add drama. I think both Brit and I missed that actually

Yeah. Once I was toast, I left the thread, and only came back to read the end-of-day summary. Then I saw that the water plant was sitting there, everyone was dehydrated, there were no phasers, no security personnel. But, of course, it was too late to tell Danny by that point. So I told Barkeep so that I didn't accidentally spoil it somewhere else on the forum.

[britrock88]

I was REALLY glad that I read Spawn 1 when I was assigned to the Spawn. I was able to be helpful in the thread and in pointing out what the Spawn could do on that side of things in our conversations. Zinto's commandeering of the away team, though, was all him. Such a great move.

[britrock88]

"That side of things" being the ship and public work and whatnot.

[JAG]

We did get really lucky on rolls for kills late in the game and we got pretty lucky throughout I think. We got lucky that for some reason it was decided not to lynch Dubb but instead to lynch Danny who figured I was a spawn(I assumed by his posts) and who couldn't pass out guns because of it giving us a kill on Autumn by Dubb. Then we got lucky that after I was not on at all that the vote moved from me to Simbo. The reason we were lucky from A Simbo kill instead of me is that Danny was pushing hard for Brit to be scanned the next day. This allowed me to switch our conversion last minute from Sal to Danny since I knew he would have built up a lot of trust if Brit was found to be a wolf. Then I took the Doctors out of the equation for the day so that Brit would not be scanned. Oh yeah we also got lucky that I used a bed and Shiggles got exhausted because of it.

tl;dr:

We got lucky!

Well, but you guys had terrible luck that no one got mutated from environmental exposure. Even one conversion from that would've been a significant help for you. Plus you really made a great move to get almost all our key personnel sent out on that away mission and that wasn't lucky, that was you making a skillful play. Killed almost a full day for us, though luckily you were the queen so we at least didn't have to sweat spawnling attacks after that.

[Darth Vilus]

Didn't I say to execute Danny? Didn't I?

That's what you gys get for not listening to the Dark Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Simbo Klice]

And even though it doesn't seem like it, Brit was starting spawn and I was converted. I was actually upset at first cause I was having such a great villager game

You were having a great villager game, I'm glad they converted you. Spawn FTW!

[Simbo Klice]

I was REALLY glad that I read Spawn 1 when I was assigned to the Spawn. I was able to be helpful in the thread and in pointing out what the Spawn could do on that side of things in our conversations. Zinto's commandeering of the away team, though, was all him. Such a great move.

Loved that play by Zinto, but you played an excellent game while I was still around, brit. I'm glad we ended up pulling it out.

[Shiggles]

Thanks for the game BK! quite a first run if i do say so :-)

[britrock88]

Yeah, Shiggles, you had a great game, caught onto all 3 of the starting Spawn very early.

[Shiggles]

lol if it werent for the bed fiasco, id have been golden, if not killed the next night ;-)

[Autumn]

DOLA - dubb would have only wounded Autumn is Autumn had the phaser.

This was the real killer. I hate to complain, but I actually felt it was unfair that the phasers didn't get passed out, when to all appearances that was a real time order that had already occurred in thread. I would never have made that move if I realized I didn't have a phaser, but I don't think I was informed of that fact before I submitted my night action. I had a great time, and it was an awesome game, so I'm not going to nitpick, but that really seemed like a shocker.

[Autumn]

other than the time that hoops admitted to being a wolf and then convinced everyone not to lynch him because he would tell us another wolf the next day, not lynching dubb might be the worst play i have ever been a part of.

I think that's some pretty ridiculous hyperbole myself. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't make that play, as it turns out all the rules worked against me (dubb evolving in time to attack, the phasers being a post-lynch action). I should have kept it simple and kept my mouth quiet.

HOWEVER, it in fact did turn out to be very valuable to have that vote history. I believe it led us right to Simbo, and that may not have happened with a slam dunk runaway vote. And if we had voted better on that day we could have caught another Spawn. Danny's death could have happened any day. We lost me, but caught Simbo, and got rid of Dubb. Not a bad deal. Certainly not the worst day ever.

I think it would have helped to have me around to keep planning work, to be honest. But to also be honest I was spending way too much time every day doing that and it's probably best for me, my business and my bank account that I died.

[Autumn]

Except for voting me, yes he was :D

I have to say I was rather surprised you turned up good. I'd have to go back and see what it was, but I was very sure you were bad. I think you were just approaching the tasks from the exact opposite direction I thought was good, or something. I never vote you out early without some good reason, but I thought you were just reeking Spawn juices. So, sorry about that. Especially since it got me killed.

[Autumn]

BK, definitely one of the very best WW games I've been in. It was a great balance of task stuff and werewolf. I really appreciate you putting all this time in, I know it must have been huge to run. but it was definitely worth it to me.

[Simbo Klice]

I think that's some pretty ridiculous hyperbole myself. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't make that play, as it turns out all the rules worked against me (dubb evolving in time to attack, the phasers being a post-lynch action). I should have kept it simple and kept my mouth quiet.

HOWEVER, it in fact did turn out to be very valuable to have that vote history. I believe it led us right to Simbo, and that may not have happened with a slam dunk runaway vote. And if we had voted better on that day we could have caught another Spawn. Danny's death could have happened any day. We lost me, but caught Simbo, and got rid of Dubb. Not a bad deal. Certainly not the worst day ever.

I think it would have helped to have me around to keep planning work, to be honest. But to also be honest I was spending way too much time every day doing that and it's probably best for me, my business and my bank account that I died.

I think I actually had my vote on dubb, what got me was not doing work. After showing up late (and this time it was a for realz forgot about the game) I knew I would be on a lot of radars, so I thought my best course of action would be to make myself look as bad as possible and play up that hoops or one of the other engineers was trying to frame me. Only taking 3 slaves (Like I was told to :devil:) might have been the nail in the coffin, but even if I survived that day it was only a matter of time before people stopped buying my brand. If Crimson had called for me to repair anything but the medical facilities I probably would have faked it.

It's funny, LSG was the one who started the run on me because the power stations were attacked while I was in there. I was actually thinking of wounding myself that night to try and make it seem like I was the victim in the attack, but we came to the conclusion that that was a bit too far since we were attacking 3 seperate buildings that night. In retrospect, might've kept me around another day- but you guys were pretty much on to Zinto and myself by that point.

I was also worried when Britrock had convinced everyone to move to the mid-level research because the high level research was only 33-50% done, and it ended up getting completed that night because the captain ordered the other scientist to keep on it. I followed along sporadically after my death and I don't think that was even mentioned.

[britrock88]

I was very, very glad that there were no public details about that research. I'm not even sure how many APs each level of research took to complete, because I was faking a good portion of them. That said, I had to do some research to be updated on its progress, and I thought it was important to be able to communicate the progress to the crew in abstract terms in order to avoid suspicion. So there was an interesting balance I had to try to strike there.

I did like that it gave me an excuse to be up every night to cover for any Spawn role-induced exhaustion, though.

[JAG]

I was also worried when Britrock had convinced everyone to move to the mid-level research because the high level research was only 33-50% done, and it ended up getting completed that night because the captain ordered the other scientist to keep on it. I followed along sporadically after my death and I don't think that was even mentioned.

FWIW, I did think this was odd at the time, but I put it down as GE getting a 'good research roll'. It didn't seem like the type of thing Britrock could fake since there was presumably another scientist getting what I would have expected to be the same notification that he was.

[britrock88]

It helped that Schmidty was absent, and to a lesser degree that GE was quiet in the thread. I worked more often once he came aboard.

[Barkeep49]

I just re-read this for fun (and because I was bored) and now I'm sad I'll never get to run Spawn V cause I've thought of some fun stuff. I'm glad I got to be a part of FOFC community and the FOFC Werewolf sub-community for all the years I was.