MLB Off-Topic

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I also wonder how many more years Bonds could've played at a high level if he wasn't ahem ***colluded*** out of the league after the 2007 season. That last year--although paltry when compared with his ahem ***2nd*** set of peak years--was borderline MVP level just considering the batting stats and not his total lack of defense at 42 years old.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I always think Gooden's 1985 season gets overlooked in these discussions. I think it has the 2nd highest WAR of any player since 1900, IIRC, coming in around 13-14 WAR or so.

8.9 WAR going by FanGraphs. 12.2 WAR by BR.

24-4 with a 1.53 ERA and 268 Ks is not a bad choice, lol.

EDIT: Seeing that 1.53 ERA, I had to look up 1968 Bob Gibson: 22-9 1.12 ERA 268 Ks 8.6 WAR

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Are you claiming that as best all time?

You can toss any of his 2001-2004 seasons into a hat and pick one. Really hard to pick a bad one. The 73 homers do jump off the page in 2001. According to wRC+, his 2002 season was actually the best of the lot.

Sure, I'll claim that best ever. Some things I want/need to see with my eyes though, and there are intangibles along the way that really matter in that case. I don't know what kinds of intangibles that Ruth and Williams had that would strengthen their cases.

In fact, I'm actually going to go the more traditional route and state the things I saw with my eyes they really made that season stand out, or enter the mental state of the individual. The first one I'll say is a number: that year he had more home runs (45) than strikeouts (41). 2002 was extremely close (46/47) as well. Anyway, at this time in 2004, Bonds had to face wishbone defensive shifts against every team, deal with lefty specialist relievers on the nightly, and of course had to maintain the patience of being walked 232 times, 120 of them being intentional! This was the year where people really started to say: "If lucky, he really only got one or two good pitches to hit a game," and that was essentially true. wRC+ doesn't track that kind of thing.

I'd argue his 2002 season was right next to his 2004 season, but because of those presences that had been introduced through reputation and adding two more years of age, I just think it's unquestionably a fantastic set of single seasons. I can easily rank them: '04, '02, '01, '03.

I also wonder how many more years Bonds could've played at a high level if he wasn't ahem ***colluded*** out of the league after the 2007 season. That last year--although paltry when compared with his ahem ***2nd*** set of peak years--was borderline MVP level just considering the batting stats and not his total lack of defense at 42 years old.

If you were around in 2008, you'd be hearing me say that left and right. Hell, you're still hearing me say it now. Barry Bonds would have had a better 2017 season playing left field for the Giants than Gorkys Hernandez, Mac Williamson, or Jarrett Parker, even at 52 years of age. I believe that to no end. His natural abilities combined with his current physicality and my homerism for the man make me delusional to believe something so silly as that.

I still can't believe Peter Magowan ran him out of town and no team ever picked him up. I also can't believe he's not in the Hall, but that's another story entirely.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Pedro 2000

1.74 ERA
5.31 H/9
0.74 WHIP

The American League slugged just .259 against him. Hitters also had a .167 batting average and .213 on-base percentage.

Only pitcher in history to have a season with more than twice the amount of strikeouts (284) as hits allowed (128).

Had a K/BB of 8.88, which broke the record of 8.64 held by 1999 Pedro.

In two consecutive starts he struck out 32 batters.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Pedro 2000

A vote for Pedro?

2000 Pedro: 18-6 1.74 ERA 284 K 9.4 WAR


What about 1999 Pedro? 23-4 2.07 ERA 313 K 11.6 WAR. Not bad either.

1997 Pedro (Expos version)...17-8 1.90 ERA 305 K 8.5 WAR

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

So far we have votes for...

1923 Babe Ruth
2004 Barry Bonds
1985 Doc Gooden
2000 Pedro Martinez

Still a bunch of contenders out there I'd have to think (1995 Maddux is a good one...as is 1997 Clemens and 1965 Sandy Koufax).

[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Baseball has changed so much overtime, it's probably best to just have one for each era. I mean Tim Keefe has arguably the greatest single season in history, but it was obviously a much different time.

68 starts, 68 complete games, 619 innings pitched.



Other candidates I'd say for more recent eras:
1972 Steve Carlton:
21-10, 30CG(8 shutouts), 346IP, 310K, 1.97ERA, 0.993WHIP

1968 Bob Gibson:
22-9, 28CG(13 shutouts), 304IP, 268K, 1.12ERA, 0.853WHIP

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Baseball has changed so much overtime, it's probably best to just have one for each era. I mean Tim Keefe has arguably the greatest single season in history, but it was obviously a much different time.

68 starts, 68 complete games, 619 innings pitched.



Other candidates I'd say for more recent eras:
1972 Steve Carlton:
21-10, 30CG(8 shutouts), 346IP, 310K, 1.97ERA, 0.993WHIP

1968 Bob Gibson:
22-9, 28CG(13 shutouts), 304IP, 268K, 1.12ERA, 0.853WHIP

If you had to pick one, would you go with Keefe, Carlton, or Gibson?

[dubcity]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

A-Rod 1996

[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

If you had to pick one, would you go with Keefe, Carlton, or Gibson?

Gibson probably.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Updating...

1923 Babe Ruth
2004 Barry Bonds
1985 Doc Gooden
2000 Pedro Martinez
1996 Alex Rodriguez
1968 Bob Gibson

Also, non Yankees fans especially, check out 1978 Ron Guidry...quite an effort.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Pedro 2000

1.74 ERA
5.31 H/9
0.74 WHIP

The American League slugged just .259 against him. Hitters also had a .167 batting average and .213 on-base percentage.

Only pitcher in history to have a season with more than twice the amount of strikeouts (284) as hits allowed (128).

Had a K/BB of 8.88, which broke the record of 8.64 held by 1999 Pedro.

In two consecutive starts he struck out 32 batters.

Great case...but I have to call the bolded point out. See 2001 Randy Johnson....181 hits vs 372 Ks.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I can't speak on older eras so 94 Maddux, 95 Maddux, 99 Pedro, 00 Pedro, 01 Bonds, 04 Bonds, take your pick of a Pujols "War on Baseball" year, as well as a Kershaw (the one where he got hurt in June, he was on his way to having the best pitching season ever basically) and Cabrera year or two and there's your list.

[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I want to say '68 Bob Gibson (after all he was so dominant they had to lower the mound) but there's something remarkable about Steve Carlton winning 27 of his team's 59 wins in '72. I know everyone poo poos the "win" stat for pitchers these days but that's pretty damn remarkable.

So going with '72 Lefty Carlton here.

[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I want to say '68 Bob Gibson (after all he was so dominant they had to lower the mound) but there's something remarkable about Steve Carlton winning 27 of his team's 59 wins in '72. I know everyone poo poos the "win" stat for pitchers these days but that's pretty damn remarkable.

So going with '72 Lefty Carlton here.

Going old school in the W/L column, Old Hoss Radbourn won 59 of his teams 84 games lol.



Another impressive one I saw is Denny McLain in 1968:
31-6, 1.96ERA, .905WHIP, 336IP, 280K


Unanimous Cy Young AND MVP winner. That 68 season was special. Cy Young winners winning MVP in both leagues.