The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

[jseward92]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

Yep Hairston is gone to the Nats for some minor league pitcher.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

With Hairston hitting .171, I can't imagine getting a very good prospect in return.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

Re: Starlin Castro.

One bad season? lol

It's a HORRENDOUS SEASON! A season that someone with his talent should NEVER have. He's hitting .234 with a gawd awful .269 OBP. He's regressed in walk rate and power. He's got a negative bWAR of -1.6, so he's one of the worst SS's in the NL this year by performance.

I am still a big fan of his, but he's done nothing but go backwards since making the bigs. 2012 was worse than 2011. And 2013 is worse than 2012. That's a problem. The gaffes on the bases and in the field continue as well.

He's still going to be good, but he's got a lot of work to do just to get back to where he was. It's wayyyy too early for a 23-y/o 2 time All Star to fall off a cliff like this. Here's to hoping he picks it up in the 2nd half.

[skywalkah]

Kid's too good of a talent to NOT question it.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

Kid's too good of a talent to NOT question it.

Right. If this was Ricky Gutierrez or Neifi Perez or Jeff Blauser, no biggie. But when you show you can rake at 20 years old, people expect big things, fair or not.

I mean, I had such expectations for him that I was a little bit shocked when Starlin's batting average dropped below .300 for the 1st time last year. It seemed like he had a magic bat, that everytime he got close to .300 in 2010-early 2012, he'd go on a run to prevent him from falling below .300.

Anyhow....

I thought this article here sums up some of Starlin's struggles nicely:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9457448/starlin-castro-struggling-fourth-season-chicago-cubs

It's not just *rabid, unreasonable* fans on his case. Both he and Sveum know things aren't clicking at all.

[JODYE]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

I'm sorry, but the kid is 23. He's not a machine.

Players aren't allowed to have bad seasons now? He lead the NL in hits in his first full season and was damn close to doing so again in his second. There wouldn't be such outcry if he hasn't already proved that he can be one of the best SS in baseball.

I'd attribute his struggles to a number of things, and obviously you can sit here and point out the obvious about his inability to consistently hit off speed pitches, or that he's missing on the fastball more than ever but what about the team being in flux, or the fact that our coaching staff blows or the fact that in our starting lineup there is exactly one player that is hitting over .270.

Why not hone in on Rizzo barely hitting .240 or Barney who is struggling to hit over his weight? Because there are expectations surrounding Castro that these others guys don't have and it's really unfair. He's human and the panic button needs to be put down.

[skywalkah]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

A machine? No one is asking this guy to be perfect. Again, I'd be willing to give him a pass if it were strictly offensive issues. The Cubs are doing absolutely nothing this year, so if you're going to struggle at the plate then this would be the year. It's everything else. Barney is coming off 70+ games without an error. He's also not expected to produce at the same level, offensively, as Starlin. Rizzo has his own struggles, sure, but I don't see anyone questioning whether or not he can stay focused on the game.

I get it, everyone sucks and the staff isn't anything to write home about. So what? This is when you perfect your game, work on your situational hitting and prove that you can contribute. Prove that you WANT to contribute. Some of this stuff is definitely within his control. Maybe he's letting some stuff carry over, but at this level you can't do that.

Then again, maybe Starlin's early success was a fluke. Maybe his expectations have been inflated and I just want to imagine he can contribute when it counts. Why is Castro exempt from criticism? I want to know that this dude is going to be ready when the pressure's on. And if he's wilting when there's none, then what am I supposed to think? And the last thing I want to hear is the "he's human" excuse. C'mon.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

I'm sorry, but the kid is 23. He's not a machine.

Players aren't allowed to have bad seasons now? He lead the NL in hits in his first full season and was damn close to doing so again in his second. There wouldn't be such outcry if he hasn't already proved that he can be one of the best SS in baseball.

I'd attribute his struggles to a number of things, and obviously you can sit here and point out the obvious about his inability to consistently hit off speed pitches, or that he's missing on the fastball more than ever but what about the team being in flux, or the fact that our coaching staff blows or the fact that in our starting lineup there is exactly one player that is hitting over .270.

Why not hone in on Rizzo barely hitting .240 or Barney who is struggling to hit over his weight? Because there are expectations surrounding Castro that these others guys don't have and it's really unfair. He's human and the panic button needs to be put down.

I agree with the bolded part. He's shown he's a good player, so it's alarming.

Also, with Rizzo, it's more than batting average. He's slugging quite well and has been pretty consistent. Barney has never been a good hitter so why rag on him for being him? Apples and oranges...

Life is not fair. Castro has earned those expectations and now he has to live with them. I also think it's perfectly ok to panic for a Cubs fan when the player you thought was the mainstay of the team is having this type of season. What if Sandberg or Grace had hit .230 all of a sudden? What if Sosa hits 15 HRs in the midst of his historic run? It's the striking contrast that has people alarmed.

You guys are missing the point. Aside from the fact that most 23-y/o players get better from what they were doing at 20, he's one of the worst players in the NL this season by WAR. If you read that article I linked, it's in there. I think he's actually the very worst given a certain threshhold of playing time. There's a huge difference between a down year and the worst performace in MLB.

We're not talking about an "off" season for a good player, we're talking about a horrendously terrible, face-meltingly and shocking below replacement level season.

There's a difference there. If he can't pick it up later on, that's a huge problem.

I, for one, think he can right the ship and maybe finish at .255-.260 and hopefully come back strong next season. However, I choose not to be a homer with regard to his performance.

[skywalkah]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

I have no doubt he can turn it around. I fully expect him to. Maybe Garza signing on long term is inspiration for all, including Starlin. It's just, during years like this, I'd like to see such a talent improving on every facet of the game. Or more than not. Not regressing. Gotta take advantage of the time when pressure isn't there, though I'm inclined to believe that a player of his caliber is always under the microscope. And that's not a bad thing.

[Jr.]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

It's not so much the production to me. It's the fact that he simply doesn't play hard. He loafs on the bases and in the infield. It's one thing if he just wasn't good and his mistakes were a talent thing, but they're not. They're an effort/focus thing.

It's an annoyance when he's hitting .320... it becomes a major issue when he's hitting .220

[skywalkah]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

Obviously we can agree that hope is not entirely lost, and no time like the present to start to makeup* ground.

*

Spoiler

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

Moving on from this Castro thing...what do you all think of a possible contract extension for Matt Garza? A leverage ploy? Or a real possibility?

I guess my thinking is they really can't afford to lock up a SP (who's been a little injury prone) for 4-5 years at the moment. Though, the counterpoint to that is, you'd spend almost as much on say, Edwin Jackson in FA while getting less in return. So, idk I guess.

[skywalkah]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

Yeah, I do think it's both a ploy to draw out some hesitant suitors and a risky move to consider. It's been known they've had discussions about extending him, but they are so far out I don't think it's worth it. Then again, who knows, maybe Samardjiza has convinced everyone they're closer than not. He has to know something they don't..

I do like Garza, certainly wouldn't mind it, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Someone will bite on him.

-

Gah, rain delay!

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Gah, Garza delay! They really stopped play for him to walk across field from the bullpen..

[Mo]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

I'm sorry, but the hustle card is just crap.

It's like the Jay Cutler doesnt smile on the sideline or Lovie Smith doesnt badmouth his team in the media, argument.

It's a meathead argument.

He's having a horrible season, but it's also good a thing. It's gonna force him to learn and make adjustments. Something he probably hasnt ever had to do in his career.

Now if he doesnt make those adjustment, then we're all screwed.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The Friendly Confines: The Official Chicago Cubs Thread

I'm sorry, but the hustle card is just crap.

It's like the Jay Cutler doesnt smile on the sideline or Lovie Smith doesnt badmouth his team in the media, argument.

It's a meathead argument.

He's having a horrible season, but it's also good a thing. It's gonna force him to learn and make adjustments. Something he probably hasnt ever had to do in his career.

Now if he doesnt make those adjustment, then we're all screwed.

Agreed. I think the whole "Castro dogging it again" thing is more confirmation bias at this point than anything. He's made a couple of high profile gaffes, and the one that got caught on ESPN with him looking the wrong way really was infamous for him.

I also think that Sveum in particular has been a little odd with him in the media. I'm not sure if he really knows if he wants to lambaste him or be gentle, and Dale often gets caught alternating between passive-aggressive and supportive. So, in a way, I don't think Starlin's getting a clear message from the coaches though he knows losing focus isn't optimal.

He's a young player also and I really do think he didn't get enough reps in the minors, and most young players have issues with the finer aspects anyway like professionalism (maintaining focus for 9 innings, every pitch) and on the bases too. My real concern is his hit tool, and has that regressed badly or not?

I don't think I would consider this poor season a good thing just so he can make adjustments for the sake of making adjustments, but if he can make said adjustments that will help him in the long run. I'd prefer him to just be so naturally gifted that he'd never need adjustments, but that's naive and that's not baseball.

We're Cubs fans, so in that respect we're screwed irregardless of how Starlin does