2008 Chicago Cubs

[fugazi]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

i understand, and am also frustrated with Lee...

But we are scoring more than anyone in the NL, and pitching better than virtually everyone in baseball...

I suppose it is a "if it ain't broke" kind of thing. I would tinker with things, but Lou seems to be getting the job done.

Lee is still batting .290ish, and is on pace to provide a year very similar to the one he had last year...save for two very important differences. first, he is not getting on nearly as often, .035 less in fact, and i think this is because he is not walking much at all anymore (and his back shoulder is way out of place when he swings...but no one has pointed that out to him). second, his slugging is way down, too. Given his .OPS of .9+ last year, and current of .86, it seems that he is not hitting for extra bases as often, either. He only needs 5 hrs and 11 doubles to match last year's totals, however, and is striking out less than last year, as well.

It confuses me.

But i will point again to those Yankee teams at the beginning of their most recent run that didn't really have any mashers in their lineup. They just hit from 1-9. In many ways, a 2 run-double can lead to more than a 3-run homer because it keeps the inning alive with risp rather than empty bases. Some teams win with power, but lots of teams don't.
The Cubs are doing well and getting production from the whole lineup (for the most part). And, again, the bottom third of the lineup is really good. Few, if any, teams can bring 6-8 what the Cubs can.

DeRosa for team MVP.

[Jodaddy]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

Derrik Lee now is closing in on 4 HR's in 3 months.

He has ZERO in the month of August.

This guy is the black hole of our lineup. I really wish Lou had the nut to move him down in the order. He's just not a "3" hitter. He did however bat in a run by hitting into a double play.

Otherwise, thanks to Carlos for having to hit the game winning run in because his offense was doing nothing for him.

He needs to stop hitting down on the ball. He hits wayyyyy too many ground balls. It really shouldn't be that hard to fix. Something tells me that Lee hasn't even tried to change.

[fugazi]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

He needs to stop hitting down on the ball. He hits wayyyyy too many ground balls. It really shouldn't be that hard to fix. Something tells me that Lee hasn't even tried to change.

I'm tellin' ya, it's the back shoulder...drop the back shoulder, swing goes up...while this can provide high flies, it provides a lot of weak grounders, too...few liners. His ground outs are not the result of swinging down on the ball...if that were the case, we would see more liners and more sharply hit ground balls...what we see are the sort of top-spinning grounders that result from the bat swinging up the face of the ball. You can also tell by how his swing ends, where his body ends up...his hips and legs give it away. If he were swinging down, he would be in better position to run...look when he grounds out at his hips and shoulders, they are wide open, facing 2nd base (at least), and his left hand pulls off...this shows that he his not only swinging hard, but also that he is swinging with too much uppercut, as you can see that it jerks him up from shoulders to legs.

I wish he were swinging down. He would have several more homers and a lot less double play groundouts.

[Jodaddy]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

You may be right that he's not technically swinging down on the ball. However, if his shoulder is dropping (I haven't taken a close look), shouldn't we see a lot more fly balls? For a big guy, Lee hits an inordinate number of ground balls. And because of the high OPB of Theriot, Lee has hit into way too many double plays. This may not seem like a big deal right now, but when the playoffs start, and you're facing Webb or Santana, you can't have a slow giant hit so many ground balls with runners on. A good all around offense means nothing in the postseason. Look at what happened to Atlanta in 2003. The Cubs' starting pitching shut them down. Expect the same from the Cubs unless we start to see Lee, Ramirez, and Fukudome play like stars. To be honest, I can't wait to see Hoffpauir get called up in September, because if Fukudome continues to struggle, Hoffpauir might get a roster spot for the playoffs.

[fugazi]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

Good point, and i agree about hoffpauir. As for consistent offenses, lots of teams with consistent offenses win. I would like to see Lee hit with more power, but I would take my chances if the playoffs started tomorrow.

As for today...what a hack-job by Angel Hernandez in the top of the 8th. He should be embarrassed.

[Jodaddy]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

Haha, I saw that. Talk about squeezing the hell out of Marmol.

He also missed a couple obvious strike 3 calls when Harden was pitching. Speaking of Harden, he's a beast. 11 Ks, 0 walks.

[Happy29]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

An even 30 over now lets go for 40

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

So I headed into Pittsburgh for the game last night. Had great seats 23 rows behind home plate( $27, lol ) and just had a blast again. Man, I love PNC( Wrigley East ) there was about 9,000 people there last night and I would say about 35-40% were Cubs fans.

A fun game to see, as they scored early and often against the AAA Pirates. It was like watching batting practice. I know he has 16 years in the Major, but sitting behind Jimmy ballgame, and watching that swing is still as awesome as ever. I really like what I saw out Fuku also. You could tell he was hitting the ball where it was at, pulling, opp field, just a nice game overall.

I swear in the like the 4th inning, I thought my man Lilly blasted one over the RF fence, only to watch it die about 20 feet from the wall. The shot ARam hit, took about 3.5 seconds to clear the LF wall, and when he hit it, it sounded like a gunshot went off......hmmm, maybe 2k did get it right.


It really is a shame that PNC has no one there to support it, everytime we go, it is just an awesome experience. Here is one for all of you "Sweet Lou" fans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KMuC...eature=related, this has become my new favorite song.....

[ZM Punk]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

I must say I just can't defend Lee anymore. The guy just isn't hitting for any power and grounding into a ****load of double plays. But I was the one of the few guys around here that supported the Jim Edmonds move. So I guess they cancel each other out.


Nice to see the Cubs back to having the best record in baseball. And have any of you happened to see the run differential? The Cubs are +184 which is 70 runs more than the second place Red Sox and White Sox who are +111.

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

I must say I just can't defend Lee anymore. The guy just isn't hitting for any power and grounding into a ****load of double plays. But I was the one of the few guys around here that supported the Jim Edmonds move. So I guess they cancel each other out.


Nice to see the Cubs back to having the best record in baseball. And have any of you happened to see the run differential? The Cubs are +184 which is 70 runs more than the second place Red Sox and White Sox who are +111.

They were talking about this on XM on the way home from Pittsburgh last night. I think they hit it right on the head when they pointed out, that the run differential is so impressive, because of both the hitting and the pitching being so consistent.

Now that seem like an obvious answer, but I think it just goes to prove what an absolute well rounded team we have. We have three guys that are going to win 15 , 2 guys with over 20 saves, and with Chad and Jeff now in the mix, I wouldn't trade our whole package for anyone else's in the league.

I know Lee is having a down year, but the guy just screams clubhouse leader. He is never negative, his teamates love him, he still plays a solid 1st base.............and all I know is that there is quite a few teams that would love to have a DLee at first base even with the digression in production. I am just not on board with "bring Micah up from AAA" train. Seriously, thats the the idea that people have come up( I am glad we are not the GM's then )


Everyteam needs a guy like DLee, and I think a lot of us would be sorry if we lost DLee for the year due to an injury. Man, we are 31 games over .500, and I don't need a person to tell me that would have a better record, if DLee wasn't on this team, and Micah was. This is a total assumption by my part, but I bet if we took a poll of the entire Cubs team, and asked them who the leader of this group is, I am sure an extremely large % would put down DLee ( just a guess )

BTW Zitomulder, this wasn't a rant at you brother...lol, I am just tired of hearing crap talked about Mr.Lee.

[ZM Punk]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

They were talking about this on XM on the way home from Pittsburgh last night. I think they hit it right on the head when they pointed out, that the run differential is so impressive, because of both the hitting and the pitching being so consistent.

Now that seem like an obvious answer, but I think it just goes to prove what an absolute well rounded team we have. We have three guys that are going to win 15 , 2 guys with over 20 saves, and with Chad and Jeff now in the mix, I wouldn't trade our whole package for anyone else's in the league.

I know Lee is having a down year, but the guy just screams clubhouse leader. He is never negative, his teamates love him, he still plays a solid 1st base.............and all I know is that there is quite a few teams that would love to have a DLee at first base even with the digression in production. I am just not on board with "bring Micah up from AAA" train. Seriously, thats the the idea that people have come up( I am glad we are not the GM's then )


Everyteam needs a guy like DLee, and I think a lot of us would be sorry if we lost DLee for the year due to an injury. Man, we are 31 games over .500, and I don't need a person to tell me that would have a better record, if DLee wasn't on this team, and Micah was. This is a total assumption by my part, but I bet if we took a poll of the entire Cubs team, and asked them who the leader of this group is, I am sure an extremely large % would put down DLee ( just a guess )

BTW Zitomulder, this wasn't a rant at you brother...lol, I am just tired of hearing crap talked about Mr.Lee.

No worries. As you can see from my other posts that I have always defended Lee. And I definitely wouldn't want to trade him for a dude that hasn't had much more than a few cups of coffee in the big leagues. I just think its time to get him out of the 3 hole and maybe put him at about 5 or 6. The guy just isn't cutting it power wise and the double plays are just getting rediculous.


I am definitely not saying bench him, especially for an inexperienced player like Hoffhauier, who hasn't proved jack squat in the big leagues compared to DL. He just really needs to change his approach to the plate.

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

No worries. As you can see from my other posts that I have always defended Lee. And I definitely wouldn't want to trade him for a dude that hasn't had much more than a few cups of coffee in the big leagues. I just think its time to get him out of the 3 hole and maybe put him at about 5 or 6. The guy just isn't cutting it power wise and the double plays are just getting rediculous.


I am definitely not saying bench him, especially for an inexperienced player like Hoffhauier, who hasn't proved jack squat in the big leagues compared to DL. He just really needs to change his approach to the plate.

I can appreciate the thought of moving him, the only thing that scares me about that right now, is the disrupting off the lineup....the way Derosa has been on fire, maybe we put him in the 3rd hole and move DLee to the 5th hole.....just joking

[fugazi]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

Let it be known I don't condone sitting/replacing Lee either...but the criticisms about his power and his weak ground balls are valid. Plain and Simple.

Should I not criticize Zambrano for stinking it up for the past 3 weeks? Seriously...maybe there is something wrong. Remember the game earlier this year where he got shelled, and later admitted something was 'wrong'? His pitches looked like doo-doo tonight.

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

Let it be known I don't condone sitting/replacing Lee either...but the criticisms about his power and his weak ground balls are valid. Plain and Simple.

Should I not criticize Zambrano for stinking it up for the past 3 weeks? Seriously...maybe there is something wrong. Remember the game earlier this year where he got shelled, and later admitted something was 'wrong'? His pitches looked like doo-doo tonight.

No Fug, you have all the right in the world Brother to have criticism and concern, I am frustrated myself at both Lee and ARam....they both have had sub par seasons( although ARam has picked it up in the last 4-5 weeks). My only point truly was not to defend Lee, but to shoot down this crazy talk about us being a better ballclub with Micah in the lineup............

[Jodaddy]

Re: 2008 Chicago Cubs

No Fug, you have all the right in the world Brother to have criticism and concern, I am frustrated myself at both Lee and ARam....they both have had sub par seasons( although ARam has picked it up in the last 4-5 weeks). My only point truly was not to defend Lee, but to shoot down this crazy talk about us being a better ballclub with Micah in the lineup............

To be fair, I only advocated putting Hoffpauir in the lineup as a replacement for Fukudome IF his struggles continued. Fukudome might show some improvement, yet. However, Micah looked solid in his brief stint with the Cubs, and he has been on an absolute tear at AAA. I would not entertain replacing Lee with Hoffpauir.