Torre in Tampa

[SPTO]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Wow looks like Hank's got some moxie! Maybe the old ways of Yankee ownership might be returning.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Good news for teams not named the Yankees in the AL East. The correct moves with Torre were:

1. To say you wanted to go a new direction and not offer him a contract. It's business and that would have been fine.
2. Or to offer him a multiyear deal and say he's your guy going into the future.

They tried to cut the difference and get him for 2008 only which I think is going to be a bridge year for the franchise and likely had getting rid of him no matter what for 2009 in the back of their heads. So they offered him a pay cut and an insentive laden deal. It doesn't matter that it's still more than most managers make either, it's a pay cut.

Now one of the new Steinbrenners in charge is getting into a pissing match in the media. The correct move here after making the wrong call with the contract offer is to shut up and take the heat. I don't think it's necessarily going to cost them in any way but it shows that the new Yankee leadership just doesn't get "it" yet.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Wow, the Steinbrenner sons are really off to a great start

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3072881

I think they are trying to make the Yankees look as bad as possible.

They act like managers that make the playoffs every year and win 4 world series grow on trees. Is there any living manager who has done this besides Torre?

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Torre in Tampa

They act like managers that make the playoffs every year and win 4 world series grow on trees. Is there any living manager who has done this besides Torre?

Is there any living manager that has consistently had the talent he had over the last 12 years? From the hard-nosed guys of the 90s to the ridiculous star-level talent more recently he's had a loaded team.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Is there any living manager that has consistently had the talent he had over the last 12 years? From the hard-nosed guys of the 90s to the ridiculous star-level talent more recently he's had a loaded team.

Yeah there's plenty of teams that have been as talented as the Yankees. The 1996 and 1998 teams didn't even have a Hall of Fame starting pitcher and they were so dominant.

[SPTO]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Is there any living manager that has consistently had the talent he had over the last 12 years? From the hard-nosed guys of the 90s to the ridiculous star-level talent more recently he's had a loaded team.

Sparky Anderson had a VERY good team in Cincy with several HOF calibre (or just below) type players. He also had an amazing team in Detroit in '84 tho not nearly as talented.

[ehh]

Re: Torre in Tampa

"You can't take credit for success when you're going good, and then not take at least some of the blame when things change," Steinbrenner told the paper.

I agree completely with this. This has bugged more and more the way the media has reacted to this entire situation.

Joe has always been the first to get showered with love and all the credit in the world from the fans and media when the Yanks win but when things go south he never gets the blame.

It's a double-standard.

[NYJets]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Yeah there's plenty of teams that have been as talented as the Yankees. The 1996 and 1998 teams didn't even have a Hall of Fame starting pitcher and they were so dominant.

Plus they haven't had anywhere near the best pitching in the league since 2003. Offense isn't the only part of having talent.

Fact is, they Hank asked who Torre was before he got here, who were the Yankees? They were awful in the late 80's-early 90's. They had started to turn it around, but they still hadn't won anything except for a wildcard before he got here.

Sure, it wasn't all Torre, or even mostly Torre, but for Hank to act like the Yankees did him a huge favor to make him into a great manager is stupid. They hadn't done **** without him.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Yeah there's plenty of teams that have been as talented as the Yankees. The 1996 and 1998 teams didn't even have a Hall of Fame starting pitcher and they were so dominant.

Well in 1998 their rotation was Andy Pettitte, David Cone, David Wells, Orlando Hernandez, and Hideki Irabu. One through four that was a tremendous group. People might forget how great David Cone was, not a Hall of Famer but a guy who is definitely someone in the Hall of Very Good (yuck yuck yuck). Didn't he win a Cy at one point too? In 1996 their rotation wasn't as impressive but they did have the Rivera to Wetteland tandem going in their pen.

[NYJets]

Re: Torre in Tampa

I agree completely with this. This has bugged more and more the way the media has reacted to this entire situation.

Joe has always been the first to get showered with love and all the credit in the world from the fans and media when the Yanks win but when things go south he never gets the blame.

It's a double-standard.

He got killed in 2006. A lot of the media wanted him gone after they lost to the Tigers. He got blame after 2004 as well, and in 2003 for bringing in Jeff Weaver in the world series.

This year there is no logical way to blame the first round exit on Torre.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Sparky Anderson had a VERY good team in Cincy with several HOF calibre (or just below) type players. He also had an amazing team in Detroit in '84 tho not nearly as talented.

Forgot about him since he's not really on the radar anymore. He's got to be in his 70s.

[SPTO]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Sure, it wasn't all Torre, or even mostly Torre, but for Hank to act like the Yankees did him a huge favor to make him into a great manager is stupid. They hadn't done **** without him.

I think it's a little bit of both here. Yes Torre did do a lot and helped to bring the Yankees to the top however he didn't have nearly the cache that he has now when he was hired. In fact, in all his years of managing before he went to the Yankees he had made the postseason once or twice with the Braves in the early 80's. His last stint before the Yankee job was parts of 6 seasons with the Cardinals where the most wins he had was 87 wins and they never had a shot at the playoffs. The cards finished 2nd in '91 where they were 14 games behind and throughout Torre's run there they never were within 10 games of the division leader.

Buck Showalter IMO could've brought the Yankees to a world series and perhaps even win one. In fact, when Steinbrenner hired Torre he went back to Showalter and tried to entice him to come back and he'd shuffle Torre off to a consultant position.

So I do think that there was a bit of a favour there by George and the Yankees but Torre was also the right man for a team that had a very good mix of veterans and young guys that just about any competent manager could have success with. He just came into a real good opportunity.

[ehh]

Re: Torre in Tampa

He got killed in 2006. A lot of the media wanted him gone after they lost to the Tigers. He got blame after 2004 as well, and in 2003 for bringing in Jeff Weaver in the world series.

I wouldn't say he got killed in the media as a whole, certainly they were questioning him which was understandable. There were still plenty of supporters (or apologists if you want to use that word) after those series.

There was never a single time where the consensus, "The Yankees lost that series because of Torre." That's fine because it's correct, but there also shouldn't be "The Yankees made the playoffs in '07 because of Joe Torre," type of reactions.

[ckarlic]

Re: Torre in Tampa

I wouldn't say he got killed in the media as a whole, certainly they were questioning him which was understandable. There were still plenty of supporters (or apologists if you want to use that word) after those series.

There was never a single time where the consensus, "The Yankees lost that series because of Torre." That's fine because it's correct, but there also shouldn't be "The Yankees made the playoffs in '07 because of Joe Torre," type of reactions.

I agree..as much as I hate to see Joe go this might be exactly what the Yankees need to put them over the hump. The Yanks in my opinion are going to still be competitive next year and for a while. Even if we loose some people I think Cashman has done a great job at replenishing the farm system. Im kind of excited about the offseason.

BTW..sorry to hear about your 360.

[ehh]

Re: Torre in Tampa

Apparently Cashman is not even involved in the interviewing process for the new manager.