Blocks are ridiculous!

[OldHead]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

It doesn't require a physics engine much more complex than what we have to improve drastically on what exists. Even checking the level of athleticism combined with the current speed of the player would help in determining whether a slide-into-position block should occur and at what speeds. Poor shot blockers should play out foul animations more often. Unathletic block attempts should get less "assist" into position from behind. Or we can make these potent chase down assists only trigger with the Chasedown Badge. That's why it exists in the first place.

You make a great point that there is no downside to contesting a chase down with poor blockers, when in reality it can result in a foul more times than not for an and-1 if the player is too far behind or too small. That's not great for game balance.

One of Curry's highlight dunks last year was with Lowry trailing him and attempting to contest from behind. If it was 2K Lowry would have spiked it into the third row. The Lowry would proceed to do it to Iguodala the quarter after.

Very thoughtful response. I can't argue with you.

[MadManCometh]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

You know... I hear you, and do understand your frustration, but how would you go about stopping the block feast?

You also have to look at it from the other perspective. In the final seconds of game 7, you are controlling the point guard. You see an athletic big man on a transition fast break, but you being the point guard is much quicker. You chase down the athletic big man. You are in position to make a game saving block. The athletic big man has been perfect from the line all game long. The athletic big man is a 95% free throw shooter.

Your team is up by one point.

In a situation like this, you time your jump perfectly to make a game saving block by the speedy point guard, would you rather have 2k program your small point guard to foul the big man, who is perfect from the line the entire night, OR would you rather allow your point guard to make a game saving block in the last second of game 7.

Fouling the big man essentially means your team will lose.

Your ability to block with a point guard means your team wins.

Look, the scenario means nothing to me (game7). Just cause it's game 7 doesn't mean I want to throw away realism now. What if I make a perfect timing with the pg? Well what if the athletic big makes a perfect move and jump as well? Then what? U can't account and make up for things like someone who has size and more reach and vertical leap. If someone has you beat u are beat. Now if it's AD trailing the big, then there's a chance. But some speedy point guard ? No, he should be dunked on IMO. U can't just disregard someones size advantage, and leap advantage on you. Sometimes the opponent simply has the upper hand. That's realism. Taking away peoples advantage just because u want to win isn't sim.

[2_headedmonster]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

The defense can get love by better tuned realistic defense, such as better fast break defense, better pick and roll defense, and and better rotations. It shouldn't rely on unrealistic blocking and perimeter defense by poor shot blockers and defenders. And even if blocking was toned down so there's no actual block, it doesn't mean that the contest attempt wouldn't affect the shot.

Remember, address basketball problems with basketball solutions was the motto this year.

The more I play the more it seems that these elements seem to be hiding the issues in actual team defense this year. Actually some of it seem quite bad given how much emphasis was placed on defense in the promotional videos. If reducing the effectiveness of perimeter bumping and blocks by non shot blockers would undermine defense that badly, we have a serious problem with the defense fundamentally. The folks afraid of a patch nerfing the defense don't seem as concerned that the defense may not actual be one is authentic to NBA basketball without adjustments.

And I say this is someone who is too successful with chase down blocks offline. Poor shot blockers shouldn't be able to do so with much regularity. Yet they're doing it better than those who are known for it in real life. I regularly get chase downs blocks with guys who shouldn't be with any frequency. And I just ran down a point guard on a fast break with Bogut who was clearly not in position for a swat, because he suddenly rocket blocked from behind. I felt dirty.

My man Sundown with the hot fiya...

I'm actually working on something in regards to the same findings about defense.

[Sundown]

Blocks are ridiculous!

My man Sundown with the hot fiya...



I'm actually working on something in regards to the same findings about defense.

Is it just me? I feel like I have a problem with almost every fundamental team defensive concept as implemented in 2K16. At least as far as my teammates go. I was expecting a huge step up in overall team defense given what was said about ACE and the battles between Da Czar and OG, but I'm seeing:

Terrible transition defense.

Terrible pick and roll defense on the roll man.

Late help defense on ball penetration.

Terrible teammate awareness of passes cheesed into the paint.

Lack of some noticeable adjustments advertised as a feature of ACE.

That's like almost the entirely of team defense. All of these seem as bad or significantly worse than 2K15. What's going on here?

I know the CPU also suffers from most of these issues. I don't notice the transition defense issues the CPU has against me primarily because I expect to score on the fast break as GSW and I'm happy when I do, but it's probably there. Some of the rotation issues are hard to see because of the tough perimeter bumping. But I certainly notice the pick and roll defense as the ball handler (Curry) almost always gets doubled (legit), but the roll man gets a free lane for an open dunk unimpeded with no real rotation. Even if it's a slow and plodding Bogut receiving an extremely difficult pass over two defenders (not legit). This also happens on my end, when I have the defense set to Ice, but the center gets caught up in the perimeter and ends up behind his man way too often, again, for an unimpeded dunk.

It's also especially fun when the CPU cheeses the weakness of transition D AND poor paint pass defense to launch full court passes after scores for easy buckets to players broadcast cam can't even track fast enough for you to respond. It happens about once every couple of games, but when it does it's quite glaring what the issues are.

So what's going on? Is it just me? I'm pretty sure when Da Czar gave him a new challenge, OG didn't just turn up perimeter bumping, crank up user blocks, and call it a day. Heh.

[OldHead]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

So what's going on? Is it just me? I'm pretty sure when Da Czar gave him a new challenge, OG didn't just turn up perimeter bumping, crank up user blocks, and call it s day. Heh.

It definitely seems like it. I doubt it though. Lol. Either way, the results are the same.

And, what's with it being so hard to turn around the big guys in transition? Fact is, they shouldn't be stuck in a defensive face up posture in transition anyway? They should be back pedaling and ready to change direction...In 2K, they get back, stop and then face up. They're not ready to immediately push off and defend. Leaving the offense to get right behind them...That's before we even start discussing how the guards blow coverages in transition AND in the halfcourt. Makes no sense at all.

2K15, to be completely honest, has BETTER gameplay than this year's in several ways.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

I was definitely easier to score in 2k15....looks like we'll e headed back that way soon though...

[Sundown]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

It definitely seems like it. I doubt it though. Lol. Either way, the results are the same.

And, what's with it being so hard to turn around the big guys in transition? Fact is, they shouldn't be stuck in a defensive face up posture in transition anyway? They should be back pedaling and ready to change direction...In 2K, they get back, stop and then face up. They're not ready to immediately push off and defend. Leaving the offense to get right behind them...That's before we even start discussing how the guards blow coverages in transition AND in the halfcourt. Makes no sense at all.

2K15, to be completely honest, has BETTER gameplay than this year's in several ways.

To be fair, what 2K does better this year is like a 9/10 compared to 2K15. The actual feel and implementation of blocks is glorious. I LOVE how they feel and look, and the fact that ground bound shot blockers are effective in their own way and look authentic. Bogut has never looked so much like himself.

But the missteps, several of which seem to be in areas touted as seeing major improvement, are like a 3-4/10 given they were somewhat functional in past games.

[OldHead]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

To be fair, what 2K does better this year is like a 9/10 compared to 2K15. The actual feel and implementation of blocks is glorious. I LOVE how they feel and look, and the fact that ground bound shot blockers are effective in their own way and look authentic. Bogut has never looked so much like himself.

But the missteps, several of which seem to be in areas touted as seeing major improvement, are like a 3-4/10 given they were somewhat functional in past games.

I feel you, as long as we're talking about some of the GAMEPLAY elements...As far as the overall package?? I'm not so sure...Particulary, how long it takes to skip through the presentation cutscenes. I don't want to steer this post in the wrong direction though. I'll just say that I wouldn't call someone that prefers 2K15 to this game crazy.

[Sundown]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

I was definitely easier to score....looks like we'll e headed back that way soon though...

As someone who argues for more realistic perimeter defense and blocks (toned down appropriately), I actually want defense to be BETTER overall, at least from the good defensive teams.

I mean GSW was the best defensive team last season, and they did it not by bumping players on the perimeter. They were one of the teams that played positional defense with anticipation and switching that didn't rely heavily on physicality, grabbing, and contact at the three point line. They were a block leader, but it was through schemes and funneling shots towards their plodding ground bound center who has impeccable help defense intelligence and block timing-- and also because of their pace-- not because Curry was getting chasedown blocks.

[The 24th Letter]

Blocks are ridiculous!

As someone who argues for more realistic perimeter defense and blocks (toned down appropriately), I actually want defense to be BETTER overall, at least from the good defensive teams.

I mean GSW was the best defensive team last season, and they did it not by bumping players on the perimeter. They were one of the teams that played positional defense with anticipation and switching that didn't rely heavily on physicality, grabbing, and contact at the three point line. They were a block leader, but it was through schemes and funneling shots towards their plodding ground bound center who has impeccable help defense intelligence and block timing-- and also because of their pace-- not because Curry was getting chasedown blocks.

Hey, I'd love for my video game to 100% reflect to efficiency of the Spurs offense too...would be amazing if the AI could make branching decisions to optimize motion and spacing. Would be incredible.


but yeah, like I said.... things should a lot easier on the offensive end soon.

[hiyadi]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

i agree with the op, my center get blocked twice by an small pg in my park. my dunk rating is 94 with jordan pack ! i mean if big men stops me fine but let me dunk on small pg with low block rating.

i also managed to block centers multiple time with my 6'2" sg in the middle of their dunk...

it's too unrealistic can you imagine Blake griffin get blocked by tony parker !

[MeloNYK7]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

blocks are ridiculously fake. hundred people swapping with no foul calls which result in unrealistic blocks and too any missed dunks

[Goffs]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

Patch 4 here we come!

[wimp14]

Re: Blocks are ridiculous!

Blocks are beautiful in this game. I most admitted the recovery window is way too large. Sometime I will let a guy beat me just to recover and block the shot.

[Sundown]

Blocks are ridiculous!

Patch 4 here we come!

I certainly hope the only thing preventing ridiculous shooting percentages wasn't overpowered chasedown blocks. Then we might have much bigger issues with defense as a whole.

Patch 4 happened because shooting was given a way-out-of-reality open make percentage that doesn't match NBA statistics, combined with a cheesy automatic green mechanic. Not because something was toned down to match simulation expectations.

In fact 2K15 didn't have overpowered chase down blocks or perimeter bumping before patch 4, so the cheese patch has ZERO to do with fixing a defensive aspect of the game to be sim.

Come on guys. We're supposed to be sim nation. I think we should have higher standards than "I don't care if it's closer to NBA Jam but it's fine don't break defense!" I'm actually quite surprised the defense that unrealistic rocket chasedown blocking is getting, as well as the perimeter warping and bumping by weak defenders from those who are supposed to be the champions of simulation authenticity.

We need to be asking for much more from our defense than inflated counting stat actions like blocks and first line defense like bumping. That's for casuals. We need to be asking for proper AI behavior and fixing it in places where it regressed. That's simulation defense, which will lead to simulation offense.