3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

[stillfeelme]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

Its to easy to shoot again. A slight up in 3 was all that was needed not this big of a change. It must be a hard thing to balance. I was getting green jumpers with Dwight Howard. I prefer yesterday over this, if there is no middle ground. 80 plus 3 point guys should be from 35 to 45 percent on Wide Open 3s.

Oh wow haha I guess 2k18 then

[Beluba]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

If you guys can get some games in with today's update, I'd like to know how shooting compares for you between today and previous to yesterday. I suspect it's going to feel very similar (i.e. too easy). The tuning is teetering around a breaking point. The slightest nudge makes greens way too easy or way too hard. It's a limitation of the way 2K17 is setup and very frustrating to tune. It may seem like I'm making drastic changes but I'm literally nudging the numbers by minuscule amounts. It's just those minuscule changes yield severe end results.

Many of you are absolutely right in that automatic greens are the cause of all the issues. That's one of my biggest regrets and something I will correct in 2K18. But for now, I'm experimenting with a new workaround. Hopefully early this week I can do one last update to mitigate the abundance of greens for the rest of 17's run.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

If you guys can get some games in with today's update, I'd like to know how shooting compares for you between today and previous to yesterday. I suspect it's going to feel very similar (i.e. too easy). The tuning is teetering around a breaking point. The slightest nudge makes greens way too easy or way too hard. It's a limitation of the way 2K17 is setup and very frustrating to tune. It may seem like I'm making drastic changes but I'm literally nudging the numbers by minuscule amounts. It's just those minuscule changes yield severe end results.

Many of you are absolutely right in that automatic greens are the cause of all the issues. That's one of my biggest regrets and something I will correct in 2K18. But for now, I'm experimenting with a new workaround. Hopefully early this week I can do one last update to mitigate the abundance of greens for the rest of 17's run.

Thanks for the response

Really looking forward to that feat in 2k18. The game really felt more like basketball with less green releases. A lot more actually.

[Jrocc23]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

Its to easy to shoot again. A slight up in 3 was all that was needed not this big of a change. It must be a hard thing to balance. I was getting green jumpers with Dwight Howard. I prefer yesterday over this, if there is no middle ground. 80 plus 3 point guys should be from 35 to 45 percent on Wide Open 3s.

I am pretty sure he just put it back to what's it's been for awhile now. I would be surprised if he changed the slider to something completely different.

I believe it should be lowered a small amount but yesterday was terrible and the first time I really agreed w/ all the people complaining about missing.

People that did enjoy it seemed to like that a lot of people had to change up their game because this isn't what they was used to or how they made their player.


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[EarvGotti]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

If you guys can get some games in with today's update, I'd like to know how shooting compares for you between today and previous to yesterday. I suspect it's going to feel very similar (i.e. too easy). The tuning is teetering around a breaking point. The slightest nudge makes greens way too easy or way too hard. It's a limitation of the way 2K17 is setup and very frustrating to tune. It may seem like I'm making drastic changes but I'm literally nudging the numbers by minuscule amounts. It's just those minuscule changes yield severe end results.

Many of you are absolutely right in that automatic greens are the cause of all the issues. That's one of my biggest regrets and something I will correct in 2K18. But for now, I'm experimenting with a new workaround. Hopefully early this week I can do one last update to mitigate the abundance of greens for the rest of 17's run.

Thanks for all of your effort Mike. I played a couple games this morning and yes it is way too easy to get greens again...like before the tuner. It would be great if you could lower the number of greens but still keep white bar(open shots) falling at a good percentage.

Because the way the game feels now, its either Green or Bust. I would lean towards yesterday's tuner if i had to choose between the two. I know people on Twitter will complain, but better to get them used to it now than to have a ton of complaints about 2K18 when it first comes out.

[stillfeelme]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

If you guys can get some games in with today's update, I'd like to know how shooting compares for you between today and previous to yesterday. I suspect it's going to feel very similar (i.e. too easy). The tuning is teetering around a breaking point. The slightest nudge makes greens way too easy or way too hard. It's a limitation of the way 2K17 is setup and very frustrating to tune. It may seem like I'm making drastic changes but I'm literally nudging the numbers by minuscule amounts. It's just those minuscule changes yield severe end results.

Many of you are absolutely right in that automatic greens are the cause of all the issues. That's one of my biggest regrets and something I will correct in 2K18. But for now, I'm experimenting with a new workaround. Hopefully early this week I can do one last update to mitigate the abundance of greens for the rest of 17's run.

Thanks for the honest update Beluba, I guess we all realize it is so difficult to please all as a game developer. I respect this this type of interaction. It sounds like the timing release for green can only be edited in a certain stick/button timing ranges. Balancing shooting is like this it seems

[jrose57]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

If you guys can get some games in with today's update, I'd like to know how shooting compares for you between today and previous to yesterday. I suspect it's going to feel very similar (i.e. too easy). The tuning is teetering around a breaking point. The slightest nudge makes greens way too easy or way too hard. It's a limitation of the way 2K17 is setup and very frustrating to tune. It may seem like I'm making drastic changes but I'm literally nudging the numbers by minuscule amounts. It's just those minuscule changes yield severe end results.

Many of you are absolutely right in that automatic greens are the cause of all the issues. That's one of my biggest regrets and something I will correct in 2K18. But for now, I'm experimenting with a new workaround. Hopefully early this week I can do one last update to mitigate the abundance of greens for the rest of 17's run.

please just get a solid change done, don't waste the good patch that was released, many of us r waiting for the final change in this shooting thing so that we can start a new myleague and have the last run for 17

[Baebae32]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

Thanks for all of your effort Mike. I played a couple games this morning and yes it is way too easy to get greens again...like before the tuner. It would be great if you could lower the number of greens but still keep white bar(open shots) falling at a good percentage.

Because the way the game feels now, its either Green or Bust. I would lean towards yesterday's tuner if i had to choose between the two. I know people on Twitter will complain, but better to get them used to it now than to have a ton of complaints about 2K18 when it first comes out.

I agree with this. Let them complain now. So their minds can somewhat adjust to how 18 is going to play over the next few months. They'll get to used to whatever change you make Mike. Theyll just harass you about it first lol

[rossi45]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

I am pretty sure he just put it back to what's it's been for awhile now. I would be surprised if he changed the slider to something completely different.

I believe it should be lowered a small amount but yesterday was terrible and the first time I really agreed w/ all the people complaining about missing.

People that did enjoy it seemed to like that a lot of people had to change up their game because this isn't what they was used to or how they made their player.


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Do you know what percentage shooting was yesterday? The way you describe it, it sounds as if it was not possible to hit a three ball besides the corner. This is just a total lie and I cant even imagine why people seem to think its normal that you can shoot green from everywhere as long as you are open for a split second, thanks to a brickwall or other. Shooting yesterday was hard for sure, but if you would have looked up the percentages at the end of the day, they still were in the 60s for a sharp and 50s for shotcreator and playmaker from top of the key and that seems pretty reasonable.

[Leasim96]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

I agree with earv - if the direction we are heading in is to eliminate greens (which i agree with) - the green frequency should be decreased - but white/open shots should increase slightly. That way atleast it's not a guaranteed make. But people can't complain because shots are still falling.

Furthermore though - atleast for me the main annoyance this year have been badges like limitless range. It just makes the game feel cheap too see people constantly knocking these very deep shots. It creates A LOT of floor spacing and pressure on the defense. Which with bad random teammates - is not easy to defend - and results in it looking too easy. If these shots would fall less often then atleast the gamestyle of most of the community would change to a more sim oriented experience. It would force people to pass more and encourage teamwork.

Which a lot of us saw yesterday and it was a great feeling.

Normal 3s are atleast an easier ground to cover - but when you add stuff like 2 limitless range sharpshooters coupled with brick wall (which is OP) - it just becomes a hassle to defend with randoms. If these shots fall less i would be happy.

There are certainly more issues - but this is the thing that annoys me the most. It just feels cheap.

Things like HOF badges have created the mentality that your player is ENTITLED - to dominate. And this is a very toxic mentality. And enforces the behaviour from people that harass mike on twitter. Because you gave them bragging rights to complain. It should go. Just stick with gold. Or just improve the archetype system so people don't feel entitled because it's the only thing they can do - they believe just because their archetype is a shooting specialist - they are entitled to make every shot.

[Leasim96]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

Do you know what percentage shooting was yesterday? The way you describe it, it sounds as if it was not possible to hit a three ball besides the corner. This is just a total lie and I cant even imagine why people seem to think its normal that you can shoot green from everywhere as long as you are open for a split second, thanks to a brickwall or other. Shooting yesterday was hard for sure, but if you would have looked up the percentages at the end of the day, they still were in the 60s for a sharp and 50s for shotcreator and playmaker from top of the key and that seems pretty reasonable.

I'm a lockdown and yet i still was making about 45% of my open 3s in park and pro am - if i was making 3s - then i don't get how they aren't. The problem here is they think they are entitled to make every single shot.

Change your jumpshot or mentality maybe. But don't just say nobody could shoot - the thread of vote here on OS on shooting agreed with the change by a big margin. That just shows the majority here doesn't feel that way.

[Man2ManD]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

Definetely shooting is too easy now. Sharpshooters are back at the zig zag again. Yesterday people were moving the ball, even some lockdowns I played with made corner 3s and even I got some touches inside with my paint protector.

Now I feel like I play only to set screens, people dont pass around they only try to get that little space to shoot. I've got bored of being a mere spectator and quit the game.

[Jrocc23]

3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

Spoiler

Do you know what percentage shooting was yesterday? The way you describe it, it sounds as if it was not possible to hit a three ball besides the corner. This is just a total lie and I cant even imagine why people seem to think its normal that you can shoot green from everywhere as long as you are open for a split second, thanks to a brickwall or other. Shooting yesterday was hard for sure, but if you would have looked up the percentages at the end of the day, they still were in the 60s for a sharp and 50s for shotcreator and playmaker from top of the key and that seems pretty reasonable.

Spoiler

No. I don't know the percentages exactly and I am pretty sure you don't either. If you do, how do you know what the percentages were?

I just went to MyCourt and shot about 200 shots on HOF and then on SS. From what I've seen, I could green corners. It wasn't as easy as it was but it was possible. Anywhere else it wasn't possible to green at all and was mostly full bars because I know my release. And I didn't track them all but I remember looking at one point and it was like 5/20 or something. Most of the time the white bar means off for me. Not once did I say it was impossible to hit a 3 from somewhere else if you wasn't a Sharp but I will say is I believe it was most likely off and I definitely would have stopped taking 3s period at the top of the key or wings if he kept it how it was. How it was yesterday it just wasn't a smart shot open or not.

I then went to the park to look and play about 2 games. Most people that didn't shoot in the corners were off. I literally wouldn't even guard a playmaker if they was at the top of the key because when they shot it was off which made it so much easier guarding playmakers.

If players they was making them anywhere else besides the corner. I would look up their name and they was a Sharp or stretch. The games I've played, I didn't shoot much from anywhere besides the corner because I knew it would most likely be off. The few I tried about 4? I made one that barely went in and hopped off and waited for the update.

Mike is saying what I've been saying, it's very little he can do w/ how this game is setup. It's very easy to see that.

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[rossi45]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

If you guys can get some games in with today's update, I'd like to know how shooting compares for you between today and previous to yesterday. I suspect it's going to feel very similar (i.e. too easy). The tuning is teetering around a breaking point. The slightest nudge makes greens way too easy or way too hard. It's a limitation of the way 2K17 is setup and very frustrating to tune. It may seem like I'm making drastic changes but I'm literally nudging the numbers by minuscule amounts. It's just those minuscule changes yield severe end results.

Many of you are absolutely right in that automatic greens are the cause of all the issues. That's one of my biggest regrets and something I will correct in 2K18. But for now, I'm experimenting with a new workaround. Hopefully early this week I can do one last update to mitigate the abundance of greens for the rest of 17's run.

Thanks for replying!

If I'd have to choose (beeing a competitive Park and Pro am Player, who loves SIM ball) between the sliders we had yesterday and the sliders we have now, which seem to look pretty close to what they have been the last months also, I would definitely choose the sliders yesterday.

Reasons for this are
1. The shooting from far out is too easy if you leave it as it was months ago, and also as it is today ( as mentioned in my previous post). too easy greens from limitless range, to easy greens in general with players rated in the 70s.
- haven't played a player rated 58 for three with the newest sliders, but in my court I was able to green them again which is a sign to me that its near the same as it was before patching.

2. The inside and midrange game got much bigger role thanks to the slider update yesterday.
Pro am suffered so hard of having the sliders set to a point where its green as soon as there is a split second openness, even for archetypes with low shooting.
Now archetypes with inside scoring abilities can compete much better which helps the balance in general.



Suggestion for tuning if its possible to tune it that way.

1. Limitless range shots should be green ONLY for sharpshooters, and also only when they are hot.
This would prevent a lot of cheese in park and pro am.
Other archetypes such as shot creators and playmakers should not be able to green limitless range shots with their ratings.

2. Shots on the line from 3 should also be "greenable" for playmakers and shotcreators. I'd prefer it to be only to be green, when they get how which equals a 5-10 rating boost which would bring this 2 archetypes into 80s rated shot.
80 should be like a mark to aim, when it comes to greening shots from top of the key.

3. all other archetypes should not green the 3 - ball from top of the key.

4. low rated shooters with ratings from 60 and lower should be able to green the 3 from the corner, I'd prefer see corner greens from this archetypes only when they got hot. "65 rating should be the mark for being able to green, as it is in point NR.2 for the top key part.

5. The shots that are not able to be greened should go in in a slightly higher clip for all archetypes above the 70s shooting mark.

6. THIS IS IMPORTANT I THINKI don't know for sure, but it felt like floaters changed a bit. I would leave them as they were before tuning. After playing even more now, I am even more concerned that something has changed with the floaters.

These are my suggestions to shooting

[Breakstarter]

Re: 3pt Shooting has been Tweaked(Feedback Thread)

If you guys can get some games in with today's update, I'd like to know how shooting compares for you between today and previous to yesterday. I suspect it's going to feel very similar (i.e. too easy). The tuning is teetering around a breaking point. The slightest nudge makes greens way too easy or way too hard. It's a limitation of the way 2K17 is setup and very frustrating to tune. It may seem like I'm making drastic changes but I'm literally nudging the numbers by minuscule amounts. It's just those minuscule changes yield severe end results.

Many of you are absolutely right in that automatic greens are the cause of all the issues. That's one of my biggest regrets and something I will correct in 2K18. But for now, I'm experimenting with a new workaround. Hopefully early this week I can do one last update to mitigate the abundance of greens for the rest of 17's run.

First and foremost what's up Mike, I respect your work here on 2k and I appreciate how you always comeback to the forums to check in on us loyal fans. With that being said..

Mike....what part of green releases do you believe is skill based? I don't think it's really rocket science in a video game to press the shoot button and be rewarded for knowing your release timing on an open shot. Playing this morning after this tweak, I'm only hitting greens when my sharpshooter is on fire. There was nothing wrong with the way it was 3 days ago. People who aren't good at the game will moan And complain about other archetypes hitting 3's but let's be honest, people have gotten used to the way this game plays for like 6 months, now is not the time to be changing shooting. Shooting was good enough for 2k to showcase it's brand for the Road to the Allstar Tournament for $250,000, so it should have stayed that way for the remainder of the year. It wasn't broken. MIke, let's keep things in perspective..you're literally pressing one button to shoot. People of all ages and skill sets play this game. Why are you making it so that if you're wide open and know your shot that it doesn't go in and confirm green letting the user know that if he/she is wide open that you reward them with a guaranteed bucket? (Yes i know there are no guarantees in life)This is a video game where we have fun...not real life. My player plays in a different space than the actual NBA. If you want people bricking shots, leave that for all those other modes that feature NBA players. When it comes to my players and online play, let us have fun. These nerfs and restrictions year in and year out are debilitating to the user fan base of have grown tired of seeing this game become an annual beta test with increasing amount of patches. I know the patches are for the community, but I truly believe these patches that address certain game modes affect players differently.

For example, if you want to patch shooting for pro am, why not when loading into walk on pro am mode while the loading screen appears post a poll asking whether or not people who play this mode want shooting tweaked? Or maybe in my park mode, if dribbling needs a buff, or if defense needs to be tweaked, have it pop up during that long loading time. This way you tweak specific game modes without affecting the entire community. When you say shooting is being tweaked, offline gamers, park players, play now players and pro am players are affected as a whole and to me that isn't fair. We all play this game to have fun, but how we play each game mode is totally different. I just hope that you to take this into consideration moving forward because it will make a better product if everyone who plays this game for different game modes are given the proper attention and respect when it comes to making adjustments to the modes that they play.

Thank you for your time and much respect.