MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • tessl
    All Star
    • Apr 2007
    • 5685

    #76
    Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

    Originally posted by CBoller1331
    Another thing fog of war opens up is that some organizations use/value different metrics/data when evaluating players than and end up valuing players much differently than others. While analytics is becoming/already popular league wide, there are some orgs that always seem to find a new edge - a new under the hood metric to seek out guys who are under valued
    Have you tried to scout in this game? What percentage of players in the draft were you able to fully scout?

    There is already far to much fog. Less fog please.

    Comment

    • MiracleMet718
      Pro
      • Apr 2016
      • 2074

      #77
      Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

      Originally posted by tessl
      That's already in the game. You get only 3 scouts and it takes them weeks to scout only one player. If you scout a position you are limited to only that one position as if a scouts sits in a ballpark only looking at third base. Fails to see Dansby Swanson at shortstop because his orders are to only scout third base. Vast majority of players in the draft you have a wide range "fog" as to what they will do because you had no time to scout them.

      If you are lucky you draft 3 or 4 players you scouted and want and the rest are a complete guess because you didn't have time to scout. People want to add things to the game that take it away from realism. Do you think MLB teams only bring in 3 or 4 players they have scouted out of the 60 new players from the draft and international signings? The draft needs to be improved not made worse.
      Have you played NHL by any chance? The way fog of war works for it is that your scouting department scouts a whole region or league. You hire like 8-10 scouts and then you pretty much have coverage everywhere. Once you get the basic info on all of the players (enough to draft then if you wanted to), you start focusing on players that you feel are intriguing and will fit your team mold and have your scout do more following of them so you get information about more than just their attributes. Will they fit your system, interest of joining the NHL, interest in playing for your team, etc. It also gives you insight into if they will likely be a draft gem or a draft bust (similar to what CFB has) so you can focus on getting some mid-to-late round picks that could end up outplaying their draft location.

      Then for pro scouts, as someone mentioned it’s trying to find fits for the trade deadline or other teams prospects that you can target in trades. Gives you a lot of the same information below.

      The goal of it is to simulate how in real life, some players/prospects are valued more by one team than they are by others. So it helps you find players that fit into what your team wants to do, both on pro teams and amateur draft picks.

      The assumption is that if they implement fog of war, the scouting system will also change since it will have to in order to allow for finding attributes/tendencies.

      Comment

      • MiracleMet718
        Pro
        • Apr 2016
        • 2074

        #78
        Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

        One more thing, Fog of War is always a completely optional setting. So if someone didn’t want to turn it on, they can leave it off me play like normal.

        Comment

        • tessl
          All Star
          • Apr 2007
          • 5685

          #79
          Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

          Originally posted by MiracleMet718
          Have you played NHL by any chance? The way fog of war works for it is that your scouting department scouts a whole region or league. You hire like 8-10 scouts and then you pretty much have coverage everywhere. Once you get the basic info on all of the players (enough to draft then if you wanted to), you start focusing on players that you feel are intriguing and will fit your team mold and have your scout do more following of them so you get information about more than just their attributes. Will they fit your system, interest of joining the NHL, interest in playing for your team, etc. It also gives you insight into if they will likely be a draft gem or a draft bust (similar to what CFB has) so you can focus on getting some mid-to-late round picks that could end up outplaying their draft location.

          Then for pro scouts, as someone mentioned it’s trying to find fits for the trade deadline or other teams prospects that you can target in trades. Gives you a lot of the same information below.

          The goal of it is to simulate how in real life, some players/prospects are valued more by one team than they are by others. So it helps you find players that fit into what your team wants to do, both on pro teams and amateur draft picks.

          The assumption is that if they implement fog of war, the scouting system will also change since it will have to in order to allow for finding attributes/tendencies.
          Will they fit your system, interest of joining the NHL, interest in playing for your team, etc.

          Fit my system? What's my system? It's not hockey. Interest in being an MLB player? What player doesn't want to be an MLB player? Interest in playing for my team? They are going to turn down big money to play in the frontier league?

          Baseball. No ice hockey.

          By the way I used to work traffic for all the Blues games. Just wanted to throw that in there since we are on the topic of hockey. Haven't been to a hockey game in decades but I did work traffic.

          Comment

          • CBoller1331
            It Appears I Blue Myself
            • Dec 2013
            • 3082

            #80
            Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

            Originally posted by tessl
            Have you tried to scout in this game? What percentage of players in the draft were you able to fully scout?

            There is already far to much fog. Less fog please.
            Yeah there is some "fog" when scouting and drafting players, but as soon as you sign them, the fog goes away and you know all of their ratings with 100% accuracy. That obviously isn't how things work in real life. You dont suddenly know exactly how good a player is and will be as soon as he's in your system (or another teams system for that matter)
            Chicago Cubs
            Michigan Wolverines

            Thanks Peyton. #18

            Comment

            • Cod
              MVP
              • May 2007
              • 2718

              #81
              Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

              Originally posted by tessl
              Fit my system? What's my system? It's not hockey. Interest in being an MLB player? What player doesn't want to be an MLB player? Interest in playing for my team? They are going to turn down big money to play in the frontier league?
              Every club has a system. Take the Rays for example. Their system allows them to draft pitchers in later rounds, find minor league gems, etc. because their development system is based around fantastic pitcher development. Some teams just have a "do everything the best we can" system, some focus on specific aspects of hitting (Red Sox new system), etc. My point is, every baseball club has a system (made up of many subsystems) and not every player will thrive in every location.

              Comment

              • delspf
                Rookie
                • Mar 2004
                • 454

                #82
                Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                For RTTS id like to see some more RPG elements once you make the majors. Outside of your agent calling you about a care package once in a while, there is jack ****.

                They could have had off field elements in here, interviews, trade speculation from your agent ( just more agent interaction ) etc
                Can't believe I been a member here this long

                Comment

                • Funkycorm
                  Cleveland Baseball Guru
                  • Nov 2016
                  • 3159

                  #83
                  Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                  Originally posted by tessl
                  That's already in the game. You get only 3 scouts and it takes them weeks to scout only one player. If you scout a position you are limited to only that one position as if a scouts sits in a ballpark only looking at third base. Fails to see Dansby Swanson at shortstop because his orders are to only scout third base. Vast majority of players in the draft you have a wide range "fog" as to what they will do because you had no time to scout them.

                  If you are lucky you draft 3 or 4 players you scouted and want and the rest are a complete guess because you didn't have time to scout. People want to add things to the game that take it away from realism. Do you think MLB teams only bring in 3 or 4 players they have scouted out of the 60 new players from the draft and international signings? The draft needs to be improved not made worse.
                  So for NHL, you can have up to 20 scouts scouting draft picks. That would be a solid addition here.

                  Honestly, scouting it too easy still in MLBTS. Scout for 2-3 weeks around each of your first 5 picks and you end up with 4-5 90+ potential players while the CPU has all busts. I love simming and building through the draft, but there is no challenge to it. I don't use the fog of war in NHL, but having scouting be harder would be a nice option. An option to turn on or off.
                  Funkycorm

                  Currently Playing:

                  MLB The Show 25 (PS5)
                  Red Dead Redemption 2 (PS4)
                  Pokemon Violet (Switch)


                  Twitch:

                  Twitch


                  Dynasties:

                  None at the moment

                  Comment

                  • Ghost Of The Year
                    Turn Left. Repeat.
                    • Mar 2014
                    • 6390

                    #84
                    Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                    When I hear them say fog of war in The Show, I assumed it would be a way of playing and not see the attribute ratings. No one IRL looks at a player and says ''My catcher has a drag bunt rating of 3 and my backup catcher has a drag bunt rating of 11." That's all I want with fog of war, not be able to see ratings, like my starting pitcher has a baserunning aggression of 2, my shortstop's clutch is 37, my leftfielder has arm strength of 50. Any other talk of kinds of fog of war doesn't interest me.
                    T-BONE.

                    Talking about things nobody cares.

                    Screw Discord. Make OS Great Again.

                    Comment

                    • tessl
                      All Star
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 5685

                      #85
                      Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                      Originally posted by Cod
                      Every club has a system. Take the Rays for example. Their system allows them to draft pitchers in later rounds, find minor league gems, etc. because their development system is based around fantastic pitcher development. Some teams just have a "do everything the best we can" system, some focus on specific aspects of hitting (Red Sox new system), etc. My point is, every baseball club has a system (made up of many subsystems) and not every player will thrive in every location.
                      Not every player will thrive in every location? That's hardly a revelation. In the current game not every player will thrive in every location. A quick story from Willie McGee - batting champion who played 18 years in MLB and was a coach for the Cardinals. When first arrived in St Louis an unnamed coach approached him and tried to tell him how to hit. Another coach Dave Rickets said "leave that boy alone - you don't know him". Willie said that was the best thing that ever happened to him. He spent years refining his swing and didn't need some coach with a big ego telling changing him.


                      I'd love a much deeper franchise but I've seen them waste an entire year in franchise but giving us things like player morale. It was done so poorly they had to remove it. I'd prefer expanded rosters, an expanded draft/international signings, better quality generated players and cleaned up progression/regression. That has been ignored for years in pursuit of things like the one you suggest.

                      Fix the basics then when all that is done pursue what you suggest with an option to turn it off because it likely will be done poorly like morale was.

                      Comment

                      • CBoller1331
                        It Appears I Blue Myself
                        • Dec 2013
                        • 3082

                        #86
                        Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                        *Sigh*....looks like we all have to talk in circles again
                        Chicago Cubs
                        Michigan Wolverines

                        Thanks Peyton. #18

                        Comment

                        • SmashMan
                          All Star
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 9743

                          #87
                          Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                          Originally posted by CBoller1331
                          *Sigh*....looks like we all have to talk in circles again
                          Is it really too much to ask that scouts are 100% accurate, every prospect has at least above average potential, and they all only progress, never regress? I think not.

                          Comment

                          • MiracleMet718
                            Pro
                            • Apr 2016
                            • 2074

                            #88
                            Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                            Originally posted by tessl
                            Will they fit your system, interest of joining the NHL, interest in playing for your team, etc.

                            Fit my system? What's my system? It's not hockey. Interest in being an MLB player? What player doesn't want to be an MLB player? Interest in playing for my team? They are going to turn down big money to play in the frontier league?

                            Baseball. No ice hockey.

                            By the way I used to work traffic for all the Blues games. Just wanted to throw that in there since we are on the topic of hockey. Haven't been to a hockey game in decades but I did work traffic.
                            I was just giving you examples of how it is managed in NHL. It doesn’t and shouldn’t be exactly the same, but it gives an idea of what it can be used for in The Show. MLB teams absolutely have systems, or at least ways that they run their franchise. The Mets operate completely differently than the Athletics do.

                            Even just looking at the Mets, they haven’t valued expensive pitching since David Stearns got there (he did the same in Milwaukee). Because of that, they’ve looked to fill their roster with some cheap veterans on 2 year deals that were willing to take those deals. The Yankees and Dodgers on the other hand have spent a boatload on pitching because they believe that gives them the best chance to win.

                            On the other side of the coin, you have a team like the A’s or the Pirates that refuse to spend and hope to both draft and trade for solid prospects. Fog of War can come into play by finding out how highly does a team rate a certain prospect so you can figure out what it takes to trade for that player and start your rebuild.

                            Also I get you don’t like the mode and that’s fine. But arguing that it’s stupid because you personally don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not a feature that would be worthwhile to add for a bunch of us that do enjoy it. And the best part is that it’s completely optional, so if they did add it, you could turn it off and not have the way you play your franchise impacted at all. And most importantly, I know how much you wish scouting would be upgraded from what it is now. They would have to update scouting so you can get more scouts and more accurate ratings on the specific players you scout, which would fix one of your big gripes.
                            Last edited by MiracleMet718; 03-29-2025, 02:09 AM.

                            Comment

                            • tessl
                              All Star
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 5685

                              #89
                              Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                              Originally posted by MiracleMet718
                              I was just giving you examples of how it is managed in NHL. It doesn’t and shouldn’t be exactly the same, but it gives an idea of what it can be used for in The Show. MLB teams absolutely have systems, or at least ways that they run their franchise. The Mets operate completely differently than the Athletics do.

                              Even just looking at the Mets, they haven’t valued expensive pitching since David Stearns got there (he did the same in Milwaukee). Because of that, they’ve looked to fill their roster with some cheap veterans on 2 year deals that were willing to take those deals. The Yankees and Dodgers on the other hand have spent a boatload on pitching because they believe that gives them the best chance to win.

                              On the other side of the coin, you have a team like the A’s or the Pirates that refuse to spend and hope to both draft and trade for solid prospects. Fog of War can come into play by finding out how highly does a team rate a certain prospect so you can figure out what it takes to trade for that player and start your rebuild.

                              Also I get you don’t like the mode and that’s fine. But arguing that it’s stupid because you personally don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not a feature that would be worthwhile to add for a bunch of us that do enjoy it. And the best part is that it’s completely optional, so if they did add it, you could turn it off and not have the way you play your franchise impacted at all. And most importantly, I know how much you wish scouting would be upgraded from what it is now. They would have to update scouting so you can get more scouts and more accurate ratings on the specific players you scout, which would fix one of your big gripes.
                              The amateur draft is 6-7 rounds and we get 3 scouts who take 3 weeks just to scout one player.

                              You don' think a more realistic roster size and draft/international signings is more important than whatever fog of war is? I still don't understand it. I can figure out how highly a franchise values a player and what it will take to acquire him now by trying to acquire him. Very simple.

                              For years the company has been adding this stuff and neglecting core elements of baseball. They reworked the draft but didn't make it better. They added morale and then removed it. Still no changes to roster size, progression models, the dice roll to determine age progression curve while they pursue these side shows. It's a valid issue.

                              Comment

                              • Ghost Of The Year
                                Turn Left. Repeat.
                                • Mar 2014
                                • 6390

                                #90
                                Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

                                Originally posted by tessl
                                The amateur draft is 6-7 rounds and we get 3 scouts who take 3 weeks just to scout one player.

                                You don' think a more realistic roster size and draft/international signings is more important than whatever fog of war is? I still don't understand it. I can figure out how highly a franchise values a player and what it will take to acquire him now by trying to acquire him. Very simple.

                                For years the company has been adding this stuff and neglecting core elements of baseball. They reworked the draft but didn't make it better. They added morale and then removed it. Still no changes to roster size, progression models, the dice roll to determine age progression curve while they pursue these side shows. It's a valid issue.
                                IMO a deeper draft and larger minor league organization roster size is far far more important but if fog of war simply means an option of choosing whether or not you want to be able to view player ratings or have them hidden from view so you don't accidentally see them, then fog of war would be much quicker to implement. You're looking at the difference of a few days of work in creating an option to view ratings or keep them hidden versus many months of work in creating a larger draft and increase in roster size. If they can do something in a few days versus a few months, you get the low hanging fruit out of the way first, have 1 of 2 new features already to go instead of waiting many many months before having either ready. Its all simple logistics and you try to avoid bottlenecks wherever possible..
                                Last edited by Ghost Of The Year; 03-29-2025, 09:24 AM.
                                T-BONE.

                                Talking about things nobody cares.

                                Screw Discord. Make OS Great Again.

                                Comment

                                Working...